Bearings? Freewheel? Derailler? Funny noises...

[GCinDC]

Things have been great on the battery front, but now I'm having drive train issues.

I've always had a loud clanging when I go over curbs -- the rear derailer has no tension in it. So I started looking into that and it looks like a tensioner might be a good idea. So before I go crazy with the research...

Anybody know of a good solution for a Golden Motors hub, a single (few teeth as possible) gear that I can put on where the free wheel is. I could keep the existing freewheel, but it's always been very loud, so I thought I'd try and replace it.

Okay, and it's also dirty as hell. I was in a rush one morning and oiled with chainsaw chain lube... Bad idea.

Now, if I lift my feet while riding, the motor wants to spin the pedals too! Way too much junk down there... So will probably go for a new chain too while I'm at it.

And the other reason is that since I got the Magura throttle, I had to remove the grip shifter for the rear, and it's taped beneath the seat!

So, any suggestions for a singulator, tensioner, a single gear on a freewheel to go on a golden motor, oh, and I'm going to need a 56tooth chain ring & crank for my bike! I LIKE pedaling but have no resistance over 25mph..

Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[Zoot Katz]

Chain saw chain lube is good stuff when used sparingly. IOW, one drop per link. Then wipe the chain down with a rag dampened in mineral spirits.

It sounds like the freewheel mechanism is just gummed up. Take it off and soak it in mineral spirits, blow out the gunk and let it dry before using a light weight oil to lubricate it.

The chain can be similarly cleaned. Measure the pin to pin distance between 12 links. It should be twelve inches. A sixteenth inch more is still okay. An extra eighth inch is not okay.

If it's a single speed you don't need the shifter. Set the limit screws on the derailleur so it stays centered on the cog. The chain is probably too long if it's slapping the frame. Take out a few links until the derailleur cage is under some tension. You won't need a singulator.

A Shimano BMX freewheel is pretty much the standard. The smallest available is 16T.
Chain rings larger than 53T are oddities.http://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/readitem.pl?Accessory=1155076891

 

[ekline309]

yeah i wish a hub-motor company would use the 30mm x 1mm metric freewheel size so i could run a smaller gear in the back. Better yet, use a sealed 9t one piece driver.

 

[Anonymous]

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[GCinDC]

Anybody know what size freewheel the 48V GM motor uses? I couldn't get mine off to measure and would like know to get a new one...

Also, I realized I wasn't clear on ALL the noises.

1. The one I mentioned is the clanging of the rear derailer when I go over curbs. Thanks for tips on that.

There are however a couple other more worrisome sounds.
2. If I pedal slowly one rotation and stop there's a clank, like a heavy metal thing banging into place. Sounds similar to the clang when I jam the pedal forward with this freewheel, but only happens sometimes. Usually when starting to accelerate but not after some speed, (making me think once centrifugal force has it, it doesn't move...)
3. In the shop with the bike on the ground, I move the pedals in reverse slowly and hear an irregular grinding sound, like rocks in sand.

Has anyone had their wheel seize? Is there a way to lube them? Normally that's done by removing the axle, no? So how can a hub motor bearings be lubed if the axle doesn't come out?

 

[GCinDC]

Some pics. Anybody see anything sketchy? (besides torque arm... )


Obviously I can't show the bearings now, cause i'm commuting to work in a couple minutes...
But the derailer looks like it's bending in toward the wheel. is that normal?
If I removed the wheel, could I get to the bearings on this side? That's where the noise is.


Just crud... When I reverse the pedals on the ground, the chain slacks cause the freewheel didn't want to move! But maybe that's more the bearings..


Oh, and this shows the threads which are identical to the side with the freewheel. Another thing I never understood...
I also read that there should be a spacer in there, but one wasn't included and I haven't put one... Should I?

 

[TylerDurden]

Excellent pix.

Looks like your derailleur bracket is bent to clear the torque-arm... You might flip the arm to extend above the chainstay. Then align the derailleur bracket.

The whole driveline needs major cleaning and lube.

Dis-assemble the freewheel to clean it: it sounds like a soaking might not be adequate.

The threads on the left side are prolly for a drum brake or it's just a right sidecover. (Check the thread direction to determine.)

Sidenote: the tabs on washers can help keep the axle from falling out.

 

[Anonymous]

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[GCinDC]

Pix beget pix. I like that! With annotations, no less. Thanks!

I'm not sure that washer tab will go in that threaded hole. It's a hefty tab... We'll see. And the rear rack bolt was in the way of the torque arm the other way.

Know what tool you bought? Get it a the shop? I suppose I'd need a chain whip too, no?

Will cleaning freewheel help w/ bearings? Are bearings in the freewheel?

 

[Anonymous]

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[TylerDurden]

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html

Servicing Freewheels

Note: I advise against doing this, because it is generally not worth the trouble. The freewheel is the least important bearing on a bicycle, since it only turns when it is not carrying any load.
Nevertheless, some people will ignore my advice and try to service freewheels, so here's how to do it:

Screw the freewheel onto a wheel so that you will have something to hold it with.

You should see a ring with two holes in it for a pin spanner to fit into. This is usually the ring which has the brand name of the freewheel marked, and may also have an arrow pointing clockwise, and the word "remove" in one language or another.

