BBSHD 27.5" All Mountain Build. Could use some help on 1 and 2.

[geosped]

Ok I just got done with a new build. The doner bike is called a 2017 Breezer Team repack 27.5. Its technically called an Enduro but many of the reviews list it as an all mountain /trail bike. It's big and beefy but climbs exceptionally well. Here are the specs if anyone is interested.

https://archive.breezerbikes.com/2016/Breezer/repack-275-team- The bike has a 27.5" wheel and 160mm of travel both front and rear and is basically all XT spec wise including hubs, derailleur, brakes, shifter.

It's not really trail tested as of yet but I think I'm 95% ready. I did ride around the block a few times to check things out, shifting rubbing, binding etc... The intent of this is to build fully capable All Mountain trail riding bike. This is not a daily commuter just a Weekend Warrior. In needs to run for at least 2hrs and do about 10-15miles of heavy all single track mountain type terrain. No concrete or paved trails strictly off road. I'd like to do some small jumps and drops and be able to climb like a goat. So really a little bit of everything. Another challenge as this bike already weigh's close to 30lbs (porky) is selecting a small enough battery for one day's ride is gonna be a challenge. I went with an 8ah 21700 52v pack. I'm hoping to get a good solid 15-20 miles or 1.5 -2 hours of ridding with PAS on 3 and use of throttle only when needed basically on long climbs or tough sections. I have only driven the bike around the block so testing is still needed.

Challenges to overcome and considerations for others using a newer bike compared to a bike with a 26" wheel. From what I've noticed newer bikes pose a couple of greater challenges to overcome when using a BBSHD kit compared to it's older brother the beloved 26" wheel bikes. Newer bikes conversions are typically not as easy or straight forward and require a bit more planning. For example these are typically have an 11 or 12sp meaning they have a much smaller chain ring in the front and huge rear cassette meaning if you cant find a small chain ring in the front with enough offset then your probably gonna have issues and wind up potentially not being able to use all of the gears, messing with the cassette or downgrading to a 9sp which can be expensive as you will need a new cassette, chain ring, shifter. Other issue is new bikes will have wider tires meaning potentially more issues with chain stay alignment.

My Issues so far:
1) Issue ISCG tabs. Yes this bike had the ISCG tabs and I needed to dremel out a nice chunk. So if this is not something you want to do then make sure this is a consideration when finding a donner bike. Problem solved just used some cutting wheels and sanding discs.

2) As stated before chain stay alignment is a major issue. My Chanin ring 42T Blekkie chain ring has an offset of 18.3mm which currently aligns with the smallest rear cog. It should align with something in the middle. So it's off by another 20or so mm. Meaning poor chain line means lots of broken chains and chain pop offs. Greatest problem I need to solve. The only thing I can think of is having to mess with the cassette and giving up a few gears by moving some of the gears around. If anyone has a suggestion let me know. Luna has another chain ring that has a greater offset but I dont think it's going to be enough although it would get me 6mm closer.

3) Another challenge as this has a dropper post not sure what to do with the battery. I was thinking of moving from under the seat to right above the motor on the downtube but dont really have any mounting post. If anyone has some ideas let me know.

 

[TNC]

OP, I went with the Luna Eclipse 42T chainring which provides nearly 25mm of offset. It put my chainring in exactly the OEM location on my '08 Santa Cruz Nomad. I'm guessing using a frame that had ISCG tabs may have caused yours to be further out...perhaps? Was it still a 73mm BB?

On the battery, I think you and I have talked before. I use a backpack to carry my battery for mountain biking...52V, 17.5AH "brick" style. I like having the weight on me in a generally centralized area of the bike with the ability to shift the weight with me when I need to lean forward to weight the front end in corners or get further back for drops. With a nicely padded small to medium sized pack, I have no discomfort riding with this. I mount the plug end just under the nose of my saddle. In a fall the cable unplugs and the padded pack keeps the battery from poking you uncomfortably. I'm already used to carrying a pack for hydration for mountain biking and dirt motor riding. Some don't like having a pack and have always used water bottles. I hate water bottles. That's why we have options. Battery placement can be one of the biggest headaches for many dual suspension frame designs.

 

[geosped]

OP, I went with the Luna Eclipse 42T chainring which provides nearly 25mm of offset. It put my chainring in exactly the OEM location on my '08 Santa Cruz Nomad. I'm guessing using a frame that had ISCG tabs may have caused yours to be further out...perhaps? Was it still a 73mm BB?

