Blinker/Directional lights?

[Green Machine]

Dont be so combative to an alternative insight.

I am just playing devil advocate to a thread with 50 posts. Just trying to save some souls from unnecessary embarrassment and maybe help the community go mainstream a little bit..

My point is directional lights are completely unnecessary and uncool. You are insinuating that you want to ride the same way as a car does..in the middle of the lane holding up traffic. Why else would you need directional lights if you plan to ride on the shoulder. DIrectional lights give you the false sense of security that you can mingle with traffic and be safe. You need to ride like a bike and avoid cars....there is an entire art to riding a bicycle in traffic...and its not being an ebike dork installing directional lights and a horn and taking traffic head on...get a license plate if you want to contend with that BS....By the way...riding without directional lights on a motorcycle is NOT illegal...part of the motorcycle test is to learn hand signals in case your bike doesnt have turn signals.

Now if you have directional lights and you ride in the bike lane, your going to piss off the real "bicyclist"...why should you be able to ride in the bike lane with a motorized bike? I dont know if you have noticed, but riding any electric bike that goes over 20mph is "illegal" in most states....but there exists a dont ask dont tell policy. Dont throw it in the face of cops etc that you are on a motorized vehicle and exist harmonously with cars and bicyclists. Install turn signals and a horn, install a huge ugly ass battery pack duct taped to your triangle and a noisy RC motor, with your ghetto wiring all over the bike and you are going to get nothing but negative attention....you need a license plate to ride that way, and your bike i can guarantee is nowhere close to licensing in this country...and your still going to piss many people off...whether your riding with car traffic or bike traffic. Dont make waves.

Where if you had just been cool about it and rode without your horn and your bicycle lights they might not have noticed you were on an ebike...or cared.

What real bike has turn signals? What fraction of real bikes have turn signals? How can you say that when I have never seen a pedal bike with turn signals ever...and i see bikes everyday. You want to make turn signals a requirement for all bicycles? Do you really believe that garbage? Why not demand full face helmets and safety goggles while your at it.

Its things like directional lights, cruise controls, dorky mirrors, and triangle batteries that are ruining any chance of the ebike becoming an acceptable part of the bike world.

Wake Up....i am just giving you an alternative view here...i may be wrong...but i doubt it.

 

[rscamp]

One thing I have found is that you absolutely, positively, MUST have some sort of alert that the turn signal is on.

Since I have front and rear signals, I can see them blinking and so I know they're still on.

Yes, that's a more proper way of doing it. Maybe next year for me...

 

[Green Machine]

One thing I have found is that you absolutely, positively, MUST have some sort of alert that the turn signal is on.

Since I have front and rear signals, I can see them blinking and so I know they're still on.

How about this...if you wear a skirt and ride side saddle...you might look at your behind and find you have turn signals on...if not dont worry about it. Riding side saddle is also conducive for checking out your own rear end to see if its blinking.

 

[FeralDog]

Your a dork if your Mommy still dresses you.

As far as lights on a bicycle. Depends on the bike.
Example: Dork on Big Red bike w/lights >>>

Internet urban legend sez' that Dorkster bike sold for $17,000 USD

My take on lights.
Minimalist.

 

[swbluto]

I love my e-bike, turn signals, horn, lights, flashers, brake lights and all.

No kidding. I love looking like a dork if it keeps me from being dead.

 

[FeralDog]

I love looking like a dork if it keeps me from being dead.

Nope.
Dorkieness is not the path to immortality.
Makes it harder to get laid too, unless it's by a fem-dork.
All dorks must someday die.
Except for zombie dorks.
BUT, if ya dies as a dork , then you do get a free Dead Dork T-shirt.

I'm pretty sure you can be buried with blinker & directional lights too.
Interment with Lithium batteries may light your way to the other side .... SLA's will burden your pallbearers ...

 

[Green Machine]

Just say no to Directional Lights.

and

Friends do not let friends ride with directional lights and horns.


