Bafang BBS01 CAN throttle not working

[Jakuda87]

Hi,
I have changed controller in my system to CAN.
I have just connected throttle, but it doesn't work
Does it require any special throttle, or is it possible that this functionality is blocked?
I used smth like this:

https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005008201993383.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.41.438c4652s5OiJv&algo_pvid=ad569be0-1a32-457b-a741-892f45981932&algo_exp_id=ad569be0-1a32-457b-a741-892f45981932-40&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%226%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%7D&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21PLN%2114.91%219.69%21%21%2127.35%2117.77%21%40211b804117471334137668720ef9a5%2112000044219458794%21sea%21PL%210%21ABX&curPageLogUid=jFchkPpTtczH&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

and connected to pins 1,2,5 according to:

 

[fechter]

The throttle is analog, so should work. Check the program settings.

 

[Jakuda87]

what settings?
I used to have interface to connect UART controller to computer. But for CAN it's not so easy

 

[aae34]

I'm just guessing here, but perhaps OpenBafangTool might work(for software, idk. about hardware it needs)?

 

[Jakuda87]

Since to moved to CAN protocol it requiers expensive interface, BESSET too and authorised service account.

Bafang BESST Programming Tool

I don't know if this would be useful to anyone who owns the Bafang models in the description, or if it actually does any more than the simpler programming cable already does. But I spotted this on eBay and thought I'd post the link, as it may be something a forum member could use. Bafang BESST...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Going back to throtlle- it should run full speed just my shortening pin 1 to GND? There's no reaction in my case

 

[aae34]

Going back to throtlle- it should run full speed just my shortening pin 1 to GND? There's no reaction in my case

No it should not. Throttles usually work in a range of ~1V-4,2V, so it will require the signal to be
within that range to operate.

edit: the controller firmware might ignore the throttle signal, unless it is plausible when powering on.

 

[Chalo]

Why would you change an inherently simple machine to an unnecessarily complex, less reliable control system if there's no practical benefit in doing so? That's car driver nonsense.

 

[Jakuda87]

ok I read somewhere that when putting magnet to hall sensor it make 0v on output- so connect output to GND.
Now I have 4 or 5volts between VCC and GND, and around 2.5v between VCC and GND, also 2.5 GND and output

 

[Mark Pace]

Why would you change an inherently simple machine to an unnecessarily complex, less reliable control system if there's no practical benefit in doing so? That's car driver nonsense.

Does that mean that you think much more highly of UART than CAN?
AFAIK, CAN is touted as "the latest and greatest" which alone is enough to make it suspect. Plus the experience I've been having with a new CAN-wired motor kit (and the only experience I've had with any) has so far been an abject failure.

 

[TommyCat]

ok I read somewhere that when putting magnet to hall sensor it make 0v on output- so connect output to GND.

That’s in regards to a motor’s hall sensor which is a digital type, or off and on. Remove the short and verify output as follows…

A throttle’s hall sensor gives a linear output from about .8vdc in the home position, to say 3.6vdc at WOT. (Top voltage is dependent on incoming supply voltage.)
So check ground to signal output for these voltages at the different throttle positions. With a smooth ramp up in the middle.

For a deep dive into throttles, se this thread…

Guide to Hall Sensor Throttle operation, testing, and modification. - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum

I would be cautious of the two different VCC voltages, #2 and #6… I would suspect #6 or ORANGE to be full battery voltage.



Regards,
T.C.

 

[Chalo]

Does that mean that you think much more highly of UART than CAN?

No, I prefer the reliability, diagnosability, and serviceability of all-analog system components (outside of the controller's microprocessor anyway). Anything that doesn't help the bike go has no place on my bike.

 

[Mark Pace]

No, I prefer the reliability, diagnosability, and serviceability of all-analog system components (outside of the controller's microprocessor anyway). Anything that doesn't help the bike go has no place on my bike.

As opposed to digital, I guess -- and guess further that most systems & kits, and both CAN and UART, are digital, not analog.
Can you give an example of an [almost] all analog system? Please forgive my ignance; I must admit I don't understand very well most of what makes an ebike work well or not, nor most of the electronic subjects discussed on this forum.

 

[Chalo]

As opposed to digital, I guess -- and guess further that most systems & kits, and both CAN and UART, are digital, not analog.
Can you give an example of an [almost] all analog system?

Dual mode or three mode controller, three wire throttle, enable switch, battery, maybe a voltmeter if range is a critical factor. If I want to know anything else, I have a smartphone that will tell me how far, how fast, cumulative mileage etc.

The last dead/orphaned mid drive I rehabilitated at work, I dug out all the proprietary nonsense and stuck a $15 dual mode controller directly onto the motor phase leads. I added a 48V server rack battery module (to which I added a BMS because I wouldn't be there to supervise the battery), and it became the most brainless mid drive bike I ever saw-- maybe excepting Todd Fahrner's 2003 Xtravois that was the ancestor of Stokemonkey. Push pedals and it goes; push throttle and it pedals for you.

 

[Jakuda87]

That’s in regards to a motor’s hall sensor which is a digital type, or off and on. Remove the short and verify output as follows…

A throttle’s hall sensor gives a linear output from about .8vdc in the home position, to say 3.6vdc at WOT. (Top voltage is dependent on incoming supply voltage.)
So check ground to signal output for these voltages at the different throttle positions. With a smooth ramp up in the middle.

For a deep dive into throttles, se this thread…

Guide to Hall Sensor Throttle operation, testing, and modification. - Electricbike.com Ebike Forum

I would be cautious of the two different VCC voltages, #2 and #6… I would suspect #6 or ORANGE to be full battery voltage.