On the battery, I think you and I have talked before. I use a backpack to carry my battery for mountain biking...52V, 17.5AH "brick" style. I like having the weight on me in a generally centralized area of the bike with the ability to shift the weight with me when I need to lean forward to weight the front end in corners or get further back for drops. With a nicely padded small to medium sized pack, I have no discomfort riding with this. I mount the plug end just under the nose of my saddle. In a fall the cable unplugs and the padded pack keeps the battery from poking you uncomfortably. I'm already used to carrying a pack for hydration for mountain biking and dirt motor riding. Some don't like having a pack and have always used water bottles. I hate water bottles. That's why we have options. Battery placement can be one of the biggest headaches for many dual suspension frame designs.

Thanks for the feedback. I may have to bite the bullet and get the 42T chainring as it does offer about 6mm more offset than my Lekkie chain ring. My BB was 92mm. Lekkie makes an extension kit that will allow you to extend your 68mm to 86 and or 92mm PF BB's. So far it's working pretty good. In hind sight I should have gone with the BFANG extension. Luna and other carry an extension kit. The one thing I dont like about the Lekkie extension kit is they have an adapter that fits on the crank arm that extends it out a good inch or so. I'm noticing on turn's where I lean the bike in on that side I get a lot more pedal strikes. So many little things to iron out but so far so good. I rewired some of the wires and used some heat shrink where I have my "Rat's Nest" of wires all on the side of the BB is where I decided to store all of the wires.

Battery placement is an issue for sure. I'm still not sure where I want it. I like the sadel bag idea as it's very discreet just like what you do. I'm not a big fan of the panni pack just incase I fall or get thrown off. But you make a great use case for it. I want to be as discreet as possible. The other option would be to mount it on the down tube need to think about creating a bracket.

 

[COAR]

You might have the same battery as I do. I have a 52v 8ah unit as well, also with 21700 cells. It was a pain to figure out a mounting solution I was happy with, even with a hardtail and much more room in the frame triangle. Personally, a battery back pack was an absolute no go - it adds a layer of inconvenience that shouldn't be present in a relatively simple activity. It's impossible to ride at all without a pack (making shorter rides less enjoyable) and if you have to get off and walk the bike, you then have deal with unplugging and replugging the connector.

On your frame it looks like you basically have 2 options: between the rear triangle and seat, or on the bottom of the downtube. I can envision mounting in either location but I would test the clearance at full (or near full) compression (measure, or ideally use the battery/cardboard mockup) to see if the tires will smash it when you hit a bump.

For the mounting you could add some riv nuts to the bottom of the downtube. They're very simple to install and fairly strong. Then use a nylon strap for reinforcement.

As for chainline, it's not ideal but you may able to get away with it. On my BBS02 the chainline is pretty wacky in the largest gears but even going up extremely steep hills on 80% assist I haven't had any issues yet [knock on wood]. Personally I would look into downsizing the chainring to a 30-34T - that will take a lot of stress of the motor on steep stuff and make grabbing the lowest gears less critical.

 

[TNC]

COAR, you make some good points on the backpack deal, but I'll expand on how I use mine. I agree with you on the inconvenience "if" I were having to get off the bike and do things...like in an urban setting or such. However, I'm only using this bike for pure, fun, recreational mountain biking. And when I do get off the bike just to take a breather, or a snack, or look at something, or take a leak, I unclip two quick release buckles on my pack and hang it on the handlebar, saddle nose, tree limb, sitting on the ground, or whatever. I don't even have to uplug.

When I started this pursuit down the ebike hole, I thought riding with the battery on my back would be horrible. I had to do it initially to get everything shaken out on my bike and motor setup before I committed to what I thought would be my long term solution. After each ride, I realized it was not what I though it would be. I thought the cable dangling down would be a big issue if nothing else. None of this has been a problem.

Now...working in a bike shop I definitely get how many, many...maybe most...riders don't like backpack hydration packs. I get that. I guess racing my state's enduro circuit where you almost have to drink while riding the dirt motor for long stretches got me used to hydration packs and the ease of using them. Reading lots of Karl Gesslein's articles on ebikes and Bafangs is what even gave me the idea at first to put the battery in a pack. Since then it appears it's going to be my method of choice, but I certainly get how different riders will have totally different takes on this issue. My bike is already at about 50 pounds. I like not having the additional 8 pounds strapped to it. Riding time and distance was going to be a bit of a priority for me, so a heavier, bigger battery was pretty much a given.

