Arlo has another build ;) 06 BWS 50 (zuma) Hybrid! IT RUNS!

[Arlo1]

Ok guys! I got it running... But youtube wont upload it just freezes. Im posting it on facebook. But I do have some issues big timimg error on the halls I belive. Man they are hard to get right.... This build is a prime canidate for Lebowskis chip!

 

[Arlo1]

Ok I got part of the video to up load. I have to hook up the power differently. The CA is hooked to the other side of the shunt to let me watch charging amps and have my CA count down as it charges... Its a trick methods taught me! But I find it wont let me go full throttle... What do you guys think is it hall timing or...
I mesured the inductance and its 10uH. So I added 45uH to each phase and the total is ~109 uh on my cheep meter (which has proven close enough for now)
[youtube]CZiRIO2A0Qo[/youtube]

 

[Arlo1]

This is a 18 tooth 16 mag motor. Delta wound with all the halls facing the same way 120 mechanical deg apart with the first hall in between phase C and A

 

[Lebowski]

You can use the hex file I send you to burn another 30F chip and use this one to get
information about how good the hall sensors are placed (using the setup menu functions) ?

 

[Lebowski]

great soldering on that alu sidecover, Arlo! :wink:
my respect!

have fun!

same here, man I wish I had the room and some welding skills I'd lock myself in for days at a time

 

[Arlo1]

great soldering on that alu sidecover, Arlo! :wink:
my respect!

have fun!

same here, man I wish I had the room and some welding skills I'd lock myself in for days at a time

Thanks guys but I didnt actuly get to weld this one But I do spend a lot of time at my shop. I am very lucky that my girfriend works 60-80 hours a week. For now. I might try what you said though testing the sensor vs coil position is a good idea.

 

[Arlo1]

I was doing some testing with the scope this morning and i had a hall sensor die so maybe/hopefully that was the problem.

 

[Arlo1]

Ok so I am getting 5 electrical revalutions in 5ms which from my calculations its 7500 rpm. IM am using external inductors which might be causeing the problem i will switch to my lower (15 uH) and try again. But I found all my problemes were two things. Only one hall sensor/phase wire combo gives the hi top speed in either direction... Three work in both directions but only one lets it spin this fast. As for the throttle it was lowering the source voltage to 40-50 volts causeing the charger to be over loaded. SO I hooked up some 20s lipo and bam its working pretty good. But the kv of this motor is 166 from my calculations. Now I need to figure out why IM still 1/2 the rpm. Again this motor is 18 stator teath and 16 magnet pairs. But its pretty dam awesome knowing I made a motor!
[youtube]D8IGEb9DVCM[/youtube] I will take my lazer tach to the shop and do some more testing tonight to verify nothing is off.

 

[Arlo1]

Did some tests. And Tomorow I will reconect one side of the stator to the other in parallel rather then series like it is now. UNLESS somone can tell me the right place to put the halls in a 18 tooth 16 magnet motor and it is different then where I put them. What realy doesn't make sense is only one combination of the halls vs phase wires makes it spin fastest. And there is one good combination for forward and one for reverse that both alow much higher rpm then the other 2 that work in both directions.

 

[bearing]

Nice! I just found this thread. Looking forward to see the progress.

 

[zEEz]

Arlo, don't tell me somebody is really going to drive that thing at 110kmph?
I see a serious issue to incur in self disintegration
Letting alone the road speed limits :wink: : would you believe a speed trap photo
with that 2 weeler doing 110kmph?

have fun and keep us posted! by th way your stator will be casted or lam?

 

[Arlo1]

110 km/h is nothing. its only ~68mph. I have been to 95km/h on my bmx. I plan for a top speed of 110 so there is a buffer. The scooter will only travel 80-90 km/h daily. I have built lots of HI PO scooters I do 3-5 big bores a year. I have done a few gear up kits and with the pipe and big bore the gear up kit will achive 110-115 km/h which is not at all scary to me. I will likely program the controller top speed to ~90km/h when Im done so the system last longer and the batteries do as well.

As for the stator all my tests so far have been .025" think lams with isolation paint but they still get to hot at 10-11500 rpm. So I just got my shipment of iron powerder and hi temp epoxy. Soon I will have a powder core stator to test with.

