Bazaki first E-bike

[Bazaki]

Hi All,

Here are the specs :
Aluminium Bike
6x Turnigy 6s 5000mah 25c packs, wired to be used as a 66,6v 10ah pack.
5304 Crystalyte
Lyen 18-fet controller
Mastech power supply 75v 30a
E-bike speedict for bluetooth monitoring voltage, watts, etc. http://www.speedict.com/

It is not 100% finished yet.
At this point the controller is limted to 40amp max but the accelaration is abnormal, as with all toys like this I must have the strongest, fastest product you can get.
But I believe 1000 watt should have been enough.

At this moment I get max 3200 watt and the bike really flies, I didn't expect it to be so fast. 30km/h is about 300 watt If pedal a bit I go 40 km/h which is fast enough on a bike.
With 3200 watt Í'm going 55 km/h in a few seconds, I didn't try the topspeed yet. ( need to wear a helmet )

This ebike is replacing my Piaggio Beverly 500cc motorscooter for sure, the motorscooter has 40hp and is ofcourse much faster, but the ebike is way more fun to ride. It is even more fun then every motorcycle I have been riding. I like to ride small lightweight vehicles.

Later I will post a video of the E-bike speedict, many of us use the Cycle analyst but the speedict is also a very very nice product.

The only negative side is the weight of the bike, original my bike is about 11 kg and the HUB is about 10kg, batteries about 5kg, I don't have a full suspension bike, I thought it wasn't necessary but with a bumpy road or forrest tracks I think it is better to have a FS bike and maybe not one with a alumnium frame. At this moment I only run my bike on flat grounds.

Can someone confirm that when I have a good FS bike I can ride the bike hard on bumpy forrest tracks ? And can the Crystalyte with the original spokes handle this ?

Another question,
At this moment I bulk-charge the pack with a cc/cv power supply, balancing I do after every 10 cycles. This works fine but I don't trust the charging process to leave it alone ( afraid for fire )

My new plan is to solder anderson connectors to all of my lipo's and just let it stick out of my battery case, so no Parallel or serie connections yet. Then make one big block of anderson connectors and on the back of these connectors I make connections and wires to make a 66,6v 10ah pack as soon as I connect this "block" to my battery case outcoming andersons. That should work right ?

Then for charging, I make another block of andersons with only parallel connections, so this is my charge "block".

I then can use a normal RC Icharger and charge the whole pack like it is just one 6s 30ah pack.

Ofcourse when the pack is almost empty after a long ride there will be some voltage difference, But when discharging to about 3,50v per cell there is almost no difference so I can safely connect the charging block.


Before I order and build the andersons can someone confirm if this is a good idea or maybe another idea is better ?


Thanks !

 

[neptronix]

Nice rig, man.

One thing you should consider is that Andersons aren't exactly the best connector around. They have had problems with coming loose.

hobbyking sells 4mm bullet connectors that match what comes on the lipo packs. If i were you i'd just use those instead. They seem to be more reliable as well.

 

[Bazaki]

I now have 5,5mm bullet connectors from HK, great stuff. But for my latest plan I described I can't use the bullets to build a nice brick of connectors. And I only hear good stuff about the Andersons.

Is it true that a steel frame would be better than a aluminium frame ? I want to buy a full suspension but most of them are aluminium and I don't like to have an accident.

 

[neptronix]

Why aren't the 4mm connectors suitable? ( or 5.5... whatever is coming out of your batteries ).
They make a lot of sense. The connectors on the bikes are already overbuilt for our duty. You end up saving yourself a lot of time by not switching the battery connectors.

It's easy to use those to make a parallel & serial harnesses. Today for example, i finished my parallel harness for a 15ah pack:

I have seen Andersons in person disconnected with a very small amount of force. Perhaps you have not read around enough to hear stories about this on the forum, but it's a reality. Also, they are expensive in the first place.
Whereas a pack of 10 bullet connectors from hobbyking is what... 2-5$?

Anyhow, as far as bikes go, aluminum is okay if it's a strong frame with meaty dropouts.
I picked up a trek 4300 based on the fact that:

A) It had been abused like crazy and the frame sustained no denting whatsoever, so obviously the alloy in these bikes is tough
B) The rear dropouts are flat, have a large surface area, and are thick.

Currently i am running only 250-500w so i don't need a torque plate, but once you start exceeding that amount of power, a torque plate or torque arm is recommended in order to prevent the dropouts from being bored out into a circle.
This is why thick, flat, large dropouts with mounting holes are preferable on an aluminum bike.

Steel is good, but a good aluminum bike will work fine. Many people here have high power setups on aluminum bikes.

So be picky about aluminum bikes. Lots of newer ones have crappy dropouts. Trek and a few other brands have tough dropouts.

