Bike shuts down

[andrey320]

Didn't want to start this thread, but now that it happened 3 times, I had to.

My bike - Izip Cruiser Enlightened - Click Here

The bike is pretty new. About 3-4 weeks of riding, 130 miles.

The light shows full charge but turning on assisst does nothing. Turning off the power and turning it back on helps turn the assist on (sometimes), but not for long. Turning off and leaving it off for a few minutes seems to work better or more often than turning on and off rapidly. The charger only force charged for 1 hour (only paid attention this time).

All three times it hapened toward the end of the ride home - after about 8 miles of riding in 2 intervals. 2 of the times during hot days - mid 80s (can't recall the first time)

Where should I connect the voltmeter? I dont want to cut into any wires but it seems like I'll have to. The 3 options I can see are bad battery/sensor/motor, something overheating and shutting off, or bad connection. Any tips will be greatly appreciated.
I wonder what Currie Tech will say to me?

 

[fechter]

I would guess the battery voltage is dropping to the point where the low voltage safety is kicking in. Possibly a bad battery or a loose battery wire. You want to measure the voltage on the battery pack. Sometimes I jam some skinny wire in the connector to make hooking up the meter easier.

You need to measure the voltage when you're having the problem. This can be challenging sometimes.

 

[TylerDurden]

Sometimes I jam some skinny wire in the connector to make hooking up the meter easier.

You need to measure the voltage when you're having the problem. This can be challenging sometimes.

You might try using long push-pins. (I push the pins through the wires and clip the DVM test leads to the shank of the pin. )

Then, you can strap the DVM to the bike where you can see it easily.

 

[jondoh]

If this is always happening towards the end of the ride, it might be the batteries. NiMH batteries don't like heat. Other people in other forums have commented on this (Ric is the most recent one). Try to feel the batteries (i know it's tough since they're in the tube). If they're warm, they could be heating up too much and the voltage sag is enough to cut off the controller. In stead of plugging the bike into the charger right after a ride, put the bike in the shade and let them cool for about an hour and then plug it in.

If your problem is happening randomly, at the beginning of the ride or even with cool batteries, forget what i said.

 

[Ypedal]

I'm pretty sure we've covered this before.. but worth mentioning..

Never try to re-charge HOT batteries.. always best to bring the bike indoors or in the shade and allow the pack to fully cool down ( stuck inside a frame.. figure a few hours after a ride )

I realize this is not always convenient or possible.. but if you plug in a warm/hot pack it will not fully charge.. and stop charging pre-maturely.

 

[andrey320]

Hey thanks for the replies! I actually have been pluging the bike in right after every ride. And this happened toward the end of the ride. I did not know not to do that. And the battery is probably pretty warm. The fram felt a little warm. I won't get to try it for a little while. Going to DC until Monday. I will ride the bike to work tomorrow.
I didn't damage the batteries, did I?
I think I remember reading in the manual, "plug in after ride".

 

[Mathurin]

*drunk typed post been nuked*

 

[knightmb]

Hey thanks for the replies! I actually have been pluging the bike in right after every ride. And this happened toward the end of the ride. I did not know not to do that. And the battery is probably pretty warm. The fram felt a little warm. I won't get to try it for a little while. Going to DC until Monday. I will ride the bike to work tomorrow.
I didn't damage the batteries, did I?
I think I remember reading in the manual, "plug in after ride".

I think the batteries will be fine. The hot batteries just prevent a full charge, confusing the charger and making the range appear to be less than it should since they don't get a full charge.

As you'll find out, the many different battery technologies have different preferences for charging. The Lead Acid (AGM) batteries are sensitive to being left in the discharged state. That's why they all recommend you plug in right after a ride. It's better to shorten the lifespan of the battery than kill it in the first ride is the logic behind this I would guess. The NiMH and Lith battery types are a little more forgiving to this, but if you ask the people here they have their limits as well at being over discharged. That comes from many with personal experience with them.

My experience as been with AGM (lead acid) and NiMH battery types.

For the lead acid, they should be charging almost right away after a ride. They cool down quickly and most smart chargers just charge the pack until it hits a float voltage, and then just trickle to keep the batteries topped off. I haven't had any problems with putting the lead acids right onto the charger after a long ride, even if the battery is warm. If the batteries do feel a bit more than just "warm" then a few minutes of cool down time would be helpful at getting the pack a full charge.

