Blinker/Directional lights?

[dequinox]

Image sometimes means safety. I heard of a guy getting run over and mugged just cuz he was wearing a pink jacket...imagine one of our guys riding around a bad part of town holding up traffic on an expensive electric bike with a blinking light on his ass..can you imagine a bigger TARGET? And if you are riding in the wrong neighborhood, riding illegally in traffic, and you use your horn to honk at the wrong person at the wrong time...you could get chased down, run over and beat up even if you had good reason to honk.

And a terrorist could decide to set off a dirty bomb or a biological weapon when they see you riding by in your pink jacket, bright flashing turn signals and little horn...but it sure as hell isn't likely to happen...and you sure as hell aren't at fault for it. Yes there are a-holes that will attack anything that looks a bit different, but is that a reason to stop being what you are? Think about what you stand for and think about whether or not it's worth having a little courage to look however the <insert colorful expletive here> you want to look.

Now, back on topic, well I must confide that I have seen a few bikes here that .... how can I say it politely?... er, uh, well they are Dorksters.
I won't mention any by name (but you dork-bike enablers know who you are!).
It is the dork-like expression of uber-safety paranoia that reeks from each flashy/flashy/sparkly light , super-xtra padded protections, hi-viz mega see-me for Heavens sake, oh my God are you seeing how well prepared for anything I am ... jeez how close do ya think that car just got !!!

I know most here have just the right balance of healthy fear and mighty courage, with just the right touch of safety blinkers and directional lights :lol: , but I think, and it is just my opinion (not a group of conspirators) that maybe a little less mega-saftee-bling would express the riders confidence in his/her ability more. Please: take this the right way. I mean , it's like informing someone their zipper is down, or that they have toilet paper on their shoes, or that one has a booger on ones' face --- well you get my drift?

Feraldog (and greenmachine), you'll note after you are here for a while that most of the people are very reasonable about not JUDGING people for their choices...whether they be wreckless or safety-nerds. These folks will poke a little fun from time to time, or POLITELY voice their concerns for the safety of a fellow rider. Search up Riding Safety and you might find an old thread on dealing with road rage while piloting a bicycle as an example...I can't remember where it is at the moment.

The point is the people here are friendly, know how to have fun, are extremely helpful, very reasonable and VERY worth knowing! Tolerance above all else is emphasized here from what I have seen. People get their say as long as they do it, take ownership, and not say things for the express purpose of pissing others off.

NOW...

Back on topic. I use a pair of standard rear lights, and a pair of bright home-made Cree Q5 LED lamps up front that don't blink. I prefer steady light. As far as signaling at night goes? Screw that. I won't make a move until I am sure the coast is clear. Safety jacket or vest? Not at night, and I consider my daytime riding clothes to be perfectly visible most of the time. At night I figure if the cars don't see my lights then they certainly aren't going to see my jacket.

That's my view on it.

 

[Green Machine]

What the ebike community is missing is more bikes/ guys like this one...and notice no turn signals or horn ...yeah i know this is extreme..this guy standing beside this bike could be the spokesperson for making ebikes mainstream...but they spent a bundle on that bike and all it has is standard (very bright) lights on the front and a standard rear red lights on the back....no turn signal flashers...i mean they put on a ipod doc, a gps the works but no turn signals..why? Death wishers?...this bike comes standard with a tasteful tiny black bike bell on the drivers side...no joke....trust me they could have easily installed a loud horn for what that bike costs...but tasteful is the key. Put big mirrors, turn flashers, and a loud annoying horn, and the entire effect of that bike is ruined...as is (i think) it is super cool.

EDIT: wow just looking into what happened with that bike..That bike is a public relations dream. Check out all the press it got: http://web.me.com/dgdixon/SOHH_Project/Welcome.html ....i actually got a 2 seat version of this bike (zem bike) ready to electrify if anyone wants to take it on ..its just amazing how receptive the public is to an electric bicycle once "image" and "coolness" is finally considered. we could have a revolution if we just lock threads like this one and start new threads on how to make ebikes cooler.

 

[BLUESTREAK]

I know I am old and cannot spell very good and I cannot see very good but I see what looks like rear tail lights that can also be turnsignals.

