BE-Bike - The project starts NOW - Turnigy 130KV Brushless

[Byte]

Hey Patrick,
I can get you one for $30 shipped to you, let me know if it is not too late.

Sent you a PM

 

[etard]

Hey bro,
I'm having the sprocket bored today and try to get it out to you tomorrow, not sure how long it will take to get to you.

 

[Byte]

Hi Dave! Thank you very much!

 

[Byte]

Long time no update... I'm very busy with school and soccer. BUT! I finished the battery mount and mounted everything together the past 2 weeks.

Well, I did a testrun... Started up everything, worked fine. I gave just a little bit of throttle from a dead start and the bike moved forward with almost no cogging, so starting works like a charm! Didn't expect this tbh! After that.. I turned the lever a bit.. and the bike came forward... I twisted the throttle just a little bit more and suddenly the bike pulled me forward like crazy!!! I immediately pulled the brake lever and got off the bike! DAMN! This thing is SCARY! I was shaking! OMG! Amazing! The power of this thing is incredible

I seriously didn't expect this! It might be because I never drove a high performance car or bike (haven't got my driving licence)... but for me this feels like a rocket!


My dad will come this weekend with his jeep so we can load the bike in it and go to a place where there is almost no traffic. I'm scared to drive this machine with traffic! Pics + vid will come soon!

 

[SamTexas]

Subscribed.

 

[Byte]

.... 10 minutes of fun then this happened. I was very easy on the throttle, always started pedaling and then really slowly turned up the throttle, everything went well. After that I wanted to look what the topspeed was, I again was very easy on the throttle and turned it very slowly! When I rode about 45 km/h suddenly there came flames out of the ESC! I immediately braked and disconnected the LiPo's. DAMN! What the frock was this? Why did my ESC started burning? This was my first ride, only 10 minutes... I think only the ESC is damaged, the LiPo's still look good.. I will measure the voltage just to be sure.

This is how the bike looked before the ride (some chains still very loose, they didn't come off though)

Does somebody know why my ESC started burning? Do you think Castle Creations will give me a new one for free? I only had fun for about 10 minutes with minimum throttle usage

 

[Wheazel]

Do you know how much power you were using?
Low throttle + high resistance is bad for the esc. (Far from design conditions)

 

[Byte]

Do you know how much power you were using?
Low throttle + high resistance is bad for the esc. (Far from design conditions)

I always started pedaling. And I was VERY gentle with the throttle, so it took me about half a minute to get from pedaling to topspeed. When the ESC started burning I was almost at full throttle, no uphill, just plain street.

I still don't know how the ESC could started burning? There aren't any shorts at the caps, I looked at those too.

 

[bzhwindtalker]

Bummer! I feel your pain on this one... Ive been using a 6s 200a esc with some succes for about 2 hours on my bike but the 80-100 and 12s must be another game for the controller :/

 

[recumpence]

I can almost guarantee you it was geared too tall. That normally gives you crazy power, then blows the controller.

Also, being easy on the throttle does not help the controller. Believe it or not, rolling really slow on the throttle is harder on it.

I feel your pain.

Matt

 

[Byte]

I can almost guarantee you it was geared too tall. That normally gives you crazy power, then blows the controller.

Also, being easy on the throttle does not help the controller. Believe it or not, rolling really slow on the throttle is harder on it.

I feel your pain.

Matt

Thank you for your input Matt. I've geared it for 53 km/h, what do you recommend? 60 km/h? 70?

Sorry my English isn't very good. Do you mean rolling (10 - 20 km/h) continuously is bad? Or applying throttle real gentle to go from 10km/h to 50km/h? So should I try to get as fast as possible to the topspeed or as slow as possible?


Somebody any idea on warranty? Will I get a new one for free or do I have to buy a new one?

 

[fizzit]

That's weird, and it really sucks. Sorry to hear about that, dude. Mine is geared for about 33mph on the flat and it hasn't blown a controller and works fine, but I'm running an 80-85.

 

[Hillhater]

I can almost guarantee you it was geared too tall.

+1...
Its a shame. you put so much effort into this build, but you got the basic gearing SO WRONG !
What voltage areyou running??
If its 10s (37v), your motor will be running at 4800rpm wot. ( say 4500 with losses)
...and you need no more than 100rpm at the cranks ,..so you need a 45:1 reduction drive.
what is your reduction ? ... it looks like no more than 15:1
you need another 3:1 reduction stage !

