Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

[dumbass]

Thanks aniken for you videos and commentary, I have found them very interesting.

You mention that your drive powers down by itself on occasions. I wonder if this isn't being caused by the "sleep" function causing the unit to shut down after inactivity. The drive might detect activity as being motion detected by the external motion sensor. If you run the drive without the external sensor detecting motion the unit might shut down, just a thought.

From what I can tell when you use the throttle it blocks the signal from the pas (pedal) sensor so the controller or display or whatever 'sees' rider inactivity (or doesent detect 'rider activity' to put it another way.

It seems throttle signal doesn't count as 'rider activity'. This starts the "sleep countdown".
If the controller or display or whatever doesen't get a pedal signal to tell it activity is happening within the alloted sleep countdown period then when the external sensor (speedo) stops giving its signal, the unit turns off. -Phew
Thats what is happening to the best of my knowledge.



In short

I actually do very little peddling and road 15 miles in the local forest preserve the other day at mostly low speeds (10 to 12mph). So the ride took about 1-1/2 hours. My time out *sleep mode" is set for 3mins. My drive never turned off but that's not to say some drives wouldn't. Just as mine seems to have full throttle capability in #1 through #9. But some say this is not how there's works from the manufacture.

I just hate that stupid throttle delay and dead band areas.

Kepler: Did you say the you changed to a standard half twist throttle and it improved the dead bands?

Bob

 

[Gab]

Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

by tomjasz » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:23 am



Kepler wrote:
I got to say though, I see a few cyclone conversions on my commute and I can hear them a mile away. They might be durable but the racket they make is such a deal breaker for me personally.

Thanks for that, I was about to ask why you weren't enamored by them.

I think the noise maybe being blow out of proportion, as if they are as loud as a gas engine bicycle

their is people rideing around with gas engines so the cyclones would be silent in comparison to those Noise is very subjective to personal preference, failures on the other hand are easier to measure. So how much do you sacrifice lower efficiency of helical gears and reliability for lower noise ? When you are going fast and overtakeing everyone on the path ,people will see you if you are silent or not. So the main thing is not rideing like a lunatic around pedestrians and not necessarly being as quiet as road noise.

The amount of noise probably depends on the exact kit also, some Bafang BBs02 kits are quiet and some are noisy with problems as above, probably the same goes for the cyclone kits. Some with worn out gearboxes would be louder then others and some people on the sphere have reported them being a lot quieter with oil in the gearboxes. So you can't say they are all loud and all the bafang kits are quiet.

Also a gear motor is only noisy when you are on the power at high rpm and low load, unlike a petrol engine which is always noisy and you cant stop it. So if you want to be more quiet where their is lots of people around, you can just throttle less power and or less rpm in the gearmotor or peddle more in these times. Even an RC motor would be quiet if you operate like that, High load and low RPM at partial throttle (or current limited to not burn out the motor.)

One thing is for sure the bafang is a very complex design and they have failed the KISS principle to keep it simple, GNG is a better more simple design to service. So even if Bafang do spend the time and improve the many problems it now has on here, it will always be a very complicated custom gear/motor/controller design to repair compared to the cyclone.

 

[maxwell92036]

GBK said that the clicking sound might be from a loose PAS. Easiest way of accessing the PAS?

Thanks!

 

[mclark999]

I'm moving from the HappyTime 2-stroke bicycle world to the electric bike world. Just ordered a BBS02. One thing we all learned in the HappyTime/China girl world is that you should take your motor apart when it arrives and make sure everything is assembled correctly.

For those motors it meant cleaning ports, checking lubrication, adjusting clutches, smoothly heads, replacing bolts... and the list goes on. I did those things and ended up with a very reliable and powerful motor.

Perhaps we could use this thread to start making a list of the items that should be inspected prior to mounting and using the BBS0X.

What would you recommend we check, lube, replace, etc prior to mounting and riding?