 

[Green Machine]

I know I am old and cannot spell very good and I cannot see very good but I see what looks like rear tail lights that can also be turnsignals.

Nope.

I have seen this bike and have talked to the builder. They put 2 LEDs on the rear cuz its so wide...but they are just regular bike tail lights.

Front lights are high quality bicycle lights as well.

They wouldnt have "compromised"this bike by putting turn signals..imagine the driver having to think about turn signals while navigating this bike. Imagine the wiring for turn signals to the steering column..etc...

This bike was designed to be ridden like a bike, which means riding in the bike lane or shoulder etc.

They have no vision of pissing everyone off and riding in the middle of the car lane blocking traffic and being an overall nuisance...so they didnt install devices so that they could "talk the same language as cars"....this bike only talks bicycle...thus part of its "cool" factor.

Once someone starts shouting "electric car without license plate" it is over for this vehicle...so no horns, no turn signals, no big truck fog lights on the front, no air bags...no car stuff...and it kind of looks like a car.

Some bikes on this thread are starting to look like motorycles...that is far from stealth..and could shut the whole ebike movement down once one of those behemoths loses control and runs over a child or something. I dont think any "ebike" (on 2 wheels) should weigh over 70 pounds...for safety.

 

[rscamp]

I know I am old and cannot spell very good and I cannot see very good but I see what looks like rear tail lights that can also be turnsignals.

Yes. It would be the perfect way to finish it off AND be uber cool at the same time. It is what anyone in their right mind would do... 8)

 

[Green Machine]

One other big point against turn signals is it seems only a small portion of you guys are installing some kind of indicator to yourself on whether your turn signals are on or not.

If you are going to try to talk the same language as cars, and then convey the wrong signals.....

You guys are playing with fire with this turn signal thing...for safetys sake (and for all the other reasons) you should rip them off.

 

[rscamp]

Even better than regular turn signals would be those sequential ones like they used to have on some older cars - was it the Thunderbird? This would be pretty easy these days with LEDs and the availability of controlling electronics.

Next time...

 

[mrzed]

That 4 wheel thing, though cool, would not be considered an ebike in many jurisdictions (number of wheels means it is not a bike). I would not want to see it on the shoulder, as it is too wide. Even worse on a bike trail with walkers, dogs, kids in strollers etc. It looks more like a very cool engineering student project than a practical vehicle to me.

I agree about weight though. I would rather see weight limited in ebike regulations, as it would discourage the heavy, poor handling scooter style ebikes. And those are the ones that cause a lot of the shared-use problems, as trail users think they are motorbikes, cars don't know what to make of them etc.

No offense to any scooter users meant. I understand the appeal, but it does create a grey area in people's minds if not in the law.

 

[BLUESTREAK]

I don't know if I will live to be a very old man since no male in my family has made it past 68 yrs old,I'm 66 aready but I will make a little $5.00 bet that good lights and turn signals will help the E-BIKE TREND not hurt it. I am not computer savy enough to do it but someone can start a thread and ask if people here would like to us use lights and turn signals or not. if thay could get good systems that were easy to install and fairly cheep.But it is still a matter of one's personal choice to use them or not and which ever way one chooses does not make him into some kind of freek or nut.

 

[FeralDog]

Feraldog (and greenmachine), you'll note after you are here for a while that most of the people are very reasonable about not JUDGING people for their choices...whether they be wreckless or safety-nerds. These folks will poke a little fun from time to time, or POLITELY voice their concerns for the safety of a fellow rider. Search up Riding Safety and you might find an old thread on dealing with road rage while piloting a bicycle as an example...I can't remember where it is at the moment. The point is the people here are friendly, know how to have fun, are extremely helpful, very reasonable and VERY worth knowing! Tolerance above all else is emphasized here from what I have seen. People get their say as long as they do it, take ownership, and not say things for the express purpose of pissing others off.

Oh GAWD, did I make someone cry?
Ohhhh, DOh , I didn't mean too :
dequinox: I find I am unable to express my opinions according to your personal rules. So sorry. WE will have to learn to live with it, even if it pisses you off. Please, If you find a need to wag a finger, I suggest you visit The Cesspool part of this Forum. That "Other Toxic Discussions" has some rowdy bad boyz that I find very funny, but you may find them , well I leave that to you .

