Are Anderson PowerPole connectors the de-facto standard?

[TNC]

A key element in soldering to XT90's is not only inserting the male/females together, the soldering must take place quickly.

I use a 100W soldering iron, and the job is done rapidly. If I used a weaker soldering iron, I might be forced to hold the hot iron onto the socket for a longer amount of time.

It's the length of time that allows the heat to travel up into the plastic...

Totally agree. I bought a bag of good XT90's to practice with before building my first backpack/battery length power cable...having never worked with XT90 connectors. After finding out what method melted or deformed the connectors, it came down to your description here. Fast, strong heat and having the connectors plugged into each other. The units plugged into each other kind of acted a little like a heat sink I'm guessing...bigger area with less overall effect on the yellow plastic...if that makes sense. I think the quality of the solder and wire used is critical too. With the price of good copper wire, it's tempting to go a little cheaper on the wire and its insulation. Get good wire and solder.

 

[Chalo]

A key element in soldering to XT90's is not only inserting the male/females together, the soldering must take place quickly.

I use a 100W soldering iron, and the job is done rapidly. If I used a weaker soldering iron, I might be forced to hold the hot iron onto the socket for a longer amount of time.

It's the length of time that allows the heat to travel up into the plastic...

Totally agree. I bought a bag of good XT90's to practice with before building my first backpack/battery length power cable...having never worked with XT90 connectors. After finding out what method melted or deformed the connectors, it came down to your description here. Fast, strong heat and having the connectors plugged into each other.

Commercial and industrial products use crimped connectors because they're faster, easier, and more reliable, with fewer modes of failure.

If there were a crimped XT90, I'd try it. As it is, I'm only too happy to leave that stuff to people who play with toy cars and planes.

 

[TNC]

Chalo, that's an interesting take on this issue. I take you as a fairly technical guy as far as soldering is concerned. Maybe I'm missing your point in your comment. Are you against soldering for some reason?...or something else? My setup for my 48" cable for my backpack has been very sturdy and reliable, even after getting unplugged in a crash or step-off. I've kept an eye on the soldered points since this is my first XT90 exposure. They show no signs of flex or fatigue so far, but I did make it a point to make sure the extraction in an unintended dismount occurs in a straight pull and not at an angle. It seems to me that 10ga quality wire with good solder into the XT90 receptacles is some stout interface. Granted, nothing is indestructible, but even if failure occurs over time, repair or replacement of the connectors is pretty easy. I am carrying a spare 48" cable coiled up in my pack, but this is probably a kind of belt-and-suspenders deal for that. Now, if I were going to Moab or a venue where a super long ride would occur, I would carry the spare cable for sure.

 

[ZeroEm]

Maybe all the years around Autos, not counting the poured battery connections all ends are crimped on. I have used crimpers that were all most as big as bolt cutters. I remember soldering as only for small electronics. He has a point but Still like my Soldered XT90's.

 

[john61ct]

Someone with good experience and skillz can create joins just as good as crimping.

But even a trained monkey can get repeatably perfect crimps with the right tools and supplies.

Soldering can also create an inflexible stress point and allow water / corrosion to creep up from the termination point.

So given a good crimp there is no need to also add solder.

 

[TNC]

Maybe all the years around Autos, not counting the poured battery connections all ends are crimped on. I have used crimpers that were all most as big as bolt cutters. I remember soldering as only for small electronics. He has a point but Still like my Soldered XT90's.

But as Chalo touched on, the motive for crimping in many instances, especially in manufacturing circles, may be driven more by speed and expense than by long term reliability. I'm not sure we can take the fact that an individual or company crimped certain connectors as being the absolute best method. In some cases I think it probably is...like the huge battery cables in many/most automotive applications where soldering would/might be impractical for various reasons. Crimping huge connectors kind of makes sense in many cases, but even then I'm just speculating. At some point, however, the size may dictate that soldering will be superior. Where that is probably has a ton of variables due to wire quality, size, connector design, application, etc., etc.

I claim no expert status here at all, but I've done enough crimping and soldering in automotive, motorcycle, etc. applications to realize that crimping wires/connectors down to a certain size/gauge can bring its own set of issues...and soldering not always the ultimate solution either...too many variables to make absolute, widely varying claims. Crimping or soldering is a pretty interesting and important issue.

 

[Chalo]

Chalo, that's an interesting take on this issue. I take you as a fairly technical guy as far as soldering is concerned. Maybe I'm missing your point in your comment. Are you against soldering for some reason?...or something else?

Soldering heat damages wire insulation and connector housings. It wicks into stranded wire an unpredictable amount and takes away its flexibility. The larger the wire gauge, the bigger the problems with it.

In my early days of building e-bikes, I crimped Powerpoles (badly, with non-Powerpole crimpers) and then flowed solder into the crimps to be more confident of them. When I was connecting heat sensitive things like controllers or LEDs, I used pure indium to solder after crimping. But after getting the correct tools and a consistent technique, I left that nonsense behind. Anymore, almost the only time I solder is when I'm transplanting a BMS or installing sense leads on a pack that's already constructed.

 

[john61ct]

Long term reliability in harsh conditions proper crimping wins hands down no contest.

See Aviation and Aerospace standards, far more stringent of course than automotive, where planned obsolescence rules anyway.

 

[Voltron]

Or the harshest... Ocean sailboat wiring. The repeated pounding, the salt water, wiring all hiding behind cabinets or up the mast, etc... No solder joints allowed on most parts by code.

Wire size can be a problem without the right tools though as the terminals themselves get so stout they're physically hard to crush.

