Best commuting cargo bike?

[cwah]

Hello there,

I'm planning to move soon, and I'll probably move around 15 miles from my workplace. I have now a very nice brompton able to do 27 mph (45kph). But my brompton has some issues:
- At 27mph it doesn't feel very stable. Wheels are too thin and bump can easily kill me
- brakes aren't that good, especially at high speed
- I can't carry much on my bike
- It will take forever to commute 15 miles at 27mph. Ideally my commuting time shouldn't be more than 30mn
- I can't go to highway at that speed neither.


My idea is to get a cargo bike such as a Yunda mundo:

The goal is to use the bike to carry groceries and other big and small stuff I would buy and need carrying. (Ideally it should be able to carry a fridge :lol:, even if I probably won't do that lol ).

And also be fast enough to go to highway safely. Last time I went to highway at 27mph I thought I was going to die!


So, the target would be 50 miles distance, 40-50mph speed,5KWH (4*7S3P Victpower bauer battery = 28S3P) A123 battery (I would put them on the carrying area like the picture displayed), motorcycle lock welded to the frame when I need to park it for shopping quickly.

The setup would be a dual MP3 so I can use regen for safe braking, with a dual 100V 50A controller


Is the yuba mundo the best for my need? And is it feasible?

ps: Wondering if I would have too much weight on the rear as I'm thinking about 5KWH A123 + metal case (50kg battery), the motor would weight 10 kg. So with me and stuff on the back, the rear wheel would have to carry over 200kg..

 

[mvly]

I laughed when you said 40-50mph for 50 miles.

 

[cwah]

It is possible with a 5KWH battery (80V60AH)!!! Maybe not at 50mph all the time, but at 40mph continuous it's definitely possible

 

[mvly]

Yes maybe 40mph continuous. But going 50mph on the same setup will require 2-3x the power. No way is the pies will be able to sustain it.

If he said 35-40mph, I would say that is more achievable.

On my setup, to get 37mph solid, I need 2KW. But to go 50mph solid, I need 4-5KW.

 

[chroot]

you have 3 choice cargo bikes currently are Yuba Mundo, Surly Big Dummy or Juiced ODK 2. They are extremely excellent cargo bike and I have Yuba Mundo
cargo bike with MagicPie III DD motor hauling 9 and 8 years old girls to school commuter everyday. I am in process getting a Juiced ODK 2 with 3 batteries 48v 60Ah for myself.

There are few cargo bike out there but I cant memorize all names of cargo bikes. Sorry. All runs usually near 30mph without haul heavy weight at 48v unless
you want run at 100v battery packs. Good luck 8)

 

[ohzee]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32220&hilit=cargo+bike

here's a good list to get you started. I like my yuba , but ill admit the front fork is a concern.

 

[neptronix]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45033

Don't forget the new xtracycle with the 20" rear wheel :]

Don't expect to go >40mph on a bicycle safely unless you are willing to build your own frame that is tough enough to do it. The strength of bicycle forks, suspension, and brakes will be your limitation. Did you read the thread about the yuba mundo forks collapsing under braking?

What you want is a scooter or motorcycle at that point, really..

 

[cwah]

Thanks for your answer guys.

I'll then target 42-43mph max speed then. For both safety and efficiency.

What's the best cargo bike for my setup then? i don't want to have a front fork issue, especially at 40+mph!!

Is the dual mp3 a good idea? Would a cromotor or dual crystalyte better?

 

[amigafan2003]

I think what you're after CWAH, for those speeds and distance, is a motorbike.

And remember, you're doing this in the UK - anything north of 25mph on a bike, especially if you aren't pedalling, is going to get you noticed by the rozzers and you'll be in a hwle heap of s**t for riding an unregistered, unlicensed and uninsured motorbike.

 

[Chalo]

Whatever their virtues, Magic Pies have very narrow flange spacing. That means they build up as weak wheels if you use full sized rims. They're not what you want for load carrying. Large diameter wheels built on narrow flange spacing are easy to fold, hard to keep tight, quick to go out of true, and lacking in lateral stiffness.

If for whatever reason you must use hubs like that, be sure to lace all the spokes with elbows on the outside, and ideally use a rim that will let you lace to the opposite side's holes for more bracing angle.

 

[amberwolf]

So, the target would be 50 miles distance, 40-50mph speed,

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=45204
http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/I%27m_a_Noob_and_I_Wanna_Go_50MPH

Probably all the info you need is in the threads linked there.

 

[dogman dan]

Honda 150cc scooter.

Even with full suspension, I consider my longtail only safe to about 30 mph. Faster than that, nearly all typical production cargo bikes will start having thier frames get too whippy for safe riding.