Someone should lock this thread before it does any more damage. If we want to talk safety someone should start a thread about helmets and gloves.

 

[swbluto]

unless it's by a fem-dork.

If by fem-dork you mean fem-nerd, ahhhh, the perfect kind.

 

[dequinox]

Dont be so combative to an alternative insight.

I am just playing devil advocate to a thread with 50 posts. Just trying to save some souls from unnecessary embarrassment and maybe help the community go mainstream a little bit.

Wake Up....i am just giving you an alternative view here...i may be wrong...but i doubt it.

"Alternative insight" implies that your posts actually possessed something called "insight." Subjects such as "dorkyness" being "uncool" are built highly on opinion. The posts you have placed on this forum contain pure opinion. If you're that concerned with your image and saving the image of others, you'd better save souls elsewhere because nobody I've read posts from here is too worried about looking a bit dorky. They are more secure with themselves than you are. Yes, there are those who put a lot of beautiful artistry into their bikes and make them look fantastic, and those who kludge them together with bailing wire and duct tape (not to name any names... Amberwolf :lol...but we all love building ebikes and issues such as safety and visibility are of real concern to a lot of us. But I digress... the true point is that if you have no useful input other than your opinion (which you apparently consider gospel).... I am personally not interested. No, I don't speak for anyone else here.

Oh, and the mainstream is the last place I want to be...especially if it means associating with highly conceited individuals who are unable to comprehend their own narcissism.

 

[Green Machine]

Man i am hitting some soft spots...some guys are no fun at all. I am afterall just trying to help.

I started out by simply stating my opinion..that turn signals were a threat to our entire community. Someone asked me to explain my point so I did as honestly as i could. Someone questioned why i thought that way and i explained further. I am doing my best here to provide my viewpoint which i guess is an alternative insight...i dont know why.

Not looking silly is a worthy thing to consider...if someone says something your doing is projecting silliness you should atleast consider an alternative perspetive. One poster said firefighters and cops wave at him and thank him for his turn signals...dont you think that sounds like a scene from a pee wee herman scit? I mean there is a good possibility that some people in our community are being laughed at behind there backs....i cant point that out? Form over function, image does count. We should not condone duct tape on bikes either.

I cant help that i care about my community and the appearance it projects...also i care about SAFETY.

Same way as some people think (opinion) that turn signals make them safe...i think they make you unsafe for making you think you have any business mingling in licensed car traffic.

I wish someone would name me one situation where turn signals/brake lights would make you safer than a standard headlight and taillight.

And...

Image sometimes means safety. I heard of a guy getting run over and mugged just cuz he was wearing a pink jacket...imagine one of our guys riding around a bad part of town holding up traffic on an expensive electric bike with a blinking light on his ass..can you imagine a bigger TARGET? And if you are riding in the wrong neighborhood, riding illegally in traffic, and you use your horn to honk at the wrong person at the wrong time...you could get chased down, run over and beat up even if you had good reason to honk.

I think Horns and turn signals on bikes are obnoxious...and someday its going to force the hands of the regulators to force us all to get licenses for our ebikes...thats just my opinion i could be wrong. But i feel strongly that directional light on ebikes should be nipped in the bud before it really damages our community.

I am really suprised that it took 50 posts for someone to point out something blaringly obvious....directional lights and horns on bikes are a nuisance...I know someone out there was thinking the same thing they just didnt type it. Yes i think i am a salvation for lost souls.

Ok Ok...Constructive feed back...How about turn signal jackets...they kind of look stylish. And no ugly wires.

Newly designed in china...


Check it out...

Kind of cool....kind of. I bet Lance Armstrong wouldn't wear one...

 

[amberwolf]

Dont be so combative to an alternative insight.

I'm not, because it isn't.