As far as spokes go, 12ga are pretty tough, but if you're going to hit bumpy terrain regularly, you need to consider getting either really fat tires or dual suspension to help soften the blows. These kind of forces destroy ordinary bike rims.

 

[Bazaki]

Thanks for your explanation !

But about the Anderon idea, it's different than your picture.
Like most of us do is making a parallel and serie connections, then almost every connector is fine.

But my new idea for 6x 6s 5ah lipo is to make a whole brick out of 12 andersons and connect it to the lipos you have.
Then when this brick of andersons is sticking out of your batterypack nothing is in serie or parallel.

The second brick of 12 andersons is wired up your choice like 18s 2p, this brick is connected to the side of the controller. So when plugging in the controller brick we suddenly have a 66v 10ah pack.

Deconnect this controller brick and every 6s pack is just a 6s pack.

A third brick of 12 andersons can be wired to make a 6s 30ah, so put in this charge brick and hook it up to a normal RC charger and the charger will see a 30ah 6s lipo.

For the balancing leads I had the following in mind.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23290&start=15

I would need 2x DB37 connector since a 6s pack has 7 leads x6 = 42 pins.

With this controller brick you also can build a 24s 5ah, or 12s 15ah.

Important is that we don't decharge to deep, the difference between the cells will be bigger and connecting the parallel charge brick can cause some trouble

I don't know if other people have been doing this but to me it sounds like a nice and safe solution.

 

[neptronix]

You can wire up the 4mm connectors the same way. But yeah, i see where you are getting the idea about that 'brick' functionality. It looks elegant for sure. And convenient.

I suppose i just see these batteries as cheap and not exactly reliable, so i chose to not solder up special connectors to them. Already killed a battery ( my fault ) and had to resolder a special connector and i figure it's just not worth the hassle.

Are you stuck on the idea of 66v? because hyperion makes a 14s charger now. You will be limited to 52v, but it would be a lot more convenient. you won't have to disconnect your serial/parallel connections that way.

 

[gtadmin]

Thanks for your explanation !

But about the Anderon idea, it's different than your picture.
Like most of us do is making a parallel and serie connections, then almost every connector is fine.

But my new idea for 6x 6s 5ah lipo is to make a whole brick out of 12 andersons and connect it to the lipos you have.
Then when this brick of andersons is sticking out of your batterypack nothing is in serie or parallel.

The second brick of 12 andersons is wired up your choice like 18s 2p, this brick is connected to the side of the controller. So when plugging in the controller brick we suddenly have a 66v 10ah pack.

Deconnect this controller brick and every 6s pack is just a 6s pack.

A third brick of 12 andersons can be wired to make a 6s 30ah, so put in this charge brick and hook it up to a normal RC charger and the charger will see a 30ah 6s lipo.

For the balancing leads I had the following in mind.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23290&start=15

I would need 2x DB37 connector since a 6s pack has 7 leads x6 = 42 pins.

With this controller brick you also can build a 24s 5ah, or 12s 15ah.

Important is that we don't decharge to deep, the difference between the cells will be bigger and connecting the parallel charge brick can cause some trouble

I don't know if other people have been doing this but to me it sounds like a nice and safe solution.

I will be doing something similar so I think this is a great idea I'll be using these for the Anderson connectors

 

[John in CR]

Nice build Bazaki.

Neptronix,
I don't think you should lead anyone to believe that AL alloy bicycle dropouts can be fine even with lower power hubs. The better bikes are extremely strong in their designed use, but that is with zero twisting force. All of the hubmotor force to move is transferred to the bike there at only a 5-6mm radius. Because of the way AL fails from fatigue, I believe it's not a matter of IF they will fail, but WHEN. In all likelihood what has save yours is the friction of the nut face, not the dropout.

 

[Bazaki]

Thanks for the warning John, but I'm very aware of this.
But from the beginning I use this torque arm.

That should be fine then, right ??

 

[John in CR]

Bazaki,
Sorry I had my reading interrupted a few times and lost track. Yours looks fine at lower power, especially starting with steel dropouts. For high current thru and X5304, I'd go more.

 

[neptronix]

Nice build Bazaki.
Neptronix,
I don't think you should lead anyone to believe that AL alloy bicycle dropouts can be fine even with lower power hubs. The better bikes are extremely strong in their designed use, but that is with zero twisting force. All of the hubmotor force to move is transferred to the bike there at only a 5-6mm radius. Because of the way AL fails from fatigue, I believe it's not a matter of IF they will fail, but WHEN. In all likelihood what has save yours is the friction of the nut face, not the dropout.

Mine has been good thus far, but i understand your caution.
Well anyway the OP is smart enough to have a torque arm.

 

[Bazaki]

To avoid some more misunderstanding I enclose a real pic of my bike, the pic before was an example.