 

[nwmtnbiker]

FeralDog,

Actually, Congress has recognized the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's (NHTSA) authority to establish safety regulations for certain ready-made e-bikes. Prior to 2002, the NHTSA asserted authority to regulate safety standards for all e-bikes. In December, 2002, in reaction to lobbying by big bicycle manufacturers who manufacture low-powered e-bikes for a world-wide market, the US Congress enacted Public Law 107-319, which created a category of "low-powered" ready-made e-bikes that would only have to comply with bicycle safety regulations established by the Consumer Product Safety Administration. Under this law, "low-powered electric bicycles" is defined as "a two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph." Ready-made e-bikes that do not meet this standard because they have a more powerful motor or can travel faster than 20 mph must meet moped/motorcycle standards established by the NHTSA. At present, conversion kits aren't covered by these safety regulations, but I expect that to change since such powerful hub motors are being shipped from China.

FYI, Congress has left it up to the states to regulate the operation of e-bikes. NY is the only state that has a total ban. However, many states use the distinctions made for applying federal safety standards to determine which e-bikes are treated as mopeds. Therefore, states like California require an e-bike that has a motor over 750W or can reach speeds over 20 MPH to be licensed and insured as a moped and the operator must be licensed as well. (Yes, those bikes must have signal lights, too.)

 

[Green Machine]

NY is the only state that has a total ban.

So your admitting the water isnt safe. What if California is the next state to do a total ban? I bet california and ny covers nearly half the ebike riding public.

Does anyone know what caused ebikes to be illegal in NY? Thats new news to me...last i heard nyc wheels was one of biggest electric dealerships in country.

I guess bans can happen in a flash...now i am even more concerned. :?

 

[nwmtnbiker]

If you're in the states and complying with your state's laws, then I don't know why you'd be concerned. As far as the NY ban, it's been on the books for quite a number of years. There have been several unsuccessful efforts to amend the law, including during this session of the NY Legislature. All have failed. There was a belief by NYC residents that the ban would never be enforced and retailers have been flaunting the law--that behavior was described in a NY Times article on e-bikes that noted many New Yorkers break the law, it will be interesting to see if the NYC-based shops start to get some unwanted, official attention. However, if you read through the threads on this forum you'll see that there is at least sporadic enforcement of the ban in NYC. Last year one member complained that he was stopped twice in one weekend and that the police threatened to confiscate his e-bike and new Ping battery. However, he may have had a powerful motor that enabled him to ride fast without pedaling; not a wise thing to do in NY.

FYI, the restrictions on e-bikes is more significant in the EU and parts of Asia--maximum legal speeds are very limited.

 

[mwkeefer]

NY is the only state that has a total ban.

So your admitting the water isnt safe. What if California is the next state to do a total ban? I bet california and ny covers nearly half the ebike riding public.

Does anyone know what caused ebikes to be illegal in NY? Thats new news to me...last i heard nyc wheels was one of biggest electric dealerships in country.

I guess bans can happen in a flash...now i am even more concerned. :?

NYC has a ban on Segways and has tried and in some cases (but not all) succeeded in ticketing and confiscating people's eBikes... that said, I know 2 people who faught NYC and won based on the Federal Law prescribing/stating that states can do mostly what they want so long as their restrictions aren't more "stringent" or toughter than the federal guideline.

California just has more politically active people so if eBikes on paths or beaches or streets become an issue, a nuisance (don't ride like an ass) or whatever then... yea you will see a proposition on a ballod however, this is the state with legal medical marijuana and the "Mentalist" so I wouldn't worry too much... if you look back at GoPeds and similar things, there were accidents and fatalities plus Drunks were using them when they got DUI suspended... add that all together and it's the motivation between the laws in most of California (and not all just most, some towns in California allow / tolerate GoPeds and such still just not major towns/cities)... this knowledge isn't mine, it's Steve's from Patmont Motor Works - the GoPed people... I've had many, many hours of conversation with him and his lead technical engineer over the years with regards to the ESR-750 and ESR-750EX design, use of brushed motor, controller design, etc... They are very friendly, helpful and knowledgeable people (imho).

