Best Brushless Motor Controller??? 36-72 V preferably

[sean]

What is the best brushless controller out there?? on my bike I am running a Kolmorgen with an internal controller at 24V and can goa cool 25mph with no wind... But after about 8 miles the motor sometimes heats up and the controller overheats and turns off for a 1/2 mile to cool off.

I really want to switch to an external controller and a higher voltage. I can ride ~12.5 + real world miles with hills and all on my 2 12v 20ah SLA batteries in series for 24V.

I am thinking that with 36-48 volts this bike will really wake up and have a great amount of pickup and go, and pretty good range. I just got some B-day money and should be getting some insurance money for getting hit last friday so I want to invest in a controller and more batts.

Where is the best place to buy a crystallyte controller?? Are they all they cracked up to be? Rode a friends bike with a 5304 and a 48V controller from EV depot, that's Quick, and looks to be a good controller!!

Anyway I appreciate any feedback!!

Also anyone have a pictures of burned out 5304 Motors?? Preferably taken apart and intact...

Thanks all!!!
~S

 

[Miles]

http://www.sevcon.com/pages/millipakSEM.html

 

[Lowell]

It seems like the Crystalyte controllers have had QC issues, but the ones that have blown have done so early on. If you want a really bullet proof controller, take a 72V Crystalyte and do the MOSFET upgrade.

I have not heard of any burned out 5304s, but I too would like to see one.

 

[sean]

http://www.sevcon.com/pages/millipakSEM.html

I have a BB drive with no chance of regenerative, what is the cost on those controllers?? And how much setupo/programming is necessary??

Lowell, Where would be the place to buy one of the 72 v crystallyte controllers?? Justin at E-bikes CA seems to be out of stock, and he seems to have the best prices!
I currently have the internal "40A" 24V controller supposedly; but I run a 30 amp fuse and rarely blow it..

At a higher voltage would I be better off with fewer amps like a 20?? Seems like a 35 would be the way to go for future upgrades...

Thanks for the help!!

 

[Miles]

I have a BB drive with no chance of regenerative, what is the cost on those controllers?? And how much setupo/programming is necessary??

About $450....

You can see the manual, here

 

[Lowell]

Ebikes.ca should be all stocked up very soon.

It's too bad the Sevcon controllers only handle 48v, since most fast ebikers are running 72v+.

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Tim at powerpack motors sells them as well, he does the 24-48V controller although it will run at 72V as well, he also ships cheaply as well.

You will find you wont need more than 48V 20A I am sure though, its a lot of power to put through bike chain, it might be ok, you can get the 35A controller and put a current limit pot on it like I have done.

I have scraped out and modified 10 or so motors now and have it down to a fine art! let me know if you decide to do it and I will give you some tips.

The stock controllers in those motors are delicate and dont last all that long, its really a question of when not if they blow, the motors if run at 1000-1500W should last you a while, high RPMs can shatter the rotor magnets if you overdo things, forced ventilation may help things here although I suspect it just the sheer force and high speed that causes the rotors to crack, high temperature may not help either of course.

The Puma uses very high power magnets, they are on the inside of the rotor though so don't suffer like the ceramic magnets do on the Kol.

The rotor and output shaft of the motor can be pressed out on the Kol, so it would be possible to get a new rotor body machined with slots in the side so you could fit your own magnets in to machined slots, you could even break the original magnets off the rotor and fit them to it.

The BMC motor doesn't have this problem as like the Puma the magnets are on the inside of the rotor, however the coils are on the inside so they run hotter than the Kol.

The Kol with a custom rotor would be a great motor, if you need any help with your rig just ask, I am really looking forward to seeing your bike go with the new set-up.

Cheers

Knoxie

 

[fechter]

The Crystalyte controller will probably be fine up to 48v on a Kollmorgen. That motor probably can't take more than 35 amps anyway.
Since the motor is geared and runs at a relatively high rpm compared to a hub motor, you shouldn't have problems with the FETs blowing.

Tim at PowerPack Motors has some upgraded controllers in the pipeline. I'm not sure when they might be available, but they would be overkill for a Kollmorgen.

At higher voltages, you can run a lower current limit and still have good performance. This can really extend your range if you're using lead-acid batteries. The adjustable current mod is fairly easy to install on a Crystalyte.

 

[geoff57]

Hi all
I have been using a kollmorgon converted to 48 v for some time now the xtlyte controllers work fine, it peaks at 1400 watts and then goes down to about 600w I use a 48v 13ah NiMh setup and can get 20 miles on a single charge.

Spoke to ebikes (makers of the drainbrain) they should have 72v 40 a speed controllers and db2s within 2 weeks,my thought is to always get with the ability to upgrade built in.

As for chain problems spoke to Evdeals yesterday and said about chain strech on the .25 pitch chain used with kollmorgons fitted to USPDs and he said that he has a heavy duty chain which chould stop that, the chain I use has streched and needed replacing twice.

 

[numberonekiwi]

http://www.sevcon.com/pages/millipakSEM.html

Justin at E-bikes CA seems to be out of stock, and he seems to have the best prices!