 

[geosped]

As for chainline, it's not ideal but you may able to get away with it. On my BBS02 the chainline is pretty wacky in the largest gears but even going up extremely steep hills on 80% assist I haven't had any issues yet [knock on wood]. Personally I would look into downsizing the chainring to a 30-34T - that will take a lot of stress of the motor on steep stuff and make grabbing the lowest gears less critical.

I have a 30T lekkie aswell and the offset is very little. Chain line is much worse.

I'm going to ride it on the trail. See how the chain does and go from there. We may have the same pack. I got it off ebay that's the only place I found it. A guy on one of the face book groups recommended it and I met some guy on a local trail that swore by it. It was not cheap at $380 bucks. How many miles are you getting from yours and what's your style of riding?

I think for now I'm gonna keep the battery in the bag under the seat and reinforce with some heavy duty tie straps. I thought about the small triangle but that would be a bit tricky. Thanks for the box trip. I'm using the sag ring on the rear shock and seat post height to determine how much travel the bike is getting so with the sag ring 3/4 of the way down and seat post fully extended I've got about 3" of room. Not sure if that's enough. I'll have to do some more testing.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

can you guys post the 52v 21700 battery eBay link?.

I have 52v 20ah on my commute bike, but it's too much range and weight for my next trail bike build..

 

[COAR]

Mine was also ebay and $380 pricepoint, so yeah sounds like the same battery.

This is the trail I ride most often (along with the black section north of it) for a total distance of 10-12 miles: https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/2421789/foothills-maxwell-loop

I'm using a BBS02 that's programmed to pull ~900 watts peak. From a battery that's charged to ~56v, it's down to 49-51v by the time I'm home. I'd say there's usually 50-60% of battery charge left. I built the ebike to ride the same trails I do on a pedal bike but faster and less effort on the climbs and flatter sections. So I'm usually generous with the assist and throttle. Avg assist used is probably ~40%, although I change the levels as often as I do gears, if not more.

can you guys post the 52v 21700 battery eBay link?.

I have 52v 20ah on my commute bike, but it's too much range and weight for my next trail bike build..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233342560598

 

[geosped]

Looks like we bought the same exact battery. I have not been able to find other vendors making this. I think Luna carries a 6.5ah but not a 8ah. Also the 40T samsung batteries are hard to come by there are shortages. Two people told me that the cost of the cells has gone up 40% in the last three months and you cant even get them now. It looks like the vendor has one left. I cant say that it's a good battery or not. I just gone mine last Thursday and just finished putting my bike together. I have about 3 miles on it and it's just riding around the neighborhood. It feels just like my EM3EV 17ah pack as far as performance. It's defineately a lot lighter. I'm just hoping I can get roughly 15 miles.

So glad to see another "mountain biker" with real experience!!! It's so hard to find people that have and are looking for a similar experience.

I'm so jelous of that trail looks awesome!! This is my local trail it's 5 miles from the house. https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/4683982/big-creek-park I try and ride 2 x 3 times a week. We have much better trails but they are further out. I cant wait to rip new bike. My 26" XC bike was so sketchy it was not only scary but dangerous. Tires way way to small 1.95's and travel was limited to 100mm front and rear suspension. Would constantly bottom out the rear shock. Also the 17ah battery was way way way to much. I would only charge it every 2nd or 3rd ride. No reason to cary that much extra weight. Killed the nimble feel of a XC bike. I'm hoping this 8ah gives me a 1.5-2hrs of riding.

Mine was also ebay and $380 pricepoint, so yeah sounds like the same battery.

This is the trail I ride most often (along with the black section north of it) for a total distance of 10-12 miles: https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/2421789/foothills-maxwell-loop

I'm using a BBS02 that's programmed to pull ~900 watts peak. From a battery that's charged to ~56v, it's down to 49-51v by the time I'm home. I'd say there's usually 50-60% of battery charge left. I built the ebike to ride the same trails I do on a pedal bike but faster and less effort on the climbs and flatter sections. So I'm usually generous with the assist and throttle. Avg assist used is probably ~40%, although I change the levels as often as I do gears, if not more.

can you guys post the 52v 21700 battery eBay link?.

