Bird 2 scooter motor voltage

[galenshanks]

I recently lost the 36v battery to my bird 2 scooter due to age. It currently has a 36 volt controller that I put on aftermarket. Since I have to buy a new battery pack can I go 48 volts with the same motor and a 48 volt controller or does the motor require 36 volts only and I would really appreciate any advice on how to make it a little stronger if it is possible or should I stick to the 36v setup. Is the motor capable of more?

 

[stancecoke]

I would really appreciate any advice on how to make it a little stronger

The higher voltage only makes the motor running faster without load. If there is no speed limit set in the controller.
To make it "stronger" in the meaning of more torque, you have to feed the motor with more amps. This is a matter of the controller settings, not of the voltage.
More motor current means more heat, so there is a certain risk of burning your motor, especially at low RPMS.

regards
stancecoke

 

[galenshanks]

The higher voltage only makes the motor running faster without load. If there is no speed limit set in the controller.
To make it "stronger" in the meaning of more torque, you have to feed the motor with more amps. This is a matter of the controller settings, not of the voltage.
More motor current means more heat, so there is a certain risk of burning your motor, especially at low RPMS.

regards
stancecoke

Thank you for your reply. To clarify a simple mind as mine, are you saying that the type of controller I buy is what controls the amperage. If so, can you give me an example in order for me to learn what to look for because I haven no clue what makes one controller different from the other. Sorry I am so ignorant on the subject. I just want to learn and have a scooter that is dependable.

 

[E-HP]

I recently lost the 36v battery to my bird 2 scooter due to age. It currently has a 36 volt controller that I put on aftermarket. Since I have to buy a new battery pack can I go 48 volts with the same motor and a 48 volt controller or does the motor require 36 volts only and I would really appreciate any advice on how to make it a little stronger if it is possible or should I stick to the 36v setup. Is the motor capable of more?

Given that those scooters are pretty much running flat out most of the time, it may even feel more powerful by using a better 36V battery. When you run full throttle, the voltage of your battery will sag, and that sag in voltage proportionally translates to lower power than if the battery were maintaining voltage.
That said, going to 48V with a battery with decent discharge capability, and increasing the controller current rating (controllers are rated by their continuous current capability) from the stock 15A rating to something higher, as long as the new battery is rated at that or higher.
As far as your motor's ability to deal with the increased voltage, that's not really an issue, since motors aren't really rated for voltage, (except for spinning at a rate proportional to the voltage). However, if you run full throttle all the time, you'll probably cook your motor from exceeding it's rated power for too long. Fortunately, you have control over this, but you'll need to have self control over your throttle wrist/thumb, or you'll be back here asking about replacing your motor. In other words, you can enjoy having more power, but not all the time, but if you can't control your wrist/thumb, stick with a better 36V battery.

 

[galenshanks]

Can you please help me by telling me exactly what battery you would recommend to use in this bird 3 scooter. I'm going crazy trying to understand why some 36v 10s3p batteries are so cheap on Ali express and others that appear to be the same are much more expensive. From what I have learned so far is the bird 3 came with 60 cells so I guess that would be a 36v 10s6p but then it says that one thing that made it special was it was good up to 1kw or something. Please lead me to the cheapest possible way to get my scooter back with a comparable performance. PLEASE

 

[E-HP]

Can you please help me by telling me exactly what battery you would recommend to use in this bird 3 scooter. I'm going crazy trying to understand why some 36v 10s3p batteries are so cheap on Ali express and others that appear to be the same are much more expensive. From what I have learned so far is the bird 3 came with 60 cells so I guess that would be a 36v 10s6p but then it says that one thing that made it special was it was good up to 1kw or something. Please lead me to the cheapest possible way to get my scooter back with a comparable performance. PLEASE

You should buy the best battery you can afford. A cheap battery is usually junk. For context, the original battery pack uses LG MJ1 cells. Those cells go for between $6 to $7 per cell, so $360 for the cells alone, not including the hardware and BMS. What is your budget?

 

[galenshanks]

@$100. What about the various batteries on amazon that are all @$100 thart are for m365 scooters. They are only 10s3p half as many cells and 7800mah. Will they perform at all

 

[galenshanks]

@$100. What about the various batteries on amazon that are all @$100 thart are for m365 scooters. They are only 10s3p half as many cells and 7800mah. Will they perform at all

Ps thank you so much for putting up with me

 

[E-HP]

If that’s what you can afford, then there aren’t many options. You can get a pack made with generic Chinese cells to work well within its limitations if you don’t abuse it, but it will die quickly if you push it to its limits. The LG MJ1 cell is good for 10A continuous. A typical generic cell may be good for half that, so less power (30A vs 15A). Like with any battery pack, you should not leave the battery unattended while charging. In the long run you won’t save money, since a well constructed pack made with brand name cells will last a lot longer, and have better performance.
Bottom line, If you can afford it, buy once, cry once. If you go the cheap route, you may end up buying twice, or three times, and be left wanting on the performance side.