 

[maxwell92036]

I opened up a 500 watt motor to remove the nylon gear with clutch, because it was making the dreaded clicking sound. I found two phillip head screws and removed those and found two jacking screw holes. Some other threads have mentioned 3 jacking screw holes. I couldn't find the third one. I tried to remove a triangular rubber piece thinking another screw and jacking screw hole would be under that but it wouldn't come out without tearing it.
Any pictures, advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[teslanv]

I opened up a 500 watt motor to remove the nylon gear with clutch, because it was making the dreaded clicking sound. I found two phillip head screws and removed those and found two jacking screw holes. Some other threads have mentioned 3 jacking screw holes. I couldn't find the third one. I tried to remove a triangular rubber piece thinking another screw and jacking screw hole would be under that but it wouldn't come out without tearing it.
Any pictures, advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

IIRC, the third jacking screw hole is under that rubber cap. Gotta get it out one way or the other.

 

[maxwell92036]

Teslanv,

Thank you!
Got it out!

 

[mriceman]

Hi, For the last few months I have been working on installing a Bafang BDS01[2?]mid-drive to my recumbent trike.At this point I have all parts in place but when I turn power on at first the Display [C961] lights up but then closes down but for Er 30 at the bottom right corner. I am told that this error code indicates a problem with the speed/distance sensor [my manual does not show Er 30 but tells me code 21 is speed sensor abnormality. Because of this problem I am unable to advance the job further. Oh yes, as well, the tiny red diode on the speed/sensor fails to light up. I would love to hear any suggestions ?

 

[Aushiker]

Hi, For the last few months I have been working on installing a Bafang BDS01[2?]mid-drive to my recumbent trike.At this point I have all parts in place but when I turn power on at first the Display [C961] lights up but then closes down but for Er 30 at the bottom right corner. I am told that this error code indicates a problem with the speed/distance sensor [my manual does not show Er 30 but tells me code 21 is speed sensor abnormality. Because of this problem I am unable to advance the job further. Oh yes, as well, the tiny red diode on the speed/sensor fails to light up. I would love to hear any suggestions ?

Are you spinning the wheel when the shut down happens? I found with mine that the wheel actually needs to be spinning to avoid this happening. As to the sensor lighting up. If you bring the magnet closer does it light up then? My first thought would be to check the proximity and of course that everything is properly connected.

Andrew

 

[spechols]

I get ER30 if I use the wrong voltage e.g. using a 36v battery for a 48V BBS02.
Don't really know if this is the answer but it is my experience.

 

[teslanv]

I just started a new thread to document fault occurrences.

Please post your unique fault here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=61108

 

[shanman3us]

Hi, For the last few months I have been working on installing a Bafang BDS01[2?]mid-drive to my recumbent trike.At this point I have all parts in place but when I turn power on at first the Display [C961] lights up but then closes down but for Er 30 at the bottom right corner. I am told that this error code indicates a problem with the speed/distance sensor [my manual does not show Er 30 but tells me code 21 is speed sensor abnormality. Because of this problem I am unable to advance the job further. Oh yes, as well, the tiny red diode on the speed/sensor fails to light up. I would love to hear any suggestions ?

Are you spinning the wheel when the shut down happens? I found with mine that the wheel actually needs to be spinning to avoid this happening. As to the sensor lighting up. If you bring the magnet closer does it light up then? My first thought would be to check the proximity and of course that everything is properly connected.

Andrew

Are you sure you don't have a C963 display? There is an error code 30 for that display as follows:

30 - Communication abnormality in system

It's also possible that they have added that error to newer C961 displays

Shanman3us

 

[tahustvedt]

I got an Er 30 when I accidentally swapped the Tx and Rx pins on my home made cable harness. Probably means controller signal error.

 

[jslabonte]

Hey,

So I just recveived my brand new bbs02 kit from conhismotor.com, and it's making the dreaded clicking/grinding noise.
Can I get your opinions regarding the possible cause of the problem please ? Video here
http://youtu.be/wK3fYWB8Rcc

 

[teslanv]

Hey,

So I just recveived my brand new bbs02 kit from conhismotor.com, and it's making the dreaded clicking/grinding noise.
Can I get your opinions regarding the possible cause of the problem please ? Video here
http://youtu.be/wK3fYWB8Rcc

It may just need more lubrication. My clicking sound was much worse than that.
Pull the cover off the final drive gear and remove it and clean it thoroughly. Check that all the screws on the back side are screwed in tight. Also check for any abnormal wear spots on the interior of that gear & housing. That would indicate it is rubbing on that spot. Grind any spot down with a dremel tool if necessary. Then re-lube it generously with lithium grease and reassemble.
If you want to confirm that its the final gear set making the noise and NOT the primary, you can run the motor without the final gear set installed. The presence of noise will tell you the problem Is in the primary gear set, and you will need to disassemble the motor further. I would be surprised if that is the case, though.