I have 52v 20ah on my commute bike, but it's too much range and weight for my next trail bike build..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233342560598

can you guys post the 52v 21700 battery eBay link?.

I have 52v 20ah on my commute bike, but it's too much range and weight for my next trail bike build..

Here is the link of the battery. This is from my previous purchase history. Looks like we bought the same battery.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233342560598

Here is the saddle bag if your interested. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B5199PU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Fits this battery perfectly and has a zipper to expand it another 1/3 or so. I will say it's not the best quality and I'm not sure with out additional support, it would support the battery for very long at least on a real trail. It would probably be fine on a paved road. I have secured it under my seat with several large heavy duty zip ties. But I may swap this to right under the motor on the down tube. I just have not found a suitable mount. And the idea of a phani pack is growing on me. I also have a backpack for hydration. For me personally and having leaked hydration pack before and having 3 clips on my back pack for me anyway that would be little to scary but the phani pack idea is starting to take hold. Idealy if a pack could be custom made long and narrow with a natural curve then and put in a phani pack that might be ideal.

 

[COAR]

So glad to see another "mountain biker" with real experience!!! It's so hard to find people that have and are looking for a similar experience.

I'm so jelous of that trail looks awesome!! This is my local trail it's 5 miles from the house. https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/4683982/big-creek-park I try and ride 2 x 3 times a week. We have much better trails but they are further out.

And likewise, I wouldn't mind having nicely built and dedicated bike trails nearby with groomed berms and directional travel. I've only ridden stuff like that up in the winterpark downhill park. I ride the one I posted primarily out of convenience - I'm lucky to live less than a mile from an access point. There's trails I like more but driving 20 min to a packed trailhead isn't my favorite. I guess the grass is always greener...

I agree mountain bikers seem to be the minority on this site - most folks are going for maximum speed on pavement.

Anyways unless you're full throttle on max assist the entire time, you should have no issue getting at least 15 miles from that 8ah.

And for the mount, something reasonably easy to DIY is to make a box with ABS plastic (probably 1/4", you can 'thermo' mold it quite easily) and secure it to the downtube with your choice of rivnuts, hoseclamps, or even some heavy zip ties.

This is my setup:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=110586&start=25#p1656200

 

[geosped]

Nice thanks for the ideas. I was thinking of using either like a thin piece of sheet metal I could cut and form or shape with tin snips and grinder or some lexan I could cut with a jig saw and possibly mold it with a heat gun. Not sure though. For now I like the discreet position under the sadel even though I know it's not ideal.

I took it for it's first ride yesterday. I'm quite impressed with that battery. I had calibrated my Egg Rider v2 and went off on my first ride. It was the first shake down ride. The battery performed flawlessly. I had gone 6.5m in about 45minutes. Started at a full charge of 58.8 and when I was done went to 56.9 so roughly used 15% capacity, 15 miles should be no problem. Took a couple of quick breaks just to check and see if anything had come loose and kept going. I did take it very easy though I didnt really push it at all I used the throttle sparingly and kept PAS 3 to three and or 4.

I have a few concerns now after the ride. One I found my self having a lot of pedal strikes. What's odd is I rode that bike with out the conversion at least 50 times now and dont recall pedal strikes as ever being a real problem. I had three or four nasty pedal strikes yesterday though. The weird part is both the stock and bfang pedals are both 170mm. Maybe it's all in my head. So to address this issue I found some 152mm cranks arm's on aliexpress. That should solve that issue. The second issue and more concerning is where the motor now sit's is a little low. I find my self hitting stumps that I've always cleared prior to the BBSHD. One stump took a big chunk of wood out and got stuck in between the fins on the bottom of the motor. Not good. Unfortunately I really cant adjust the motor any higher. I wish I could put 29" wheels on that would have probably solved my issue. But not sure what to do about that. Maybe a bit more tire pressure in the tires but then I give up other things. I also found my self sliding a bit more. I need to work on my technique and braking around corners but It feels like I'm picking up a lot more speed around turns and going down. The front seems good but the rear is getting loose. I dont recall this ever being an issue but I hadent ridden in three weeks or so while the bike was down getting converted. Now that i'm motorized I think a wider grippier tire might benefit my riding style. I also picked up a cheap set of 27.5”x2.6” Vee Rubber Flow Snap mtb tires on the cheap $20 for a pair and they were like new still had the little titties on them. This is the widest tire I can safely fit on my rim's. So looking forward to seeing if I gain any traction and better handling in the corners. The current setup is a 2.4" in the front and a 2.2" in the rear. The new setup should feel like a monster truck lol. Last concern or point I need to address is the chain line issue. I use granny gear (largest cog) a lot when climbing and unfortunately this is the gear with the worst chain line. I did notice some extra noise and I could feel the extra tension. I may need to re-index the gears but more than likely I'm gonna pick up the ChainRing from Lunna with the largest offset to see if I can address this. The other issue Is I think my chain may be to small. I went from a 30T (stock chain ring) to a 42T Lekkie Chain Ring not sure if that would make a big enough difference. I'm gonna order a new chain though for safe measure and bring it with me on rides. On a good note I'm able to shift to all gears and had zero chain pop off's. The gear sensor is working awesome. I love that and not sure why they dont include it with the kits. Motor is still on tight. It did not come loose. My trick is once you get it on as tight as you can. Use a rubber mallet and tap it down a 1/4 turn. I wont come loose. No need for an other adapter.