 

[Wheazel]

I can almost guarantee you it was geared too tall. That normally gives you crazy power, then blows the controller.

Also, being easy on the throttle does not help the controller. Believe it or not, rolling really slow on the throttle is harder on it.

I feel your pain.

Matt

Thank you for your input Matt. I've geared it for 53 km/h, what do you recommend? 60 km/h? 70?

Sorry my English isn't very good. Do you mean rolling (10 - 20 km/h) continuously is bad? Or applying throttle real gentle to go from 10km/h to 50km/h? So should I try to get as fast as possible to the topspeed or as slow as possible?


Somebody any idea on warranty? Will I get a new one for free or do I have to buy a new one?

53km/h should not be too tall gearing, that is what I am running on my cc hv160 on 12s. (faster would be even worse, im sure Matt means lower topspeed=safer)
I am using a smaller 9xx gram motor tho (probably easier on the controller) and also a centrifugal clutch that does not grip until the motor have some rpm.
As a general rule: It is bad to apply much resistance when the throttle is low on these controllers.
Also, its always good to actually know how much current that is flowing. Especially when starting up a new setup. Consider a wattmeter or cycle analyst type monitor.

About the warranty question, I think (based on forum reading) that your option is to send it in and pay for a repair.

EDIT* Judging by the pictures, the gearing seems off. I have a hard time believeing that is 53km/h at full throttle.

 

[Byte]

Thank you so much for all your input guys, that's why I love this forum! So much nice people and good advice I woke up this morning and started recalculating the topspeed.

I got 3 transmissions: 14 to 72 > 16 to 44 > 30 to 28. This gives me a ratio of 13.2:1. Tire diameter is 67cm * 3,14159265 = 2,1048670755 meters. Motor RPM is 130 * 37 volt (nominal, 10S LiPo) = 4810

Ratio: 13.2:1
Tire diameter: 2,1048670755 meters
Motor RPM: 4810

4810/13.2 = 364,4 RPM per minute at the wheel. 364,4 RPM * 2,1048670755 Tire = 767,0135623122 meters per minute So this would be 767,0135623122/1000 * 60 = 46,02km/h
So a topspeed of 46,02 km/h (28,5mph) instead of 53 km/h. Yesterday, just a few seconds before the controller blew, I measured 44km/h on GPS.

For what speed should I gear it? Hillhater says I need another reduction while Matt says my gearing is too tall??? I'm confused?Though another reduction (more slow) seems crazy to me?


@Wheazel: Thank you for your input. I recalculated everything twice (as you see above) and topspeed is 46 km/h. What topspeed do you advice on 10S LiPo?

 

[nyc863]

Castle Creations has a new (recent) recall on most of their HV ESCs for exactly this reason.

Basically they used inferior spec components.

This after a quite a lot of helis and planes went up in flames shortly after take off, or while still on the ground, and for many months as well.

You would find a controller from YGE or Kontronik is a much safer proposition.

 

[gwhy!1]

Hi Byte,
Sorry to hear about your controller , I think you need to be looking for a total reduction to the rear sprocket of around 20(+):1 with a 26" wheel for running on flat'ish roads , This is just based on my experiences with the 3.25kw (170Kv) motor and the 6.5kw (170Kv), anything below this really do start to play havoc with the controllers with these motors. hope this helps and I hope you get a replacement controller without much bother.

Edit: This is with 12s lipo.

 

[Byte]

@nyc863: Thank you for that information. I sent Castle Creations an e-mail about my blown ESC.

@gwhy!: Thank you for your help gwhy. 20:1? That would only give me a topspeed of 19mph (30km/h)? Isn't that a little slow? I hope it too hehe, never asked for a replacement from CC and bought over $1500 of Castle stuff over the past years

 

[circuit]

I feel your pain and I am really sorry to say this.. but... I have started reading (scrolling through) this thread like 20 minutes ago and stopped at page 2. After reviewing your BOM, I saw this coming... These turnigys are not suitable for this kind of use. Actually, they are not suitable for any use without special (currently non-existent, AFAIK) controller. I'd recommend you not to waste your time and money, ditch this motor and look for different one (non-RC like). Or I'll say "I told you so"... I do have some experience with this kind of motors, as you can see in my avatar... No go.