So it is an aluminium dropout with a steel torque arm at only one side, this should be ok right ?

My plan is to accelerate as fast as possible with my setup, 80 amp 72v on the x5304, should I make it stronger ? How ?

Or is the above situation good enough ?

 

[neptronix]

if i were you i would be using two torque arms at minimum.

If you are really going to be running 80 amps ( that is a lot of amps.... ), i would say that rear is bad news if that's aluminum. If it's steel i wouldn't approve of it either!!

Because at that power you really need a torque plate that bolts onto multiple locations.
Obviously on your setup that doesn't look possible.

You need something like this with a strong rear..

See how easy a torque plate could be installed? see how it would have two bolts to leverage on? ( and you could drill a 3rd or 4th mounting hole also... )

 

[John in CR]

I don't like those skinny torque arms. I'd get ride of any washers and grind the nut shorter to be able to use thicker torque arms (yes one on each side using whatever axle length you have available. The problem with all those store bought torque arms is that they aren't a tight fit on the axle flats, which will allow some movement especially if you use regen braking, and movement will deform the torque arm and motor axle over time. I've gone to clamping type on all of my builds to ensure a good tight fit on the axle flats, so no movement is possible in either direction.

Has that torque arm given some already or is it really made at the odd angle the axle is at in the photo?

 

[oldpiper]

Bazaki, why the nylon cable ties around the torque arm? They can't be doing anything at all.

Cameron

 

[Bazaki]

Well, those nylon cable ties are just for preventing the phase wires touching the spinning wheel.

The torquearm is very thick and hard steel, another one on the other side of the wheel and then I should be strong enough I think.

First I drove with the controller setting to 57A and my amp clamp displayed 35 A Max, I just ride with the controller settings at 74 A and my Amp clamp displays 85 A, the batteries were full and drop to about 4,08 per cell.x 18 =73,44 x 85A = 6242.4 Watt !

This was insane ! Even when riding 10kmh and slightly open the throttle went to a wheelie, this is TOO extreme. But fun to experience.

At a field of grass I'm more like a dirtbike now 8)

Next step is a Full suspension.

 

[neptronix]

84a? you need to take a video of that. I've never seen that before and can't imagine how awesome it is.

The problem with torque arms is that the weakest point then becomes the metal tie around your frame. That point is weaker than your dropouts themselves.

This is why for high power setups i would not use anything less than a torque plate. You can't go wrong with adding additional effective width to your dropouts.

 

[Bazaki]

Well I made a video, but not of the ride itself, I will do that later.

But the Bluetooth Ebike module works really fine ! I never had an Cycle Analyst, but this Speedict Ebike works really great !

I also made a different batterybox that is very small and fitts in the frame.

The controller is a bit wider so it will still catch some wind for cooling, I think I paint it black also.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_5CHaI2u9E[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_5CHaI2u9E[/youtube]

 

[adrian_sm]

Super slick battery box mate. Got any more pics.

Great work,

- Adrian

 

[neptronix]

That battery box is way cool; i wish i had the space / skills / knowledge / tools to do it.

 

[Bazaki]

Building the box is way easy.
Some wood from the shop, about 10 euro.

Cut to the size of your frame, some painting and you re done, never done it before but took about one full day.

 

[neptronix]

Ooh.
Wood is easy but i would never use it.
It is humid here and can get very rainy.
I think i'd already be done with my battery box build if i didn't live here, lol.

 

[Bazaki]

That's why I paint it, here it is rainy too. Later I will make some sort of bag of it. So it looks like a bag on the outside, it avoids water and hopefully also thiefs, it looks less interessting with a bag.

http://chart.speedict.com/?weblogid=0435858l121jt58

With the Bluetooth Ebike speedict you can upload data to the internet, here you can see all data. Works really great.

 

[icecube57]

Coat the box in fiberglass resin and paint it again. The resin is somewhat self leveling so it should leave a smooth finish. If you put to much hardener in it you cant work with it. If you dont put enough it will take a long ass time for it to cure. The box would be very water resistant. Just my experience from making speaker boxes.

 

[Bazaki]

Some coating sound good, But the next step is to make a bag of the box, at least to look like a bag and avoid water.

New things for today are :
Full black painted rear wheel, incl rim, spokes screws, hub.
Black painted Lyen controller
Soft seat with spring
Mounted the batterybox in the screw holes of the frame.
3 Andersons at the rear bottom of the battery box, one click and I can remove the wheel.
Main switch a lot shorter ( very skinny battery box )
And a few improvements.

I am waiting for my second torque arm so I restricted the controller at 50 amps instead of 80 amps.

3- way speed switch and cruise control is on it's way.

It is so much fun to ride this, way more fun then every motorcycle I have been driving