If you don't see such a ring, you may need to remove the smallest sprocket to gain access to it. This is common on freewheels with 13 tooth or smaller sprockets. You will need two chain whips, one to unscrew the smallest sprocket, another hold the freewheel so that it doesn't spin backward while you unscrew the top sprocket.
Use a hammer and punch (or an old flat-blade screwdriver) to drive the ring in a clockwise direction. This ring is actually a bearing cone with a left ("reverse") thread, and once you have removed it you will see a row of 1/8" bearing balls and a stack of very thin washers surrounding the threads that the cone threaded on to. These are shim washers, and you can remove one or more of them to make the bearing tighter, if the freewheel has too much play.
If you want to disassemble it further, just lift off the cluster at this point and the innards will be revealed to you, including another row of 1/8" balls at the base of the freewheel, and two or three spring-loaded pawls which make the ratchet work.

For re-assembly, you can use thickish grease to stick the balls in place while you reassemble the unit, but the tricky part is the pawls. In days of yore, there were special bobby-pin-like clips to hold the pawls compressed against their springs while you re-assembled the freewheel. These are no longer available.

Instead of the special clips, you can use a rubber band with a piece of thread looped though it. Assemble the pawls to the freewheel core, then wrap the rubber band around them to hold them against their springs.

Once the outer part of the freewheel is more-or-less in place, use the thread to pull the rubber band out through the middle of the freewheel.

 

[Anonymous]

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[GCinDC]

thanks. looks like what the guy used.

for your single 16t freewheel, did you get something like this: http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/CS409C05-Shimano+Bmx+Freewheel.aspx

 

[Anonymous]

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[GCinDC]

...so I removed both derailleurs altogether. I was having trouble with the chain coming off, but recently discovered it was because of my poor job in adjusting the chain links with a chain tool. Focusing on patiently getting those kinks out by tweaking the chain pins seems to have cured the problem, the chain stays in place now, no derailleurs no tensioner....

So you need a little bit of slack and can force the chain on/off to replace the wheel? Chain tool... Another buy! :lol: My personal rule is to buy any tool I think I'll use more than twice...

Update: I finally shook off my fear and disgust and embraced the dirty, grimy part of our game last night. Patient scraping and wiping soon yielded to full on spraying of WD-40.... deciding at some point that i needed to ride another day... and that the chain and freewheel would eventually have to be replaced...

Partial success: the wheel freewheeled again! But some noises were louder, perhaps because the noise-insulating gunk was removed... or does wd-40 have sonic amplification characteristics...

Off to the shop tonight to get the Single BMX freewheel & a new chain... and a silicone lube... They don't have the tensioner in stock, so I gotta decide what to do about that...

 

[Anonymous]

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[GCinDC]

It seems amazing but I can remove the chain by hand any time just by pushing off the chainring up front, yet the chain has just enough tension to stay on with no derailluers or tensioners at all. A real bike fanatic would probably cringe at this, but mine's a beater bike, and as long as it goes and stops, that's all I care about, though I really need a larger chainring so I can actually assist the motor at higher speeds.

Interesting. I'm tempted to do the same thing, but I know I should keep the front derailer to downshift on a couple steep hills... But I don't feel like spending $50 for a tensioner when I've got so many interesting springs inside the rear derailer.... Maybe lock it together with a couple pieces of wood... :lol: I'm joking. sort of...

Fizer has nice multitools that include chain tool
Filzer I-Tool Grande

Nice. Obviously a whole new subject to research and learn: managing chain links... I looked for a master link (brought me back to old mini-bike days) but didn't find one. So they must be more like rivets or something... You don't have to explain... Sheldon must have something.. he just needs a wed designer...

I didn't look for stuck links, but will do that next time. Riding w/o chain seems like forced amputation! Did you remove it on the road? W/ tool, or hachet? Civil war surgery? Wind was enemy because you ran out of battery?

BTW, are those reflectors or lights on your picture? Have you seen Star Trek? Kirk has a (very cool electric [i assume]) motorcycle with similar looking lights... I thought, "where have i seen that before..." I'm wondering if others have posted on it yet... I just searched but this is the only shot of it i could find:

 

[Anonymous]

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[GCinDC]

If you have a rear derailleur you should be able to adjust it to operate as your tensioner even if you never switch gears...

Didn't see your "adjust" link before! That's good stuff. I think my derailer IS bent! This is hilarious too, albeit read to late... :

Well-intentioned folks sometimes try to correct this by grabbing hold of the derailer and trying to pull it back outward to its proper position. Unfortunately, they usually wind up yanking on the derailer by its cage, which is the weakest part. As a result, they fail to straigten the bent hanger, and, instead, bend the cage as well.

 

[GCinDC]

UPDATE: Found a shop with a Surly singulator & a BMX freewheel, but when I said I still wanted to use the front derailer, it wouldn't work. They did however have a 5 speed freewheel , so I bought that to replace my frozen one. (To get around yesterday, I pedaled as fast as I could and then took my feet off so the pedals could spin w/o letting the chain bunch!)

Last night I took it to the other shop (with the freewheel removal tool that works) to get the freewheels replaced but the new freewheel didn't fit! The inside threads weren't deep enough, and when back on the bike, the freewheel was jammed against the dropouts... And while I was thinking about going back to the single BMX freewheel, he started cleaning the old one and wouldn't stop! He re-greased it and then we ran out of time and had to reinstall it. But it's better than new.

We also removed the shifter for the rear, the wires, etc and adjusted the derailer so it stays on the highest gear.

So now I'm good for a while, with a three speed that bangs when I go over curbs... but luckily there's no more bearing grinding (esp not in motor).

I'm still trying to find a 52 t or bigger chainring, but cheap... w/ cranks, etc.