rheo
1 mW
would this little motor benefit from an upgrade to a phaserunner motor controller from the 20A Sinweave Grinfineon Controller I am currently using?
Bafang G310 geared hub - 11:1 reduction ratio!!!
- Thread starter neptronix
- Start date
zacksc
100 W
I'm not an expert, but I would say: yes, but you would only need a baserunner, not a phaserunner, due to the low power. The smaller baserunner.rheo said:
Tommy L
100 kW
I just purchased this for a donor bike
My Ebikes.ca cart has the wheel build for a fat 190mm with the Bafang MG60.
I love running high voltage. Will this geared motor handle 2kw? At 72v on the Grin site 30amps@72v
Is around 2100watts Of heat and 38mph speed.
I can limit my CA to 10amps @72v 720 watts and still do 27-33 mph which is fine.
So I’ll need the Phaserunner for the higher voltage but which one????
And what can Grins Bafang handle in watts???
Thank you
Tommy L sends.
My Ebikes.ca cart has the wheel build for a fat 190mm with the Bafang MG60.
I love running high voltage. Will this geared motor handle 2kw? At 72v on the Grin site 30amps@72v
Is around 2100watts Of heat and 38mph speed.
I can limit my CA to 10amps @72v 720 watts and still do 27-33 mph which is fine.
So I’ll need the Phaserunner for the higher voltage but which one????
And what can Grins Bafang handle in watts???
Thank you
Tommy L sends.
Tommy L
100 kW
No worries.....
I ordered BBSHD today and Tesla cells.
Now I need a cell welder.
I ordered BBSHD today and Tesla cells.
Now I need a cell welder.
I'm considering this motor for a cargo bike of around 130kg loaded. I'm only experienced with mid-drives so I've been reading up about hub motors and it sounds like most people run them with a throttle and at high speed. I'd be using a torque sensing bottom bracket and expect to contribute a reasonable human effort. Limiting the motor to something like 500w could I expect it to help haul me up hills at low speed for an hour at a time without self-destructing?
goatman
10 MW
famichiki said:
have you seen rswannabe thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=103634
goatman said:
Thanks, no I hadn't seen that and it looks like an interesting project. Although the GMAC motor seems to be a little larger and heavier, and I'm trying to find the least obtrusive motor as possible and at least give the appearance of adhering to 250W regulations. But I see varying info about the G310 being 250W or 350W nominal, are there any markings on the motor to substantiate that in case I need to prove it?
goatman
10 MW
famichiki said:
my son has a g310 standard, its fine for him, he is 12yrs old. i dont know about 300lbs in hilly terrain. gmac has good regen braking. i dont think the cops are going to bug someone on a cargo bike going slow, especially if you have rear panniers hiding the motor.
heres another thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=102098&p=1581267&hilit=gmac#p1581267
goatman said:
It looks like the GMAC is worth investigating further too. So far my only experience is with the TSDZ2 mid-drive, so I'm trying to work out just what's possible with these small geared hub motors.
More of a general question, it looks like it's possible to run most hub motors on the voltage of your choice. Is it a simple task to switch between battery types? So if I had a travel bike I could potentially use a 52V battery around town, then switch to 36V LiGo packs for trips away?
goatman
10 MW
if you got a phaserunner its easily programmable with a laptop , 36v, 48v,52v,72v, whatever amps you want from 10 to 60 amps, you can use your smart phone with a cable to program it out on the road also, program regen. its waterproof. im a big fan of the phaserunner
The Phaserunner looks great. After further research I now understand a lot more about the capabilities of hub motors. They seem like a much neater and more practical solution so I'd still like to play around with one. But perhaps sticking with a mid-drive might be best for this bike so now I need to start a new project. 
ZeroEm
1 MW
These are great little motors but don't push the power to much the plastic gears will not take and high speed the magnets like to come off, grin will re-glue them for higher rpm. 700 watts should be max not continuous. Have one on a delta trike cruses 3-400 watts pull hills at 700 watts, has been great, did not set it up to be a high use trike. I'm heavy and try not to ride it very much.
Timveldhuis
1 µW
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2020
- Messages
- 4
What is you opinion on the G310 versus the Q100CST or Q128CST? All slowest wind as possible, as I'm looking for some assistance up slight hills with 29" wheels.
justin_le said:1N4001 said:Cool! My goal of running 1200W through this motor might be achievable after all
At high speeds (50+ kph) it's actually pretty realistic to continuously do ~1200 watts of input power, ~1000 watts of output power, with the motor in the 20-22 Nm torque range. 1200 watts at lower speeds like 25-30 kph requires a motor torque that is quite near the mechanical limits of the plastic gears.
Glued to the windings right here.
G310ThermistorLocation.jpg
You can also see how easy it is in general to pass through some extra sensor wires beside the main motor cable once you disassembly the motor remove the wire side axle stub. Then it's just a straight line diagonal hole and you can use a jewelers scredriver or similar to make space beside the phase cable to tuck the temperature signal wires beside it.
The normal method that I use to measure the drag with Statorade testing in a direct drive motor is by measuring the no load current draw of the hub motor. That doesn't work as directly in a geared motor since it includes all the core losses which wouldn't be present when you are just pedaling the hub with no power. In this particular case, the no load power consumption decreased rather than increased with the addition of ATF. For instance at 350 rpm with no fluid, the unloaded current was 1.18 amps. After adding 50mL of transmission fluid, it dropped to 1.03 amps.