Regards,
T.C.

gr8 I connected VCC to pin 6 instead 2. It gave 36v to hall sensor and literally ignited it!
All other functionalities are still working though, but I als cannot power off the system- then it shows error code 30

 

[TommyCat]

Wow, what an epic misunderstanding.
The warning was to keep you from using the full battery voltage!

I would be cautious of the two different VCC voltages, #2 and #6… I would suspect #6 or ORANGE to be full battery voltage

Sorry Jakuda87… you should have read the thread link first, which would have made this very clear.

 

[Jakuda87]

right I always ommit smth

what now?

 

[TommyCat]

what now?

The first thing I would do would be to disconnect the damaged throttle, after correcting the wiring back to how you had it.
Then check to see if you have the 5vdc voltage yet from the controller. Pin 2 to ground.

Do we have a language issue, and how are your troubleshooting skills with a multi-meter?

Be sure to have battery disconnected when checking resistances, and when connecting or disconnecting parts connected to the controller.

If you have questions or not quite sure what I mean or describe, be sure to ask first.

I will always advise directly on what and where to check, or what to change.

Good luck.

I’m curious, how are you making these pin/wiring changes anyway?

 

[Jakuda87]

right I always ommit smth

The first thing I would do would be to disconnect the damaged throttle, after correcting the wiring back to how you had it.
Then check to see if you have the 5vdc voltage yet from the controller. Pin 2 to ground.

Do we have a language issue, and how are your troubleshooting skills with a multi-meter?

Be sure to have battery disconnected when checking resistances, and when connecting or disconnecting parts connected to the controller.

If you have questions or not quite sure what I mean or describe, be sure to ask first.

I will always advise directly on what and where to check, or what to change.

Good luck.

I’m curious, how are making these pin changes anyway?

I appreciate a lot your will to guide me.
English is not my native language, but I believe I understand everything.
I know how to use multimeter

-Of course I disconnected burned throttle.
-On pin 2 there's 4.95v

 

[docw009]

As opposed to digital, I guess -- and guess further that most systems & kits, and both CAN and UART, are digital, not analog.
Can you give an example of an [almost] all analog system? Please forgive my ignance; I must admit I don't understand very well most of what makes an ebike work well or not, nor most of the electronic subjects discussed on this forum.

The four wire versions are analog. Battery, Ground, Start, and Outpuit with the following levels. When the 810LED is turned on, the start signal goes to battery voltage. Then the output reads as follows.
1V = PAS 1
2V = PAS 2
3V = PAS 3
4V = Walk mode.

Of course, throttle is analog too, but cadence pedal assist is a digital pulse train. .

 

[TommyCat]

On pin 2 there's 4.95v

This is good.

but I als cannot power off the system- then it shows error code 30

What make and model of display are you using?

If you disconnect the display from the harness and then connect the battery. Do you still have 4.95vdc at pin2?

Glad to help as long as you answer my questions. Thank you for your replies, and patience.

How about this one...

I’m curious, how are you making these pin/wiring changes anyway?

If you have pictures of your system you can share or any other references or information, every little bit helps. (controller replacement link, motor age, ECT.)
I'm very familiar with the Bafang BBS02 with the UART controller, but this seems like an odd pairing.

Oh, and the top link doesn't bring up anything... sold out perhaps? Thumb throttle with 3 wires?

 

[Jakuda87]

I bought OEM controller

The harness:

https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005005663673923.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.17.39672433Zm2VwJ&algo_pvid=8945bd39-9349-4a5f-8e91-83f46b82d96e&algo_exp_id=8945bd39-9349-4a5f-8e91-83f46b82d96e-16&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%2228%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%7D&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21PLN%2133.44%2131.50%21%21%218.61%218.11%21%40211b813f17472633106138330e2c65%2112000033939778718%21sea%21PL%210%21ABX&curPageLogUid=onSqGDoRgko3&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

There' are lot's of resistors or other smd's around LCD connector- so maybe it was tosted first...

 

[TommyCat]

I bought OEM controller

Do you have a link? Why did you choose a CAN bus model that you can't communicate with?

There' are lot's of resistors or other smd's around LCD connector- so maybe it was tosted first...

The sequence of events probably went like this.

The excessive voltage supplied to the throttle's hall sensors integrated circuit made it break down and short to ground.
This created excessive current in the ignition circuit that is enabled thru the display's transistor "ON" circuit that's activated by the "On" button. Thereby causing it to fail and in this instance short in the closed position keeping it "ON" at all times.

The hall sensor was painfully obvious.

The display when opened for inspection will probably reveal similar electronic damage and distress.

Which brings up an important thing to look for... A typical wiring harness is capable of handling a current of 2 amps per wire.
More for a short length of time. As we don't know for sure how many amps were passed and for how long, it would be wise to verify the integrity of each of the individual wires in the harness.

This would be done by checking the resistance of each wire, having one end not connected to anything.
With one probe at the PCB board, and the other at the appropriate pin designation. Verify full continuity between them. And also importantly, check from the same PCB landing or position to all the other pins to make sure they are not shorted together.
Note that some controller points go to more than one pin on purpose, also verity all is well.

Naturally, you could also purchase a new harness... But the controller's wiring would still be suspect and need to be checked.

 

[TommyCat]

The new communication error could easily be the results of the damage incurred...
Bad wiring, bad 5vdc voltage regulators, bad communication electronics, ECT.

 

[Jakuda87]

Do you have a link? Why did you choose a CAN bus model that you can't communicate with?

I was looking for controler on local market for over a year. and I found this one.

I checked the harness, all connections are 1-1, no shorts.
It will be difficult to open LCD there are no screws.