Astro 3210 group buy?

[MitchJi]

Hi Matt,

When do you need an answer re: a "definite purchase" commitment.

Ditto on the drop dead date.

Would you please check and see if you can include any 8150's? I'm interested in one. Also Tiberius might be interested. He was interested in four 3210's but they are a little underpowered for his application. Miles suggested the 8150, which Tiberius said would be an excellent choice but he said that $500 each was too expensive.

If you can't include any 8150's I guess I should consider a 3220 since the group price is only a little more than the normal 8150 price. My hesitation, other than price, is that the 3220 is too powerful for your reduction unit with a belt. How noisy do you think a 10 turn (67kv) 3220 would be with a 1/2" compared to a similar 8150 (Ithink about 100 kv) using a belt? Would the lower speed cancel out some or most of the noise difference?

 

[recumpence]

Even if you needed to run a #25 chain rather than a belt, the noise is not too obtrusive. If you watch the PK Ripper or Typhoon videos, you will get a feel of the sound.

I would assume a few 8150s thrown in the mix would be OK. I kind of get the impression Bob is just looking for a large order, more so than all 3210s. The reason I am thinking that is because he was very interested in giving the 50 lot price on two lots of 25 spaced as far apart as I wanted those lots spaced. So, my guess is, 18 or 20 3210s, 6 or 7 8150s, and 6 or 8 3220s would excite him just as much as a single order of 50 3210s. I could be wrong about that, though. I will see what he sayd to my email regarding this.

Also, I am thinking one more week to get some firm numbers (motor list) of committed buyers and I will plce the order. Do not have a firm cutoff in mind just now. But, I would think next weekend would be a good time to set aside for the group order to be finalized.

Matt

 

[mud2005]

Hi Matt, I've thought about it and would like to change my order.
I had wanted a 3210, but then you offered the 3220 so I think I'm going to get the 3220.
I would get both if I could afford it, but just can't come up with that kind of cash right now.
Anyway, $550 for a 3220 is just too good to pass up.
I'll take a 10 turn and just need the standard 3 wires out of the case.
Thanks

-mud2005

 

[recumpence]

Remember, the 3220 will be roughly twice the KV per turn of a 3210 (almost twice the KV). So, a 10 turn 3220 is like a 20 turn 3210.

Matt

 

[drewjet]

I don't think the numbers are finalized now, I think it only matters total qty desired. Bigger is better, I would rather have a 8150 or 3220 with 6 wires than a 3210. I will figure out KV once all is decided. But I am definately in for one motor either way.

 

[boostjuice]

Remember, the 3220 will be roughly twice the KV per turn of a 3210 (almost twice the KV). So, a 10 turn 3220 is like a 20 turn 3210.

Matt

Don't you mean half the KV per turn of a 3210?? a 10 turn 3220 would spin at the same speed as a 20 turn 3210 right?

 

[recumpence]

Doh, you got me!

Me brain was wrapped around the thought that the 3220 has twice the laminations as the 3210.

Sheesh, my brain is mush today.

Matt

 

[mud2005]

oh crap here's mud changing his order AGAIN!

sorry Matt, but I'm super indecisive about what I'm going to get, so for now I'm just going to say I don't know yet.

sorry for the inconvenience, I'll let you know later on when it gets close to order time, but for now don't count on my order as I just can't decide

 

[flyinut]

I keep hearing my bike - "More power, MORE POWER!" I'll be going with a 4 turn 3220 instead of the 3210.

Mark W. Dickey
KHYS/KU42

 

[recumpence]

OK Mark.

Astro was due to get back to me by the end of this week. I will call them this afternoon if I do not get an email back today.

Once I get an answer, (assuming it is a "Yes" that my odd mix of motor requests is being honored for a quantity discount) I will finalize the order and get the ball rolling. I do not want to string this along too far out, especially considering it will take a while to get all motors made and distributed.

Matt

 

[liteCycles]

Hi Matt,

Wouldn't the 8150 be a better deal (about $350 at the prices you are quoting) than a 3210? Substantially more power and a lower kv for only about $75 more.