In addition to the winners at court with NYC in regards to eBikes, I should note that many people I know who ride eBikes in a "normal for NYC" bike fashion, have never been bothered by police at all... even at the park and finally that the 1 person I do know rather well who lost at court against NYC.. lets just say he should be a member with his 18S pack and 100A limit, the guy was pushing maximum power near 7500w or just a tad over 10HP... oh yea, and he had a CA which showed the police and the court exactly what his power ability was.... he really couldn't win that fight since his bike wasn't an eBike anymore but more an eMotorCycle with pedals.

I can't believe were not in Toxic topics yet = )_

-Mike

 

[FeralDog]

On topic>>
The USA regs for mandated lights could likely fall between Dept of Transportation (DOT) (as qualified in highway/transportation past-practice experience) and the US Consumer Products Safety Commission. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Consumer_Product_Safety_Commission
The CPSC is the culprit behind those manufacturers regs. for "reflectors" on bikes and bike trailers. http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/bikepubs.html

 

[Green Machine]

Just one more quick point...

The segway scooter is proof that the dork factor can ruin the electric community.The segway did nothing for the stand up scooter..in fact contributed a lot to why the stand up scooter became illegal in many communities (including the entire state of NY.

It only goes 12mph but is totally dorky..and has been potrayed as such in movies, music videos (wierd al video) etc... I hated the segway from the time it came out because i noticed right away this thing is dorky.

Because the Segway is so uncool looking, it really hurt the electric movement...

The segaway is monstrous big (over 100lbs)...think when compared to a simply currie scooter...the segway is slow (think handicapped scooter), built more for safety than function (it only goes slightly faster than you walk), seems like a nice ride for oversized cops...but no 20 something coolster would be caught dead on it.

I think turn signals would fit the segways image perfectly...and i say again...image does count...and affects all of us. That one 4 wheeled bike made in a garage did more for the electic movement with all its positive press than the segaway did with millions of dollars etc...simply because the original concept of the segway was simply flawed because of the dork factor.

 

[nwmtnbiker]

extremegreenmachine,

You're entitled to your opinion, just like the rest of us. We'll never agree. With respect to your last argument, the only electric stand-up scooter I've ever seen an adult ride is a Segway. I've seen teenagers and kids riding other smaller, cheaper electric stand-up scooters. That's the market that it appeals to, not adults. Most of those cheap, small stand-up scooters just didn't have the power to handle adults like the Segway. A stand-up scooter (electric-powered or human-powered) has never been a popular mode of transportation and they aren't street legal, which creates conflict when users try to ride them on pedestrian sidewalks. Most adults I know would pick a bike over a stand-up scooter if those were their only options for transportation. Stand-up scooters were destined to fail because there's no real place to ride them; many communities ban their use on sidewalks and it's understandable. It was dangerous enough when kids weaved around pedestrians on sidewalks on human-powered stand-up scooters; it was disaster waiting to happen with electric versions.

 

[Green Machine]

Stand up scooter just for kids?

I disagree completely. The stand up scooter is perfect for adults getting around a big city where parking etc is a hassle. I have only seen adults on electric scooters in this city..and there are plenty of high powered scooters around. COnsider the Ego for example.

I have 2 electric scooter, a lithium iped, and a lithim gsr750 (both gopeds) and both are excellent tools, and both are illegal thanks to the segway. Both go a legitimate 20mph and both climb most hills in SF. Both are super cool (i think) and both are made for adults (expensive...i think iped is 1700 dollars).

I think the segway is a giant piece of garbage...worthless...an oversized mobilty scooter (electric wheel chair) one of the biggest marketing mistakes of all time and something that will be the butt of dork jokes for years to come. It was a heavy blow to the small electric vehicle movement...stupid as hell. Im not saying turn signals transform your ebike into a mobility device...but your on a slippery slope. The key is when you put safety over having fun...what advantage does the 5k dollar segway have over the 50 dollar bicycle? My Iped is a million times more practical than the segway, A HELL of a lot funner and only weighs 20lbs...i can carry it into the restaurant. I know i know it is not as safe...but im a single engine pilot and have a motorcyle...their are degrees of safety...somethings are worth risking a bit of safety for it...and anyone having fun does it all the time. I guess that is a big point of mine.