I'm opposing *anyone* trying to get others (who may not know anything about safety yet but are trying to form an opinion, but are easily swayed by "perception" statements) to not use safety equipment of *any* kind based solely on someone else's opinion of it's perceived appearance.

I am just playing devil advocate to a thread with 50 posts. Just trying to save some souls from unnecessary embarrassment and maybe help the community go mainstream a little bit..

No, you're not. You're being a troll, attempting to incite pointless arguments. It isn't going to help a thing to convince people to not use safety lighting of any sort.

You are insinuating that you want to ride the same way as a car does..in the middle of the lane holding up traffic. Why else would you need directional lights if you plan to ride on the shoulder.

Not "insinuating" anything. Directly stated what I meant. Also, riding or driving on the shoulder is not even legal, AFAIK (at least not here), but there is no need to hold up traffic, if riding properly with it. I am not going to explain to a troll any further, since you are not going to listen anyway. My only regret in not having time to continue to explain the problem with your statements is that others may be influenced by them and end up at hazard.

You want to make turn signals a requirement for all bicycles?

Nope. I said, more than once, it's a choice. Just like any other safety equipment. (Except for places that already do require such things, though I think it should be a choice there, too).


EDIT (ADDED): OK, "troll" is too harsh, and I apologize for that. But I STRONGLY disagree with the *way* you are stating your points, as if they are absolute fact and that all people must do what you say, when they are quite clearly (to me) opinion (and misguided at that).

 

[rscamp]

Getting back on topic for this thread...

I have received comments since installing the system a few days ago concerning the brake light. Riders behind me get an instant indication of braking. This is a benefit as a hand signal isn't possible with any fast stop because both hands are on the brakes.

 

[BLUESTREAK]

Good job AMBERWOLF I am with you about trying to use all of the best equipment to make your self seen when riding and people are always interested in my bikes with turn signals and brake lights. This is what seems to make people more likely to get in to E-BIKING and time will tell if this is the right thing to do.

 

[rscamp]

Bluestreak.

What's your plan for the LED strings you ordered?

 

[BLUESTREAK]

HI RSCAMP: I am going to put them on my trikes and bikes and my BIG VECTRIX ELECTRIX SCOOTER. I have learned over the years that the more visable you are the safer you are. Those are nice big strobe leds and the cheepest price I have ever seen. I am glad this post was started.

 

[mrzed]

EDIT (ADDED): OK, "troll" is too harsh, and I apologize for that. But I STRONGLY disagree with the *way* you are stating your points, as if they are absolute fact and that all people must do what you say, when they are quite clearly (to me) opinion (and misguided at that).

I was thinking the same word as you here, but trolling is a thing of intent, not content. And the content here sure looks like trolling, but I almost wrote the same thing before thinking that the poster may actually believe what he is saying. The intent is somewhat ambiguous.

But extremegreenmachine: your posts do seem awfully like you are just trying to just stir up turds.

I have a foot in either side of the signals debate. On my bike, I don't think I'd use them, because I think that riding defensively is more important, and knowing where the cars are.

I also pull my kid in a trailer. This reduces my maneuverability, and increases my width. It also means my hand signals are further visually from the end of my vehicle. For the trailer, I think turn signals would work. I think recumbents would also benefit due to the riding position and reduced maneuverability.

 

[FeralDog]

Conform or be cast out?
Trolling. Now synonymous for dis-agreeing with the majority?

extremegreenmachines post were valid within the rules of this Forum. I found his presentation somewhat controversial. Somewhat out-of-the-box, but well explained and cohesive.
Is that not the essence of discussion here?

So now epic battle, trolls versus dorks?
To arms , er , I mean blinkers .... Safety Dorks to the rescue, "troll" thoughts encroach >>>

 

[amberwolf]

Conform or be cast out?
Trolling. Now synonymous for dis-agreeing with the majority?

No; I apologized for the name-calling; it was uncalled for. I also said in the apology itself what I have a problem with--not the opinion, but the way it is presented.