An Astro 3210, 8150,3220 combined group buy might be a better bet. Instead of 50 3210's a total of 50 or 60 motors in mixed sizes. Bob probably makes a little more on an 8150 or 3220 than a 3210 so he should go for it.

If the 8150 is on the table I would go for one of these as well.

6T please.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Matt,

Astro was due to get back to me by the end of this week. I will call them this afternoon if I do not get an email back today.

Once I get an answer, (assuming it is a "Yes" that my odd mix of motor requests is being honored for a quantity discount) I will finalize the order and get the ball rolling. I do not want to string this along too far out, especially considering it will take a while to get all motors made and distributed.

Matt

Once you hit the minimum number it might be better for everyone involved to string out the final number (if possible) until all the motors are built. It seems like there is a pretty good chance of at least five or ten orders trickling in between the time the initial order is placed and the motors are completed. Seems like a win/win/win (Bob sells more motors, Matt sells more motors, more ES members get a good price on an Astro). One issue might be the Anodizing. Maybe orders received after the initial order could be charged the $20 fee or maybe Bob could Anodize a few extra cans when the initial order is placed.

The order will be for 50 motors. I can afford to buy 20 of them myself.

If the order is open ended you might sell a few between receiving the first batch and the completion and be able to add to your own order.

The reason I am thinking that is because he was very interested in giving the 50 lot price on two lots of 25 spaced as far apart as I wanted those lots spaced.

That supports my thought that he wouldn't mind if the size of the second batch is increased and a longer interval means more time for you and others to add orders. If you string the date of the second batch out far enough you might be ready for another 20 yourself .

EDIT ADDITION: Definitely in for either an 8150 or a 3220 (still undecided) and I'm happy to pay in full as soon as it helps. No hurry so I can pay in the first batch and take delivery in the second batch.

 

[johnws6]

I feel like i'm the only one who feels this way but do you guys really need a 6000 watt motor for a bicycle application???

 

[mwkeefer]

Yes at a minimum, more if possible = )_
(u asked)
-Mike

 

[swbluto]

I feel like i'm the only one who feels this way but do you guys really need a 6000 watt motor for a bicycle application???

My dream, back in the day, was at least 4000 watts out so that one could climb a relatively steep hill at least 30 mph. 6000 watts is only a little more than that.

 

[mwkeefer]

Yes at a minimum, more if possible = )_

Everyone in this thread has their own reasons, some are for elite status of RC ebike build, some may want motor for RC use, some want the power to pull hills without slowing down or haul cargo or even to go highway speeds... My reasons are quite simple, hp to weight ratio is directly related to the safety of light vehicles in my mind.

If you think about it... 6000w is really just 8hp of output power, my old gocarts used 8hp motors. A motorcycle (My Katana GSXR 750 is 129.1hp) and weighs in at 359lb - add rider @ 170 and total weight is 529 without any additional cargo. My bikes weigh about 225lb without a load but with rider (me).

This works out to:
Katana 750 HP to Weight: 4.1hp per lb
eBike (6kw) hp to weight: .035 hp per lb
eBike (750w US legal) hp to weight: .0044 hp per lb

Now when comparing power to weight ratios, do things make more sense in grand scheme and scale?

Most people want to cruise along with traffic which means a bike capable of 25-40+ mph, they may not use the available power at all times (I don't) but they will (especially with my terrain/hills) eventually need the extra power (I do).

If you add weight of cargo or anything else (don't forget your helmet, bags, laptop, spare clothes) you further decrease power to weight ratios...

I suppose I want a bike comfortable and efficient at 25 mph but also able to hit 45 top end when needed, I would want more power on tap because if it could be kept streetable... well there's no substitute for being able to "get out of the way of danger" and you need available power to accomplish this. I could never pedal 225lbs of me and bike fast enough to avoid a car coming at me but my bike (when used within it's speed range) is actually quite nimble and easily able to "jump" out of the way as needed. This has saved my bacon on more than one occassion and my top end is only around 3kw now... the issue here becomes not jumping out of the way from a dead stop but at 25mph, being able to jump quickly to 45 to get out of the way.. for that I need higher RPM and more top end power to sustain speeds.