As for adults and electric scooters...goped is no dummy and obviously they are marketing there lithium powered scooters to adults..check out there marketing picture..in fact the only one on there website..that guy doesnt look like no kid to me...

 

[nwmtnbiker]

Like I said, we'll never agree. Many communities, such as Honolulu, enacted bans on the use of any stand-up scooters in early 2002, less than 6 months after the Segway was made available for sale. It was the use of generic stand-up electric scooters by children and teenagers who weaved around pedestrians on sidewalks that got all stand-up scooters banned. As for your marketing image, Go-Ped isn't spending much to market the i-Ped these days, not surprising since the rated weight it will cary is 170 lbs, which is more than most adult males weigh (and women don't have much interest in these things). They really seem to be pushing their larger products, including propane and gas-based scooters and gocarts that can carry the weight of the average adult male. If you're so unhappy with how California has regulated stand-up scooters and e-bikes that can travel over 20 MPH (they're classified as mopeds by your state and must be licensed and insured) then you should consider moving elsewhere.

 

[Green Machine]

nwmntnbiker: "in early 2002, less than 6 months AFTER the segway was made available for sale"

Are you kidding me? You dont see the correlation between the ban of electric scooters and the release of the segway? I was there selling thousands of electric scooters a year when the segway was released. What you forget is the segway was being hyped a year before its release...they were trying to make it into the next ipod...the segway was one of those things what was on CNN all the time...it was kind of big news...i think even 60 minutes did an episode on it...what it did was put SEV's in the spotlight...and made us all look like dorks.

The thing came out and it was a huge belly flop...a marketing disaster. A rare case of a concept being completely flawed. No advantage over walking or a 50 dollar bike except for the elderly and the handicapped....no fun. AND, segway tried to massly argue that these small electric vehicles deserved a place on America's sidewalks and bikepaths..that monster weighs 150lbs, who cares if it only goes 12mph and has a horn.."that thing is abnoxious" said the public "i dont want that thing on my sidewalks and bike paths". Thats when legislature came down and made all scooters illegal..why isolate the segway when its probably the safest of all of them? Thats what went wrong right there...thats why i clearly see a correlation with turn signals and horns...sometimes a bad apple ruins it for everybody. Like it or not nearly all of us on this group are either outlaws or bordering on lawlessness...we can all be banned in a second. What if Segway decided next week they would do a few modification and add pedals so there vehicle is suddenly legal everywhere....well then all ebikes wil be banned in a month in most states...bam.

The Segway damaged all of us on this group in my mind and put my store out of business...thats my view on it...and directional lights damage us all...although on a smaller scale.

Oh by the way...goped isnt spending money marketing much of anything today...thats because they are one step from dead. They went from huge megaplayer in the personal vehicle game (thats because at one time gopeds were nearly as cool as skateboards), to a small nitch product based in the desert in nevada...just scraping by. I bet Steve Patmont of goped spits at the segway too...and deserves too.

All it takes is someone to spend millions on releasing a big oversized 150 lb ebike with turn signals and a horn, and mass market it...and ebikes will go the same direction as the scooter...and 8 years later...as is now...people will forget how vital ebikes were at the time.

Did you know V is for Voltage (the site that endless sphere bounced off of) was mostly about electric scooters, with a small subgroup of ebikers. Now 8 years later someone says that electric scooters were just for kids..they have been forgotten by everyone including SEV people...By the way V is for VOltage and myself put on the Anti-Gravity Event in the marin headlands...basically a 50mph race uphill between super stand up scooters. I got tears in my eyes now that someone has publically said that e-scooters are for kids...may it never happen to ebikes....but given things like led turn signals in the works i am not optimisitic.

Notice all the scooters in that event look super cool...because that was the trend then that people were following that V is for Voltage and some others were fueling. Badsey Scooters (the big red beasts), goped stealth, look at the electric skateboards in the background..those were 1k each and cool as shiat....etc. etc. We were ahead of our time in terms of coolness and then the Segway came around and killed us all like a dorkster with a pink hammer.

Just so none completely forgets e-scooters i am attaching pictures from that event. The full suspension monster scooter is my Jackal..the very first one built (I helped TM with the Jackal concept and actually came up with the name Jackal) which i did 50mph uphill during that event (this one was geared super high)...