 

[galenshanks]

Thanks for your honesty, I was lying to myself knowing that you get what you pay for. Sorry just one last question, when it comes to controllers, should I buy a controller capable of more wattage than I may use in case of upgrade later or does that hurt performance if using less. For example, 36v 350 watt controller vs 36v 1000w

 

[E-HP]

Thanks for your honesty, I was lying to myself knowing that you get what you pay for. Sorry just one last question, when it comes to controllers, should I buy a controller capable of more wattage than I may use in case of upgrade later or does that hurt performance if using less. For example, 36v 350 watt controller vs 36v 1000w

You don't want the controller that demands more current than the battery can supply, to avoid damaging the battery. If the controller is programmable, or has the ability through adjusting parameters, so it can limit the current, then yes, you can buy a controller and limit the power until you upgrade in the future. If not, then it's best to size the controller to match the battery's capability.

 

[galenshanks]

If that’s what you can afford, then there aren’t many options. You can get a pack made with generic Chinese cells to work well within its limitations if you don’t abuse it, but it will die quickly if you push it to its limits. The LG MJ1 cell is good for 10A continuous. A typical generic cell may be good for half that, so less power (30A vs 15A). Like with any battery pack, you should not leave the battery unattended while charging. In the long run you won’t save money, since a well constructed pack made with brand name cells will last a lot longer, and have better performance.
Bottom line, If you can afford it, buy once, cry once. If you go the cheap route, you may end up buying twice, or three times, and be left wanting on the performance side.

If that’s what you can afford, then there aren’t many options. You can get a pack made with generic Chinese cells to work well within its limitations if you don’t abuse it, but it will die quickly if you push it to its limits. The LG MJ1 cell is good for 10A continuous. A typical generic cell may be good for half that, so less power (30A vs 15A). Like with any battery pack, you should not leave the battery unattended while charging. In the long run you won’t save money, since a well constructed pack made with brand name cells will last a lot longer, and have better performance.
Bottom line, If you can afford it, buy once, cry once. If you go the cheap route, you may end up buying twice, or three times, and be left wanting on the performance side.

You don't want the controller that demands more current than the battery can supply, to avoid damaging the battery. If the controller is programmable, or has the ability through adjusting parameters, so it can limit the current, then yes, you can buy a controller and limit the power until you upgrade in the future. If not, then it's best to size the controller to match the battery's capability.

If that’s what you can afford, then there aren’t many options. You can get a pack made with generic Chinese cells to work well within its limitations if you don’t abuse it, but it will die quickly if you push it to its limits. The LG MJ1 cell is good for 10A continuous. A typical generic cell may be good for half that, so less power (30A vs 15A). Like with any battery pack, you should not leave the battery unattended while charging. In the long run you won’t save money, since a well constructed pack made with brand name cells will last a lot longer, and have better performance.
Bottom line, If you can afford it, buy once, cry once. If you go the cheap route, you may end up buying twice, or three times, and be left wanting on the performance side.

I found these would you recommend?

 

[E-HP]

I’ve never purchased used batteries or from Battery Clearing House. You may get better feedback from folks who have bought their packs in the Battery Technology subforum.

 

[amberwolf]

I found these would you recommend?

Not for your purpose. They don't guarantee that they work, so you may have to repair or rebuild them, and that will cost you money to buy all the tools to test and repair them, as well as the parts to do so. This will almost certainly cost more than just buying a good new battery to start with.

Since they're used and already noted to possibly have problems, you'll still need to test the battery for functionality before using it, to be sure the BMS is doing the correct job and is able to shutdown for any cell error conditions (cell HVC, cell LVC, etc) on every cell group. If you don't, the pack could end up failing during use from a BMS letting cells overcharge or overdischarge, or worst case you could even have a fire.

 

[amberwolf]

Thanks for your honesty, I was lying to myself knowing that you get what you pay for. Sorry just one last question, when it comes to controllers, should I buy a controller capable of more wattage than I may use in case of upgrade later or does that hurt performance if using less. For example, 36v 350 watt controller vs 36v 1000w

If you use a higher power controller, then it would have a higher current limit, and that requires a bigger better battery to supply that. Depending on your usage and riding conditions, that might happen only occasionally, but it might happen all the time.

If you use a lower power controller, then it has a lower current limit, and requires less of a battery to do this.

If you need the better performance (higher torque, faster acceleration, better hill climbing) the higher power allows, then you should go for a higher power controller to support it, if your present one does not. But you will also need a battery that can continuously supply that (not just peak or burst), *and* the motor has to be able to do this as well, or it will overheat.