ONE exception that I know of, a custom frame made by some guys in either Arizona or California. I've seen this one corner at the death race and it's shockingly solid. I'm not going hunting, but they do have a thread in the for sale new section. The frame is designed for gas motors to be used, but it still makes a rock solid frame for a faster electric. It's made for it, (40mph) unlike ALL mass production lontails.

You will need to run moped tires and rims on it of course, to safely ride those speeds day after day.

Just go shopping for that honda.

 

[cwah]

hmm... I was considering a moped but I won't have the flexibility of a bike. And I won't be able to park it almost anywhere...

40mph as target speed is fine. No need to have 50mph for safety reason.


If the MP3 aren't good, maybe a Cromotor would be better? So I'd use a big fat moped tyre on the rear.


Custom frame would be too expensive.. and I would still need to re-weld it in order to convert it into a cargo bike...


Yunda mundo can be found in the UK for a good price...


Hmm...

What about a Yunda mundo + Cromotor/moped tyre + 80V60AH battery with 40mph target speed?

 

[Drunkskunk]

A cargo bike is going to have the wrong steering geometry for those speeds. They have a fairly upright steering angle to give better manuverability at their designed speeds, say, 10-15mph. at 40, expect a lethal case of shoppingcart wheel, or as the motorcycle riders call it, Death Wobble. At those speeds, you aren't going to recover.

The answer is a custom frame with propper geometry and striength for those speeds.

As for the Motor, I'm not sure how the Cromotor would handle the heat at 40+ hauling cargo. Its a powerfull motor, but built as a light race motor. The Big 540x Clytes might perform better here. But they aren't normaly on the market.

Likely what you need is one of John in CR's monster motors in a scooter wheel. And Idealy you need a frame like his cargo bike as well.
Of course, John's bikes are a lot more like electric motorcycles than bikes, which brings us back to the point that you realy need a motorcycle for these speeds and stresses.

 

[cwah]

Is there any cheap cargo moped? then...?

not sure how I'd be able to park that in london...

 

[atom1025]

If it were me...

I would do a Surly Big Dummy. Surly is like riding a mountain bike while the others feel like cruisers. I own a juicedriders odk and it has a feminine feel to it. The Yuba does to but not as bad.

Then aim for 35mph. Even at 30mph I can do a 15mile commute in ~35mins.

Can't really recommend a motor as I have only used a mac10.

 

[HAROX]

Honda 150cc scooter.
Just go shopping for that honda.

cwah, have I got a deal 4 U!
If this piques y'r interest, write "to Nate" and get the lowdown. He's actually looking forward to y'r inquiry.

If you can find a use Zero or whatever Honda to convert, you could be legal and cargoin-y'r-a#$-off

http://everydayadventurers.com/?s=motorcycle

and have a great day!

 

[cwah]

If it were me...

I would do a Surly Big Dummy. Surly is like riding a mountain bike while the others feel like cruisers. I own a juicedriders odk and it has a feminine feel to it. The Yuba does to but not as bad.

Then aim for 35mph. Even at 30mph I can do a 15mile commute in ~35mins.

Can't really recommend a motor as I have only used a mac10.

But 35 mph wouldn't be very far from my actual brompton... that is already doing 27mph.

 

[cwah]

Honda 150cc scooter.
Just go shopping for that honda.

cwah, have I got a deal 4 U!
If this piques y'r interest, write "to Nate" and get the lowdown. He's actually looking forward to y'r inquiry.

If you can find a use Zero or whatever Honda to convert, you could be legal and cargoin-y'r-a#$-off

http://everydayadventurers.com/?s=motorcycle

and have a great day!

Can you tell me more about this "lowdown" and price? However, if you're not located in europe or in UK, there is very little chance I'd ever import a bike from US

 

[HAROX]

sure. I've done some building business with Nate so... tell him stu "sent" you.
He'll give you the lowdown, which would be all the pertinent measurements.
a while back somebody mounted the xtracycle frame on a GoldWing. Nate thought it funny and "made" his own photoshopped creations.He runs the company, has a laugh at his expense. Fact is the frame and bags work.period. They're aluminum rails cloth bags, feather light, and mounted in a steel frame. The footer is 30" on the frame, about good for a Harley, or Honda, or Zero... whatever. Snowmobile, lawn tractor, haha.
Reason why they'd work for you #1 they're already thought out. They're already made. They hold 30# apiece. They have outrigger rails in case the load gets heavier. Then they hold 50# each. That's a lotta Lipo.
Likely, one could bisect the frame, giving one a "left" and a "right" side. That's prob'ly what the GoldWing person did.These two footers then could be attached to the donor M/C, since there's already steel on the M/C to attach to, i.e. the frame could be welded straight on to the M/C carcass. The bags hang from the aluminum H frame, which is planted inside the steel footer frame. Putting a proper sized Deck on top is just a matter of getting a piece of hard wood and jig-sawing the shape. The attachment hooks are available, in fact, ALL the parts are available as PARTS!
So you could be looking at much less than what I paid. Hell he might even have a frame that he wants to sell off cheap.
It's worth looking in to, b/c you need a Emoto
And I wouldn't worry about reselling it, any more than I'd worry about reselling a pickup truck .