NiMH on the other hand, that's tricky. My NiMH packs get much warmer than my lead acid counterpart bikes, so I often give them between 15 and 30 minutes to cool down in my garage, depends on how hot they are. Just like was said before, the hot temperature confuses the charger. One of the ways that NiMH packs are charged is by monitoring both the voltage and the temperature. You can't really look for a float voltage on NiMH because as you'll read here from others, the voltage changes around during the charge. Also, the temperature of the pack rises as the charge happens. Usually, the pack can be considered "charged" once it reaches a certain temperature and voltage, that's why our NiMH chargers have this "dual" purpose to them with both the power hookup and temperature sensor to stick on the pack.

Lith battery packs, I'll let someone else with more experience chime in their experience. I haven't delved into the world of Litho power just yet :wink:

 

[jondoh]

So far the e-moli lithiums don't care-- warm or cold, it doesn't seem to matter.

 

[xyster]

So far the e-moli lithiums don't care-- warm or cold, it doesn't seem to matter.

Oh sure, rub it in! Those were the cells I wanted, but couldn't afford.

My poor-man's lithium cobalt cells, as opposed to jondoh's fancy-shmancy lithium manganese, slow down significantly in cold weather and can't charge below freezing (battery damage can result as the lithium plates out). They discharge fine below freezing, just not putting out as many amps as when warm.

All the lithium chemistries, so long as operated within spec, run cool like lead batteries. Charge termination of lithium is based on voltage/current detection, not on temperature rise like with NiMH/Nicad.

 

[fechter]

I remember a similar problem with the Voloci Nimh batteries. After a ride they get pretty warm and they need to cool off completely before initiating a charge or the charger will cut out on temperature prematurely.

This effect seems to be worse during the first few battery cycles.

If you're in a hurry to recharge, some kind of cooling fan for the batteries would help.

It would be nice if there was a time delay switch for the charger. Come home and plug in the cycle, and hit the switch. Two hours or so later, the charger starts by itself.

 

[Ypedal]

It would be nice if there was a time delay switch for the charger. Come home and plug in the cycle, and hit the switch. Two hours or so later, the charger starts by itself.

Those are around.. they are called " Timers " ! lol

 

[andrey320]

It would be nice if there was a time delay switch for the charger. Come home and plug in the cycle, and hit the switch. Two hours or so later, the charger starts by itself.

Those are around.. they are called " Timers " ! lol

Thats a great idea fechter and Ypedal! I will get one.

 

[Ypedal]

One thing i should mention..

If you use a timer with the plastic ON/OFF jumpers... every 24 hrs it goes back to ON... bad thing if the pack is already fully charged...

You can use a 2nd timer set with only the OFF switch and plug one timer into another...

Wall outlet - Off timer and - On Timer - charger - bike

Kinda complicated but not that bad.. what you do is set the OFF timer so that it's in an on position.. set it to turn off in say 10 hrs....

Set the ON timer to the off position and to come on in say 3 hrs.....

What happens is that in 3 hrs.. your pack is cool.. the charger kicks in ... and turns off after charging for x hours.... and 10 hrs later the OFF timer shuts everything down.... without the ON pin installed things stay off

Otherwise.. a digital timer can be set for Day / Week / Month events if you want.

:wink:

 

[safe]

Bad Throttle?

I had to switch in my FOURTH throttle now on my bike. This time I took the "cheapo" throttle apart to find that the plastic had broken near where the Hall Effects sensor was and it seems like maybe the magnet was rubbing against the sensor. It "seemed" like the bike was "cutting out" as if it were running out of energy, but I normally only use my SLA's down to 11.8 Volts before recharging. That's about 20 miles of riding.

So I replaced the throttle and all is fine... (it's no wonder they cost only $7 they are just plain junk)

 

[fechter]

One thing i should mention..

If you use a timer with the plastic ON/OFF jumpers... every 24 hrs it goes back to ON... bad thing if the pack is already fully charged...

You can use a 2nd timer set with only the OFF switch and plug one timer into another...

If you had a mechanical timer with the trippers and used only an "on" tripper, the timer would stay on once it started. As long as it doesn't go off, then on again, the charger should behave OK.

When you come back from a ride, dial the timer to two hours (or however long it takes to cool off) before the 'on' tripper and manually turn the timer off. Two hours later, the tripper comes along and turns it on. Batteries charge and the charger takes care of shutting down and going to float. As long as there's no 'off' tripper, the timer will stay on.

 

[Ypedal]

ahh. yes.. very true. as long as the timer never goes " off " the charger will stay on trickle. As long as it's ok to leave your charger on trickle without harming your pack .. then this is fine. 8)