 

[gwhy!1]

@nyc863: Thank you for that information. I sent Castle Creations an e-mail about my blown ESC.

@gwhy!: Thank you for your help gwhy. 20:1? That would only give me a topspeed of 19mph (30km/h)? Isn't that a little slow? I hope it too hehe, never asked for a replacement from CC and bought over $1500 of Castle stuff over the past years

Yes with that motor/cell count it will only give you 20mph which is a bit slow top speed but will give you loads of torque, this is where the 2 speed gearbox comes into play ( or multiple gears on the rear sprocket )., or you will need to go to a sensored setup, if you want to stay with your current gearing/motor and cell count and want it reliable but I still wouldn't go below around 15:1 gearing .

 

[recumpence]

Castle Creations has a new (recent) recall on most of their HV ESCs for exactly this reason.

Basically they used inferior spec components.

This after a quite a lot of helis and planes went up in flames shortly after take off, or while still on the ground, and for many months as well.

You would find a controller from YGE or Kontronik is a much safer proposition.

I do not mean to shoot your comment down, considering you are a first time poster here, but that is NOT why Castle has changed their controllers.

Also, you are incorrect about using Kontronic controllers. I tried a Power Jazz (most expensive controller available at the time). It blew without even turning once. As soon as I turned my throttle, it exploded. Merely going to a Castle controller cured my problem.

Odds are, he had a current ripple issue or some other anomaly.

Matt

 

[AussieJester]

Somebody any idea on warranty? Will I get a new one for free or do I have to buy a new one?

You send it back to Castle for paid warranty return...your using it an aplication it
was not designed for so i doubt standard warranty has been voided. $US130 (postage included) for
paid warranty they send you a repaired or replacement ESC if yours is non repairable which
judging by the ones i've sent back in same or lesser condition, it is and
you'll likely receive a new replacement.

I would vote for voltage ripple killing it, add another couple of caps i run 4 on mine ripple
never gets much above 1.5v now...

KiM

 

[Kurt]

I feel your pain and I am really sorry to say this.. but... I have started reading (scrolling through) this thread like 20 minutes ago and stopped at page 2. After reviewing your BOM, I saw this coming... These turnigys are not suitable for this kind of use. Actually, they are not suitable for any use without special (currently non-existent, AFAIK) controller. I'd recommend you not to waste your time and money, ditch this motor and look for different one (non-RC like). Or I'll say "I told you so"... I do have some experience with this kind of motors, as you can see in my avatar... No go.

I find it really difficult to agree with your comment about the Turnigy 80-100 130kv motors. Unless I have been having a dream for the last 6 month about riding my trike with same turnigy motor for over 1000 km I feel your comments are a little wrong. I am not pushing Huge power through it - 12s lipo and lately 15s lipo at 45A so 1500w -3000w. I ride the bike regularly through the national park with very steep hills. 50km rides through the hills that would give even a x5 motor a very hard time and you can still hold your hand on the motor and the controller. I can slam the throttle to what ever position I like without any peddling. I have even towed my daughter in a child trailer through the same hills without any issues.It will do 40mph on 15s So you don't have to gear the motors down to 20mph to save controllers if you use a ebike controller and higher voltage.

[youtube]ehN5pbE16o4[/youtube]


I am only running a cheap and nasty stock 12fet 45A ebike controller. My opinion is the hv 160 controllers are a very powerful controller but being so small and highly strung they super sensitive to how you ride them and your bike set-up and perhaps motor. Get one thing wrong and its flames and smoke. Glue some hall sensors in that Turnigy motor and get your self a 18 fet ebike controller for 1/2 the price or the rc controller and just enjoy the bike.

Kurt

 

[AussieJester]

I guess i should of added...I been using the Turnigy 80-100 130Kv motors for 3 years
along with CC HV160 blown one HV160 when i smoked a motor and turned the ESC back on when motor had a short
no fault of the controller just user error... Have recorded 10000watt peaks on the CC data logging, the controller
is coming up to 1000km mark on the new bike, so i definitely disagree with his comments about motor
and controller being unsuitable......

KiM

 

[circuit]

Your experience with CA80 is very interesting. Do you use any kind of active cooling on the motor? Also, what is no-load current at max RPM? And what's the PWM frequency?