 

[HK12K]

Of note: For crimping to be considered superior, quality crimping tools and connectors must be used.

Don't want anyone assuming that some dollar store crimper and butt connectors are going to be automatically superior to a well soldered connection.

You've gotta pay to play.

 

[TNC]

Of course there are appropriate cases for crimping or soldering, but this thread was about connectors, correct? Is there a way for XT90's to be crimped? I wasn't aware of any, but I'm new to the ebike category. I know one can buy XT90's and some other connectors already equipped with pigtails for crimping, but someone had to solder those pigtails at the connector...those connectors are soldered, aren't they? I'd just as soon it be me who solders my own connectors.

 

[john61ct]

Yes connectors, terminations are either one or the other.

If you want crimped, then the fact those hobby connectors require soldering is a deal breaker.

If you are not willing to pay for the proper crimp tools specific to the connector then choose a different connector.

By making one type your default standard, you are committing to that ecosystem.

 

[spinningmagnets]

The most persuasive arguments that I've heard for crimping came from Luke / LFP. He is well-known for using high amps, and once a joint is heat soaked from the continuous amps, I seem to remember him saying that cheap solder can sometimes flow away during a burst of peak amps.

Of course the size of the wire and the connectors should be robust enough to ensure they don't get that hot under any conditions, but...if you are going to the Bonneville Salt Flats to try and set a record, use fat connectors and crimp them with the proper tool.

That being said...I can't think of an instance when someone posted "I had problems with my ebike because I soldered instead of crimped, it's crimping for me from here out"

What I have heard frequently are complaints about humidity, moisture, and unexpected rains profoundly damaging the ebike and/or the expensive battery. We need more examples of water-proofing, with pictures.

 

[HK12K]

What I have heard frequently are complaints about humidity, moisture, and unexpected rains profoundly damaging the ebike and/or the expensive battery. We need more examples of water-proofing, with pictures.

As far as that is concerned, for my commuter bike which sees a ton of rain I use a potted controller. My batteries are stored inside a sealed job box with a gasketed cover. External connections are all soldered and sealed with marine grade heat shrink, with the exception of throttle and brake which I used Higo's for ease of serviceability should the need arise. Charger input is an xt90 however I do not leave it bare, instead opting to keep another half-connector plugged in, with a loop coming out of the end for easy removal.

My Raptor has it's handy dandy frame to keep water at bay, though I do plan to gasket the side panels one of these days. It doesn't get rained on much anymore though.

 

[ZeroEm]

humidity issues where I live. Watching my motor nuts, motor flange spoke holes and chain (need to wax it more) rust. Will look at my wiring one of these days to see how bad it is. Hope before any issues.

 

[PeteCress]

If there were a crimped XT90, I'd try it.

Which make/model connectors do you use?

 

[PeteCress]

What is the difference between xt90s and xt90h?

Seems like something around "Anti-Spark" where the S (anti-spark?) loses a bit of rated capacity.

My application will never see more than 10 amps at a max of 56 volts.

So, do I care?

 

[ZeroEm]

It's more about the Volts. Plug in at 72-96V and you will understand what they are for.

 

[Chalo]

If there were a crimped XT90, I'd try it.

Which make/model connectors do you use?

I use Anderson PP45 plugs for up to 35A, and PP75 or SB50 for more than that.

 

[Ianhill]

Ive got powerpoles 45amp versions on my chargery i modded it with them been using upto 25amp or 1500w no issues at all been a good charger touch wood.
My bike main used the bigger version housing with the pp50 size lugs and they been good to 225amp but that connector doesn't see alot of use compared to it little brother every charge on all my rides use it.
I had an xlr type barrel fail with a 10amp charger, Ive got a double sided view of the kuberg on one hand its great on the other its in meed of revison from day one on an expensive bike its day light robbery, the motors are pushed hard and priced high to sucker people that lioe to enjoy the bikes for its perceived capability but when it all goes horribly wrong they got you in the pocket £1000 for a motor thats not even ipm ffs.

 

[TNC]

It's more about the Volts. Plug in at 72-96V and you will understand what they are for.

But if the OP is wearing sunglasses as depicted in his avatar pic, will it matter?

 

[ZeroEm]

Need the solar eclipse glasses. 8)

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

Someone with good experience and skillz can create joins just as good as crimping.

But even a trained monkey can get repeatably perfect crimps with the right tools and supplies.

Soldering can also create an inflexible stress point and allow water / corrosion to creep up from the termination point.

So given a good crimp there is no need to also add solder.

Not to ressurect an old thread, but I thought it was better than making a new one.

Do ya'll have links or brands that are the "Good" crimping tools? I'm just using random junk ones bought at resellers or hammer store tools.

 

[john61ct]

If you mean the PowerPole line, the original is best

1309G8 does all three sizes but goes for over $400 unless you luck out on eBay.

If you already have a good frame, DL801K or DL801G are the die sets.

Ideally you find a shop nearby that lets you use them, or pay a bit have them do it.

Among cheap clones, Western Mountain Radio $40 PWRcrimp is OK for consumer occasional use.

Powerwerx sells a clone of that clone about the same price. They do custom cables too.

As do these guys, top notch any terminations

http://www.bestboatwire.com/custom-cables

 

[Chalo]

I've had this one for going on twenty years now, and it continues to please:

http://www.westmountainradio.com/product_info.php?products_id=PWRcrimp

I drip a little dry lube into the crimping die surfaces now and again to keep the crimps from jamming in there. Teflon, moly, graphite are all effective.

P.S. -
I use 45 crimps for even small gauge wires, but I fold the wire tip over, and I crimp first in the 45 socket and then again in the 30 socket.