 

[rscamp]

HI RSCAMP: I am going to put them on my trikes and bikes and my BIG VECTRIX ELECTRIX SCOOTER. I have learned over the years that the more visable you are the safer you are. Those are nice big strobe leds and the cheepest price I have ever seen. I am glad this post was started.

Just to light them up at night? What is your source of power?

I'm using a separate 3s LiPo at the moment but I will change to a 36-72V in, 12V out DC-DC converter so the lights will run off the main battery pack. The main pack is a 12s2p 10Ah LiPo. My backup pack is a 10s LiPo also used in a Logo 600 heli...

 

[FeralDog]

Now, back on topic, well I must confide that I have seen a few bikes here that .... how can I say it politely?... er, uh, well they are Dorksters.
I won't mention any by name (but you dork-bike enablers know who you are!).
It is the dork-like expression of safety paranoia from each flashy/flashy/sparkly light , super-xtra padded protections, hi-viz mega see-me for Heavens sake, oh my God are you seeing how well prepared for anything I am ... jeez how close do ya think that car just got !!!

I know most here have just the right balance of healthy fear and mighty courage, with just the right touch of safety blinkers and directional lights :lol: , but I think, and it is just my opinion that maybe a little less mega-saftee-bling would express the riders confidence in his/her ability more.
In brief--- hey, wait, I've just realized that dorkie -

- is just as subjective as safety !

Never mind what I just said. Forget it . Carry on. Move along folks nothing to see here.

 

[BLUESTREAK]

HI RSCAMP: I am using a 36-72 volt dc-dc convertor from (THUNDERSTRUCK MOTORS.COM) hoooked to my battery pack and I have a 1-1/2in x1-1/2in x 5in. lifpo4 pack to power my alarm system. works good. GOOD DAY

 

[Green Machine]

Conform or be cast out?
Trolling. Now synonymous for dis-agreeing with the majority?

extremegreenmachines post were valid within the rules of this Forum. I found his presentation somewhat controversial. Somewhat out-of-the-box, but well explained and cohesive.
Is that not the essence of discussion here?

Thanks Feral Dog....i was really starting to think i had joined the wrong forum. They asked me to explain why i think what i do, i take the time to explain as clearly as i can why i think what i do, and i totally just get flamed..ouch. By the way your attachments are hilarious.

And by the way i got a lot more than just opinions to offer, i actually once owned the biggest electric bike store / scooter shop in the country, and have developed/imported some amazing small electric vehicles along the way. I was building lithium powered bicycles and scooters 10 years ago (thats how my first store burned down). i did 70 mph at a nedra drag event on a etec powered electric pocket bike....10 years ago. I know that anything in our store that looked like a motorcycle (turn signals etc) were absolutely our worst sellers...and one time we got in trouble with the DMV (they actually sent over an investigator) for one patricular vespa like electric scooter because they said i couldnt sell it unless i got it licensed. I learned an important lesson...the more a vehicle looks licensable..the more it deserves to be licensed...and give up now if you think a home made bike is every going to be DMV licensable...you will never pass the dmv inspection...your not safe enough

I just passionately believe that turn signals, brake lights, and horns are obnoxious ..and because they are so blinking bright etc they draw negative attention to our community. We are skating on the fringes of legality....and if enough people put enough directional lights on there bike it could lead to forced licensing.

In terms of the dork factor....Nothing says wanna be motorcycle rider more than turn signals and horns. If you have some jankey ugly ebike set up and you add directional lights...it just looks like you couldnt afford a motorcycle...poor mans motorcycle without a license plate....and you suddenly dont fit in with anyone...cars, bicyclists, or motorcycles...i dont see how anyone is going to like the idea of you riding in their traffic...your going to piss everyone off. You know what you look like? Some guy who lost his drivers license to a DUI...thats a terrible thing to look like.