 

[cwah]

Is a goldwing something like that?

That's huge, as big as a car. I'll never manage to escape from traffic jam (every day in london) or park it anywhere :?

 

[HAROX]

Well, I think I'm being played here. Tell me if I'm wrong.I can take a joke just like the next schmo.
Also I note, too late, that you say you don't want to customize, or weld, or jump through any of those hoops. And you want to park for free in London. And you want to be legal, I'm sure, and not hassled by the fuzz.

Historically speaking, Honda made a TWO wheeled M/C called a GoldWing. It weighed 550# and was FAT, and cruised at 80 mph. A Honda 150 is about as long as a Yuba Mundo, about 7' long, and about 250# and is skinny, and good for about 45-60 (??) mph.

You reevaluated your situation and thought something like a MOPED might work, smaller than a Honda 150. Some of those mopeds go 50 mph, sure, while most go 35mph. Put some heavy bulky cargo on a MOPED and it won't do what you wanted it to. And then of course you get nicked for parking.

Regardless you really need a M/C though to go 50 mph for 50 miles, otherwise it will be one hour of HELL going, and another hellish hour coming back. Is your commute fifty miles? I can't remember.

I remember you wanted it to be inexpensive. If you go back to the Xtracycle link and follow the links Nate inserted in there in bold print, you'll find two E bikes, one being the Zero, his favorite. That's the one he would like to cargo out, it seems.

The Yuba Mundo won't go 50 mph for an hour, or for five minutes. The geometry is wonky. And the first time you have to use all the brakes on front and you faceplant at 40mph b/c the front forks fold like a cheap picnic table, you'll wish you had gotten a vehicle that was built to survive that sort of panic stop. BTW isn't the YUBA made in the USA?

The best commuting cargo bike may not be your ticket; however if you enjoy carrying lots of stuff (which I do on an Xtracycle), and you like to get along down the road, well then, convert a M/C to a cargo bike set up, and just pay the gas bill and ride. And don't get a GoldWing. Get a Zero, and hire a welder.

A cargo bike that goes 60... priceless.

 

[dogman dan]

Nothing wrong with just getting a bigger motorcylcle. I just mentioned the 150cc because anything much smaller would not meet your speed desires.

The single cheapest to operate vehicle I've ever owned was a honda CB 125 motorcylce. Ran it for years and never spent on anything but a quart of oil a year and gas, and one rear tire. Got about 60 mpg, and could go 60, if I tucked enough. I recently had a chinese 150 scoot, but didn't like it as much as the honda.

Old motorcycle convertet to electric is an option of course, but just runnning a gas ones cheaper.

 

[dogman dan]

Here's a fun commuter in 250 cc's, put street tires on it of course. It's got the lights and all.

http://powersports.honda.com/2013/crf250l/offroad.aspx

Or perhaps more practical, a scoot.

http://powersports.honda.com/2013/pcx.aspx

Don't know what gets imported to your side of the pond though.

 

[cwah]

No I'm not playing you. I just don't know anything about moped or motorbike. I don't even know what M/C stands for. I tried to google it, but didn't find anything :lol:

My needs are actually quite straightfoward:
- Able to commute quickly 15 miles journey (around 30 mn would be good)
- Able to escape traffic jam (otherwise 30mn becomes 1h30mn)
- Able to park it easily on over-crowded london city.
- Able to carry heavier stuff on my bike.


The problem is that each type of bike only perform good on 2 area maximum:
1. My brompton is the excellence in term of flexibility over traffic jam, parking anywhere, taking with me in the tube! But not fast enough for large distance or able to carry heavier stuff..

2. Getting a bigger moped/motorbike would allow me to commute faster and would be able to carry heavy stuff. But I'm wondering about its ability to go over traffic jam, and biggest issue would be to park it. We don't have parking space in my workplace so I would need to be sure I can find a way to park it on the street safely, and find room to park it without getting tickets.

3. The yunda mundo or other cargo bike were somehow a compromise between all these point as it's a bit more agile and flexible to park... but as other said, not strong enough...


Do you have a picture of Nate motorbike? And I suppose I would need to ship it from USA??? It would be overpriced I think. The yunda mundo can be found for £450 on the UK.