 

[tomjasz]

Hey,

So I just recveived my brand new bbs02 kit from conhismotor.com, and it's making the dreaded clicking/grinding noise.
Can I get your opinions regarding the possible cause of the problem please ? Video here
http://youtu.be/wK3fYWB8Rcc

Please post the serial number and motor data so we can determine when it was built. We should all do that since the sellers aren't forth coming with fail data. We might find patterns.

Thanks!

Tom

 

[teslanv]

Hey,

So I just recveived my brand new bbs02 kit from conhismotor.com, and it's making the dreaded clicking/grinding noise.
Can I get your opinions regarding the possible cause of the problem please ? Video here
http://youtu.be/wK3fYWB8Rcc

Please post the serial number and motor data so we can determine when it was built. We should all do that since the sellers aren't forth coming with fail data. We might find patterns.

Thanks!

Tom

Yes. Please post it here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=61108

 

[teslanv]

All,

For reference, Here is what a "GOOD" drive sounds like.

[youtube]UQpDsmR764E[/youtube]

Note that the initial popping or crackling sound on this video is actually the moly grease sticking to itself and balling up on the small gear. It goes away in a few seconds, once the grease has vacated the gears enough.

 

[jslabonte]

Thank you for the pointers Teslanv, very much appreciated.

But, since english is my secondary language, and I'm pretty visual, can you confirm that what you have disassembled in the "normal" bbs02 video if what you call the "final drive gear" ?

Also, how does one pull out the gear ?

Thank you so much.

*edit*: Don't worry guys, once I have corrected the problem, I will update the "problem" threads with all the relevant information.

 

[teslanv]

Yes, the large Gear you see in the video above is the "Final" gear. I believe you need to remove a "Circlip" on the opposite side of the crank shaft. You should then be able to fully remove the Final Gear/Shaft and inspect.

For the record, I used a clear or honey-colored grease called "Slick Honey" on the roller bearings of the main shaft when I reassembled it.

 

[maxwell92036]

Final gear is removed by unscrewing the nut on the non drive side part of the bottom bracket. I used a flat bladed screw driver and a hammer to unscrew it. Under that is a washer and seal and another nut. It will slide right out. Just make sure your bearings and retainers go back in the same order and direction that you took them out. The bottom bracket uses needle and ball bearings. When I put them back together I added some grease, since there wasn't any in there.

 

[jslabonte]

I've been stuck on removing the c-clip for 2 hours now.
I'm so mad I bought that P.O.S. motor.
I'll need to wait tomorrow to go to the hardware store to buy a c-clip plier.

 

[Kepler]

Hey,

So I just recveived my brand new bbs02 kit from conhismotor.com, and it's making the dreaded clicking/grinding noise.
Can I get your opinions regarding the possible cause of the problem please ? Video here
http://youtu.be/wK3fYWB8Rcc

Did you actually try the drive in a bike? It doesn't sound too bad to me. Most of the noise just seems to be some gear overrun chatter due to there being no load on the drive.

 

[skuutti]

Hey,

So I just recveived my brand new bbs02 kit from conhismotor.com, and it's making the dreaded clicking/grinding noise.
Can I get your opinions regarding the possible cause of the problem please ? Video here
http://youtu.be/wK3fYWB8Rcc

Did you actually try the drive in a bike? It doesn't sound too bad to me. Most of the noise just seems to be some gear overrun chatter due to there being no load on the drive.

I thought the same. Do not jump into any conclusions before you have actually installed the motor first and given it few miles. The gears mesh properly only when there is some load. Also the motor being on the table like that will exaggerate all the noises.

 

[jslabonte]

Hello again,

I was wondering If a very generous soul could pin point very precisely (in a picture!) the location of the the place where loctite should be applied (rotor shaft ??). I'd like to do it correctly, and I promise to use this information to help others while documenting my own problem.

Thank you, you guys are great!