Is the Jackal safe? Hell no its not...Is it legal? Absoluteyly not but riding through the city i have never been pulled over...add turn signals and brake lights and i bet you i would. And the fun factor of the Jackal... well lets just say its worth the risk just ride with a helmet and some gloves and your safer than on average motorcycle if you ride properly (not mingling in traffic).

 

[Ykick]

Like I said, we'll never agree. Many communities, such as Honolulu, enacted bans on the use of any stand-up scooters in early 2002, less than 6 months after the Segway was made available for sale. It was the use of generic stand-up electric scooters by children and teenagers who weaved around pedestrians on sidewalks that got all stand-up scooters banned. As for your marketing image, Go-Ped isn't spending much to market the i-Ped these days, not surprising since the rated weight it will cary is 170 lbs, which is more than most adult males weigh (and women don't have much interest in these things). They really seem to be pushing their larger products, including propane and gas-based scooters and gocarts that can carry the weight of the average adult male. If you're so unhappy with how California has regulated stand-up scooters and e-bikes that can travel over 20 MPH (they're classified as mopeds by your state and must be licensed and insured) then you should consider moving elsewhere.

You're entitled to your opinion but not your own set of facts:

http://www.goped.com/Products/Iped/default.asp

# Strong enough to carry up to 250 lbs.
# Capable of up to 18 miles range in Econo mode with a 170 lb rider.

170lb rider refers to range not max payload capacity. Confusing and I don't like GoPed but facts is facts.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding things but this is current CA DMV definition:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/scooters.htm

Roads under 25MPH posted limit but nothing about motor size or speed - other than 25MPH max speed roads. Get it?

Segway still baffles me - gotta be some grassy knoll conspiracy stuff in there someplace.

 

[Green Machine]

I forgot to mention i am 200lbs and my iped carries me just fine....up almost all but the steepest hills in SF.

I didn't know where the 170lb capacity came from either...i thought for a sec i have been riding my iped beyond its limitation but never bothered to fact check. Thanks Ykick. I bought my iped used and didnt thoroughly research it before purchasing...got a deal.

The iped is a great machine..except for the price. Fits perfectly in the back of my airplane and thats why i have it. I can fly into places and then zip into town on the iped...takes very little space/weight in my baggage compartment. In fact i am looking for a used 2nd iped if any one knows of one.

If you ever have a need to have a small electric vehicle that is lightweight...i think the iped is as good as it gets...but its very mission specific. Around my house i would way rather take out my electric bike on longer missions...but on shorter missions (going to bar or restaurant a few miles from the house) the iped is perfect.

Both ebike and escooter effectively do the same thing which make my neighborhood a lot smaller...and living in SF i have many world class spots i can visit without the hassle of driving a car and trying to find a parking space. I think everyone in SF should own one or the other..but thats just another one of my opinons.

As far as legality i am sure i am in a gray area with both my iped and 40mph ebike, but because i ride quietly, very aggressivley, but not in the middle of the lane blocking traffic with blinking turn signals on my ass...i dont draw attention to myself, and i doubt i will ever be pulled over. My trick is letting the cars pass me and then trying to tail behind the last car so he can be my safety shield crossing intersections..and that way no one is passing me..if another car comes up behind me i simply get out of his way fast and let him pass...i generally dont like to ride with cars behind me so turn signals would be pointless..and i never ride in the middle of the lane with a car behind me...

 

[Ykick]

I'm sorry about jumping mid-thread here and disturbing a short "peace" - I sometimes find myself wishing to signal a turn by hand but as a standing scooter rider one-handed operation is only for short, easy riding. Most standup scooters need both hands on the bars at all times - a Harley type push button on the left/right thumbs would be best IMO. Also, brake lights (inertial switch activated perhaps?) would be a welcome addition in some of the traffic I find myself riding - especially at night.

Oh, and one more tidbit of news for the folks worried about us in NY state:

NYS Assembly bill numbers FINALLY defining electric bicycles:

A02393
S04014

02/22/2010 passed assembly
02/22/2010 delivered to senate
02/22/2010 REFERRED TO CODES

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A02393&Summary=Y

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=%0D%0A&bn=S04014&Summary=Y

Happy Earth Day!!!