Thanks for the help!!

had an email from Justin 4/7 saying the stock would be ready tomorrow (5/7) so he should have them in stock now or in the next few days anyway

 

[dirty_d]

i have an idea, what if you keep the existing controller intact and drive it with a constant low voltage and disconect the output of it from the 3 phases and connect them to a homebuilt fet driver which goes to the windings with the fets power supplied from a cheaper more robust brushed motor controller that provides the PWM. it should be simple because the koll controller will do all the logic stuff with the hall sensors. im not an expert in electronics but i think all you would need are some high power fets and diodes plus the brushed controller.

 

[geoff57]

i have an idea, what if you keep the existing controller intact and drive it with a constant low voltage and disconect the output of it from the 3 phases and connect them to a homebuilt fet driver which goes to the windings with the fets power supplied from a cheaper more robust brushed motor controller that provides the PWM. it should be simple because the koll controller will do all the logic stuff with the hall sensors. im not an expert in electronics but i think all you would need are some high power fets and diodes plus the brushed controller.

Hi all
that seems like a messy way of doing it IMHO just bin or bypass the koll controller and get a xtlyte.

 

[sean]

OK so I am trying to buy one now but have had some slow responses due to the new shipment and their new DB etc etc. so I am now getting some answers from them, and their new store website address.

I am wanting to get a DB V2, a controller, and a new throttle to hook it all up, along with connectors to have on hand.

However now I am torn on what one to get, the:
- 36v(can work to 48V) 35A @ $150,
-48V (can work to 60V) 20A @ $110,
-72V 20A @ $120

Would the Kolmorgen be a good candidate for the low amperage high voltage controller?? Knoxxie you seem to be VERY knowledgable on this subject, what are your experiences in this type of condition?


My question is:
can I later upgrade some internal parts to up the amperage that it can take?? If for example I decide to upgrade to a BMC later.

Thanks all!!
Sean

 

[dirty_d]

isnt the koll rated at 24v @ 30A that means if your top speed at 24v draws 30A then if you get a higher voltage controller to go faster you will need more amps too, although 72v @ 20A is more power than 24 @ 30A the point on the 72v speed/torque/power/efficiency curve for that motor will be different. at 20A the speed is likely to be too close to the no load area past the highest efficiency current and nowhere near the peak power current.

 

[geoff57]

isnt the koll rated at 24v @ 30A that means if your top speed at 24v draws 30A then if you get a higher voltage controller to go faster you will need more amps too, although 72v @ 20A is more power than 24 @ 30A the point on the 72v speed/torque/power/efficiency curve for that motor will be different. at 20A the speed is likely to be too close to the no load area past the highest efficiency current and nowhere near the peak power current.

Hi all
I use a koll at 48v in my main machine, it draws up to 30A on startup but settls down to about 13A once up to crusing speed of 25mph which is fast enough for me.
The Koll won't take 72 v for long best to keep it down to 48v but if you are going for a speed controller and DB2 now the CycleAnalyst with a speed controller from the same place, go for the 72 V 40A as this means there is room for upgrading the motor.Using the speed limiter function of the CycleAnalyst to cal the max rpm of the motor would work, have a word with knoxie as to the max rpm for the Koll and keep an eye out for his koll upgrade which should allow the rpm to be increased and so speed.
My order for a 72v 40a controller with a matching CycleAnalyst was placed a few days ago.

 

[fechter]

The motor flies apart somewhere around 60v, so I would stay at 48v or less.
Depending on how much power you want, it might work fine at 20A. 35A should be OK for brief acceleration periods, but the motor might overheat on an extended steep hill (depending on gearing). 35A will be much more fun though

 

[geoff57]

The motor flies apart somewhere around 60v, so I would stay at 48v or less.
Depending on how much power you want, it might work fine at 20A. 35A should be OK for brief acceleration periods, but the motor might overheat on an extended steep hill (depending on gearing). 35A will be much more fun though

Hi all
fetcher can you gess as to a rpm speed as one of the functions I have on my testing setup is a rpm sensor on the motor so I can keep the rpms below danger levels. If you cant give me rpm can you give me speed gear ratio and tyre size and I will work out the rpm myself which I will let everyone know.this way we/I should be able to use the Koll on a 72v setup but use speed limiting to keep the motor from flying apart for prolonged perods but still use to its full advantage the 72v aceleration and brief periods of high speed.

 

[xyster]

I should be able to use the Koll on a 72v setup but use speed limiting to keep the motor from flying apart for prolonged perods but still use to its full advantage the 72v aceleration and brief periods of high speed.

That's a good idea. The new CycleAnalyst has a speed limiting function -- wouldn't that work at least for the acceleration part? Could that function be easily modified to provide for X seconds of higher speed before automatically backing off the throttle? Of course it'll still take a ways for the motor speed to decrease unless the brakes are applied.

 

[fechter]

I haven't played that much with the Kollmorgen motor, so I'm not sure what the 'redline' rpm should be. Knoxie might know. I'd guess somewhere around 5,000 rpm.