I can only conclude that the oil in the motor has washed out and dissolved much of the bearing grease and gear grease, lubricated the shaft seals, and that this more than offset the additional viscous drag caused from the oil sloshing around.
I did my usual trick of drilling one of the disk bolt holes all the way through and then used a syringe to inject it after the motor had been reassembled, and closed that hole with a small M5 bolt while the tests were underway.
G310DiskHoleDrilled.jpg
G310InjectingATF.jpg
If I was doing this on a bike and not needing to incrementally add small amounts of fluid for the sake of knowledge and science, I'd just open up the side plate, pour in the fluid, then screw the side plate back in place. The motors open up this way quite easily, and you don't have to worry about resealing the side cover since there is an o-ring around the perimeter of the side plate that seals it for you.
G310ORing.jpg
Surprisingly and pleasantly there has been zero leakage at all yet, with about 35 hours of cumulative running so far. But the motor is just upright and not bouncing around like it would on an actual ebike, If you tilted it on it's side I'm sure it would leak right through the cable exit since I made no special effort to seal that after passing through the themistor wire.
Still, the fact that there's been any leakage visible on the wind tunnel is really promising that the stock shaft seals and O rings on the G310 motor are gonna be up to the task.
I'm really interested in this too. The only reason that I'm using the transmission fluid for this thermal characterization is because I had some on hand from previous motor experiments not because its necessarily the best suited for long term rubber/chemical compatibility. For that it's been suggested that a lightweight pure synthetic gear oil would be more appropriate than whatever concoction of chemicals goes into ATF.
So don't consider these results as some endorsement of ATF in particular. I think all cooling fluids would perform almost exactly the same thermally. Then there's a separate task to see of all the liquids out there which ones can be safely poured into a hub motor with the least adverse affects on the gears, ball bearings, wire insulation, rubber seals etc.
That's not something I plan to do but am hoping that armed with this test info, others will be encouraged to try things out and report back if they notice any compatibility issues in the long term.
I am curious how ATF worked out.
In this thread we have someone quoting a German forum and claims that ATF eats wiring, then fork oil eats wiring and in the next sentence correlates fork oil with mineral oil. Seems to me fork oil has a range of formulations.
I had planned to use mineral oil, aka paraffin oil, also used as transformer oil for dielectric and non reactive properties around electrics with a few percent PTFE (and maybe <1% MoS2) in the little G311.
Thoughts?
I have never heard a single report of ATF in a geared motor being successful long term.
There's always rave short term reports.
Typically the issue is that it can eat at plastic wires and other materials in the motor.
There's always rave short term reports.
Typically the issue is that it can eat at plastic wires and other materials in the motor.
A series of experiments could be performed using broken geared hub motors. If you were to ask the members of this forum, i bet you could come up with a hundred broken motors at the cost of shipping.
You could then ask for donations for silicone, mineral oil, etc etc in the name of science. Fill a broken motor with each type of oil, and let these motors sit for 6 months, spinning the axle once a month so that the oil circulates.
After 6 months you would have discovered some changes inside each motor and could provide before/after photos to the forum.
I feel that we should have some kind of ebike science fund to figure this out, in the absence of proper information on each oil which would determine capability with various materials - copper, plastic, nylon, aluminum, stator enamel, magnets, etc.
What would be the ultimate thing is to find the ideal material that would work in a MAC motor. Because it has the strongest gears of any geared motor. It could be made into a 1.5-2kW continuous motor with proper heat shedding.
A bafang G310 could likely handle 800w all day with the right cooling.
You could then ask for donations for silicone, mineral oil, etc etc in the name of science. Fill a broken motor with each type of oil, and let these motors sit for 6 months, spinning the axle once a month so that the oil circulates.
After 6 months you would have discovered some changes inside each motor and could provide before/after photos to the forum.
I feel that we should have some kind of ebike science fund to figure this out, in the absence of proper information on each oil which would determine capability with various materials - copper, plastic, nylon, aluminum, stator enamel, magnets, etc.
What would be the ultimate thing is to find the ideal material that would work in a MAC motor. Because it has the strongest gears of any geared motor. It could be made into a 1.5-2kW continuous motor with proper heat shedding.
A bafang G310 could likely handle 800w all day with the right cooling.
I've already spent USD400 in freight on this build. 
More for small parts and materials.
I'm just not that into it. Relying on the collective who are I'd have thought it would have all been tried and results in after two years.
Low power system btw... I already own motorcycles.
More for small parts and materials.
I'm just not that into it. Relying on the collective who are I'd have thought it would have all been tried and results in after two years.
Low power system btw... I already own motorcycles.
Well.... I'd pay you $25 to test transformer oil and report back.
Some reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_oil
Transformer oil can be stored in plastic containers so i imagine that it is not a threat to the gears or wiring sheaths.
Some transformers contain plastics and wood inside.
So i would guess you are on to something.
Some reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_oil
Transformer oil can be stored in plastic containers so i imagine that it is not a threat to the gears or wiring sheaths.
Some transformers contain plastics and wood inside.
So i would guess you are on to something.