 

[vnick]

You have as much right mingling in traffic as those licensed cars, and mennonite horse buggies, and slow Vespas, and police on horseback (where I live).

And if looking different condones mugging then that is one hell-hole of a city.

Same way as some people think (opinion) that turn signals make them safe...i think they make you unsafe for making you think you have any business mingling in licensed car traffic.

Image sometimes means safety. I heard of a guy getting run over and mugged just cuz he was wearing a pink jacket...imagine one of our guys riding around a bad part of town holding up traffic on an expensive electric bike with a blinking light on his ass..can you imagine a bigger TARGET? And if you are riding in the wrong neighborhood, riding illegally in traffic, and you use your horn to honk at the wrong person at the wrong time...you could get chased down, run over and beat up even if you had good reason to honk.

If you have to get a license plate it ruins the whole experience, I agree with you on that. I don't want any negative attention, that's why I want my e-system stealthy, that's why I ride following all the rules, stopping at stop signs, not dangerously weaving between cars like those couriers and children. The law says a bike has equal rights and responsibilities to any other road vehicle.

Where I live there are no shoulders, you either choose the right lane or the centre lane. Automobiles exceed the speed limit sometimes, and generally ride around 60-70km/h, while I pedal at 40km/h. Some motorists think I don't belong on the road, and it's this road-rage that scares me. That's why I want to add a hub motor to my bike, so it takes less effort to go at high speed and more effort can be channeled to staying safe, so I am more maneuverable in traffic. Not being noticed is dangerous too, that's why I have bright bike lights. For years I wanted to install yellow LED electric turning blinkers and brake lights. Drivers here recognize hand turning signals, thank god they're not that stupid, but sometimes without a bright yellow flash in their peripheral vision they might not notice a hand bent up. And I have at times wanted a loud horn because in traffic with the windows closed they can't hear a bell.

And I have seen people with turning signal lights on non electrically assisted bike. Turn signals help with lane changes. It's safer than releasing the handlebars and diminishing control.

The road-rage motorists experience at seeing a bicycle on the road, which legally has equal rights, stems from intolerance. The same intolerance that causes homophobia, racism, etc.

As for aesthetics, 10 speeds are beautiful, most "mountain bikes" people buy from department stores are the ugliest piece of shit I've seen, yet most people ride them. I'm OK with that. ebikes are only ugly when they are motorcycle or scooter look-a-likes imported from china with weak motors, because there they truly do make them wannabe Hondas. When a person rides an unpainted welded-together hand-built bike frame with battery boxes, it's admirable because evidently this guy achieved something technical, he created that bike.

You keep talking about the need to avoid pissing people off. But how can lawful behaviour in line with all ethics be justified as wrong because it pisses someone off?

They have no vision of pissing everyone off and riding in the middle of the car lane blocking traffic and being an overall nuisance...so they didnt install devices so that they could "talk the same language as cars"....this bike only talks bicycle...thus part of its "cool" factor.

Drivers should not be pissed off at a vehicle because it's on the road and doesn't have 120hp to go as fast as them.

Some bikes on this thread are starting to look like motorycles...that is far from stealth..and could shut the whole ebike movement down once one of those behemoths loses control and runs over a child or something. I dont think any "ebike" (on 2 wheels) should weigh over 70 pounds...for safety.

There are no children on a road. And in many places riding on the sidewalk gets you fined.

 

[dozentrio]

I like ebikes because you don't neeeed no steeenkinn license for 'em! An' no steenkin signal lights either!

thats sarcasm, by the way...

While I have seen quite a few people riding bicycles home from the pub, probably because they lost their license for drinking and driving, I am glad they haven't discovered ebikes yet. Now THAT would be the worst thing for the ebike movement. Irresponsible people trying to exploit the system get nothing but contempt from me, and from society in general. And it is people like that who will eventually make "dorky" directional/signal lights mandatory on ALL bikes. So enjoy the freedom to chose while you can, and try to postpone heavier regulation of ebikes for as long as possible by being responsible.

Signal lights are something I'd love to add to my bike. But it's a work in progress.