-Mike

 

[liveforphysics]

I feel like i'm the only one who feels this way but do you guys really need a 6000 watt motor for a bicycle application???

If your WS6 username implys you drive an F-body with ~345hp from a 5.7L V8 in a 2 seater passenger car, I would say you've got minimal room to talk about wanting a little more power than would be required to suffice in an application.

 

[mwkeefer]

ws6 - unless you have the bed of the FBody loaded with Lipo and hub motors at all 4 wheels.. luke has a point = )_
-Mike

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I feel like i'm the only one who feels this way but do you guys really need a 6000 watt motor for a bicycle application???

No but I want a more powerful system so I can keep up with the flow of traffic in steep terrain without putting undue stress on the motor and esc. For example a friend rides over a local hill on a bike path that is separated from a 8 lane highway by a metal fence. Its like biking through a waste land. The alternative route is a beautiful tree lined steep winding road. It isn't safe riding up that windy road on a bicycle because he is constantly being caught and passed by inattentive drivers. At 20-25mph (30-40kph) cars couldn't keep up with the bike so he could ride safely on that road. For that one route the option of a bike path exists. For many of the local roads bike path's are not an option.

 

[TylerDurden]

Ws6 could be a contraction of "Wessex"...

 

[flyinmonkie]

It only takes around 8hp to 10hp to maintain highway speeds on a flat for a standard car, but most cars have 90hp to 200hp. Why have so much extra power? If you car only had 10hp, it would take you until you get to your destination to get up to highway speed and you would never get over a mountain pass, let alone up a moderate hill. All that extra power allows you to accelerate up to speed in a safe manor and maintain those speeds no matter what the terrain. It also allows you to carry 3 or 4 extra people and a trunk full of groceries or luggage.

These are the same reasons to have a high power ebike. To make it truly useful, you need to accelerate to you cruising speed in a reasonable and safe time. You need to maintain those speeds over a variety of terrain. You may want to be able to carry extra loads if you are using your ebike as a daily commuter and trying to use your car as little as possible.

Of course there are those that just feel the need for speed. Most major developments in transportation come from racing, pushing the limits and the addition of more power. So whether you condone the extreme application of power or not, those that are using it are pushing the limits and developing the technics and parts that will be the standard of any power build. If they can be used for 6000w, then they will be more than enough and last a long time at 600w.

Keep pushing the bar guys, you are paving the way for the rest of us.

 

[JEB]

I have a Perm 132 dc motor on one of my trikes, from a stop I can draw 6000~watts, but all that gets me is a tire that wears faster, and a head jerk.

I have the trike geared for 20mphr, the steepest hills that I go up the draw is less than 2000~watts.

 

[johnws6]

Lol. I just thought that seemed a little excessive for a e-bike. I have a 3000 watt motor on my pocket bike i built a year or so ago and it does 50 mph. I dont need a pocket bike that does 50 mph, but its just fun i guess. When you guys say something well 6000 watts is just cutting it ,i begin to wonder if you even need peddles anymore? Either way still cool stuff, dont want to hijack the thread. And yes i do have a 02 WS6, its just a summer weekend car.

 

[slowbuild]

Hi Matt,

if the dead line has not expired yet can I order a 6 turn 3220 in black as well as the 3210 10 turn in black
(the last was mentioned in a previous post earlier in the thread).

So to summarize I'm in for

1 3220 a 6 turn in black
1 3210 a 10 turn in black

hope this is ok?

regards

 

[recumpence]

Since Astro has not returned my call from Friday, yes, you can add yours on.

I can continue to take add-ons untill I finalize my order with Astro Flight.

I was hoping to finalize it Friday. But, they must have been swamped that day. So, I have not heard back.

Once I hear from them on making the order somewhat jumbled with many different motor sizes and KVs, (I would assume they aill be OK with it) then I will make a list and give them the list. So, once I hear from them, I will post that it is all good for our mixed group buy. At that point, I will give (most likely) a one day final chance to add to the order, then it will be closed.

However, I will be ordering some extra motors for myself. So, after the cutoff, there will still be a few available.

Matt