 

[TNC]

geosped, your results of the pedal strikes is common with the 170's. These bikes don't need cranks that long. Heck, even on my Nomad when it was a pedal-only rig, I ran 165's. While the BB height at the pedals shouldn't have changed drastically with the install of the BBSHD, maybe your sag has increased with the extra weight. It could also be that speed has increased and you're riding more aggressively. In more technical terrain where rocky and ledgy obstacles exist, this is where I've found a short punch on the throttle lever seems to help to clear something that the motor or pedals are likely to hit.

On your assessment of the tires, I think you are totally correct...bigger is better for real mountain biking...for the most part. These bikes are now heavier. These bikes can push the envelope in corners a lot faster, if the rider is up to it. Bigger, quality tires can be a benefit. I run a Minion DHF 2.8 26" in my Fox 36 fork up front, though it will easily accept a 2.35 27.5 tire also. I run a 2.4 Continental Der Kaiser 26" in the rear. I just picked up a dual crown, 200mm travel fork at the shop, and it's going on today. I've run three different dual crown forks for aggressive trail riding over the years and loved them...just didn't love the extra weight. On the BBSHD, I don't think the weight will be an issue.

On the motor mount integrity issue, I haven't had any problem yet either, but I am fabricating my own additional mount that attaches at one of the OEM motor mount case bolts for some extra insurance.

 

[COAR]

The BBSHD is a lot wider than your stock BB right? So even though the cranks are the same length the pedals will stick out further, giving a bigger 'strike zone'.

 

[geosped]

The BBSHD is a lot wider than your stock BB right? So even though the cranks are the same length the pedals will stick out further, giving a bigger 'strike zone'.

On top of that because i have a 92mm BB the Lekkie extension kit has an extension that attaches to the spindle so that the crank arm sticks out even further. I'm still going to address this by swapping to smaller crank arms. I found some 152mm crank arms on AliExpress for $25 which I ordered yesterday. I think that will resolve the pedal strike issue. The 170mm arm's on an ebike IMO are not necessary I think it would have been better if they came with a 165mm by default.

BUT the main issue I had with the pedal strikes had more to do with a total noob move. My bike sat for a while doing the conversion and apparently my tubeless tires leak. When I rode yesterday the air pressure was 20lbs in the rear and 22lbs in the front. That is way too low. So today before I went riding I went looking for a tire pressure calculator and I filled the tires to 30 in the rear and 32 in the front and wouldn't you know it. It was much much better. I still grazed a few things with my feet but it was very different from yesterday. I still hit the stump but not nearly as bad. That reminds me I need to check and see if it knocked the motor loose.

So just for a quick update. I rode about 7miles today. So 6.5 miles yesterday today another 7. When I stopped display said I have about 51% capacity left. I'm pretty sure I would be able to reach my goal of 20 miles. So I'm really stoked about that. That battery is no joke. I also noticed that the BBSHD was a warm to the touch I dont recall me ever noticing that in the past I guess one would expect it to get warm after a nonstop 20minute ride. I had one stop and rode for 45min again. Also the battery doesnt get warm at all or at least not that I noticed. I felt it during my break stop.

 

[geosped]

Looks like I'll have plenty of space for the additional offset of the 42t Luna chain ring.

 

[geosped]

Chainline woes. This already has the lekkie 42t 18.3mm offset