 

[zEEz]

110 km/h is nothing. its only ~68mph. I have been to 95km/h on my bmx. I plan for a top speed of 110 so there is a buffer. The scooter will only travel 80-90 km/h daily. I have built lots of HI PO scooters I do 3-5 big bores a year. I have done a few gear up kits and with the pipe and big bore the gear up kit will achive 110-115 km/h which is not at all scary to me. I will likely program the controller top speed to ~90km/h when Im done so the system last longer and the batteries do as well.

Yes, I trust you on that ... I was merely jocking :wink: Actually in Italy in the other good days when police
was not so interested in following each scooter passing ... was not uncommon to see a Piaggio CIAO (if you don't
know this model, just take a flimsy constructed pedal bike with 16" tyres and almost no brake + small motor) with
19mm carburator and 90cc big bore motor that could fly 5cm above the road at around 100kmph ...

As for the stator all my tests so far have been .025" think lams with isolation paint but they still get to hot at 10-11500 rpm. So I just got my shipment of iron powerder and hi temp epoxy. Soon I will have a powder core stator to test with.

I hope you have good luck with this method and actually I'm very curious if it is temperature resistant in the long time.
I suspect you will choose a kind of epoxy similar to the special hi-temp used to glue the magnets in the big outrunner
bell ... since I used a bit the metal loaded epoxy by myself, with interesting results, but never when hi-temp was involved
but perhaps the problem is I always used common grade epoxy and no special temp grade!

have fun!

 

[Arlo1]

So lets try something new shal we :wink:
The cool thing is all the coils have 21 turns and 1.2 uH inductance before then after the iron filled epoxy was poured in they went up to 2.0uH I used my inductance meter to match them as well as I could!

 

[John in CR]

Iron filled epoxy is interesting. I've been saving a pint of magnetite the kids had fun collecting at the beach for a motor or wind turbine project.

 

[gor.]

hi, Arlo
cool staff - potentially, depending on pack - no drop of gas on e-mode 4 most short city trips and unlimited range or combined power (boost) - when needed.

how motor connected in drivetrain? do you have pic. under the tranny cover? ice and motor from same throttle control? flip-switch for e-gas-hybr. mode?

 

[Arlo1]

hi, Arlo
cool staff - potentially, depending on pack - no drop of gas on e-mode 4 most short city trips and unlimited range or combined power (boost) - when needed.

how motor connected in drivetrain? do you have pic. under the tranny cover? ice and motor from same throttle control? flip-switch for e-gas-hybr. mode?

Ill get more pics/video as i can. The plan is for the gas motor to always run and the brakes to always apply regen. Then the electric assist will start ~ 1/2 throttle and up so under slow speed the batteries will not be used. As batteries get cheeper things may change! Another cool thing is if either gas or batteries run out the other can be relied on till they are filled back up!

 

[Arlo1]

Ok so I made some progress the cast stator is AWESOME!!! Ok here is what I think is good. Wound in WYE I have 440 rpm/volt its about 2.5x to much. But.... The inductance is 16uH so if I make a new stator at 2x less rpm/v I will have 4 times the inductance. For 64uH. Now the other AWESOME thing is there is very very low drag... I was actually worried so I took a 12v battery and hooked it to one phase just taping one wire on one post and the wheel moves.
Now that I pointed out what I like the braking effect is very low so I think its not efficient enough... Yet So I think I might try to put some sensors in this one and try it at a lower voltage then make another ASAP and add more iron and more turns. As well I will try to find a better manufacturing process.
But so far I am SUPER excited for all this!

 

[Lebowski]

very cool, casting the stator like you did !

 

[Arlo1]

OK so the rpm per volt in WYE termanation is still .7v at 1069 rpm from what I mesured. SO it proves as a pour generator. But I tried to run it anyway to see and this is the only video I have I tread a second try and melted my test leads! It is cool it turns a motor but It is a long way off from useable! I will not be planing to work much on this again for a while because she needs the scooter though the summer and this is the start of my buisy season! I also need to get back to my controller for Colossus!
So we will see how much happens over the next while. It is easy to run tests on I have most the hard things built now so I can pop the electric motor on in about 10 minutes and test it on the stand. [youtube]IqQJoqz2p3I[/youtube]