On the other hand, If you have the most aesthetically pleasing e-bike on the planet...lets just say the opti-bike...add turn signals and a horn and with one bad decision you ruin the entire affect of the bike. I think optibike would have grounds to sue you for just riding around looking so silly on one of their super cool bikes. I mean what a terrible waste.

My most important point is that the more stealth an ebike is, the better it is for you, and the better it is for our community.Stealth is what makes ebikes so usable...people mistake you for a bicycle and everything is just Kosher. If you want to ride with all the safety equipment...please...just buy an electric vespa or electric motorcycle, and drive around with a license plate..it is the right thing to do. I would never go that direction, and in the bike i am building am keeping it stealth. I like mingling with bicyclysts in the bike lane, on the shoulder....i dont want to mix it up with cars..with or without turn signals. You will never see me in a left turn lane acting like a car...i ride more defensively and since i live in San Francisco i know i am taking my life in my hands riding in traffic..i know from experience some people around here cant drive. I avoid cars like the plaque. Even on a loud motorcycle your not safe..ebikes are small and silent and have no business mingling in car traffic...none.

SOme of the pictures of bikes i have seen on this thread are downright repulsive because they looks so blatantly like motorized vehicles to start with..and with turn signals they look sooo soo tacky. Im sorry i think appearances are important.....

If your bike goes over 20mph, you owe it to all of us to be low key about it...no flashing lights or horns. How about just bicycle lights and a bell...in terms of safety you cant do better than that...just get really bright bicycle lights.

You want some facts to back up my argument? Remember go-peds (the gas powered ones) they were the hottest thing about 10 years ago. Now the company is struggling to survive because in california they were suddenly made non-street legal (california is biggest market for small motorized vehicles)...right now you guys think thats cool because goped now forces on making electric scooters (which barely sale), but as soon as the regulators figure out that there exists 40mph electric bicycles/scooters out there...they could instantly add electric vehicles to the same regulation. I guarantee most of the general public does not want to see motorized vehicles of any kind in their bicycle lanes...we are just steps away from going the same direction as the goped. You use to see goped riders every day...now they are almost non existant. If you have to get a license plate to ride one it ruins the whole scene.

I am not just trying to troll or start fights...i am really trying to make you guys understand a valid argument here.

And some of the statements i am getting just sound super ridiculous. For example it is illegal to ride a bicycle on the shoulder...i mean this guy really already believes he is a motorcycle.... And somehow i am the ridiculous one just because i am presenting a counter argument.

The Mind is like a parachute, it doesn't work correctly if it doesn't open.

 

[amberwolf]

We are skating on the fringes of legality <snip>

See, this is the kind of statement I don't understand, and why I have a problem with the way you state things. Ebikes, at least in many places, are not "on the fringes of legality", as long as you build and operate them within whatever legal limits are set. Some places they are not legal at all, of course, and some they already must be licensed (as mopeds/etc) or one must have a license to operate them.

If you are operating yours "on the fringes of legality" then the correct fix to that is to stop doing so, not to advocate that others who *do* operate within the law not to use safety devices to even further prevent accidents.

I think optibike would have grounds to sue you for just riding around looking so silly on one of their super cool bikes.

Then you make statements like this, which are just plain silly, and they make much of the rest of what you say appear less valid. No one would have grounds to sue anyone for such a thing.

Stealth is what makes ebikes so usable...people mistake you for a bicycle and everything is just Kosher.

Ah, but you are perhaps missing the point: an ebike, in most places, *is* a bicycle, for legal purposes, and in the eyes of other riders (except perhaps the "lycra crowd". And is already "kosher". Anywhere it is not kosher you should not be riding one anyway, as doing illegal things such as riding one where they are not allowed is more likely to garner the negative reactions and legislation you are speaking of than anything like making the personal choice of adding lighting or other safety equipment.

If your bike goes over 20mph, you owe it to all of us to be low key about it...no flashing lights or horns.

If your bike goes over 20mph, and you are in an area where that's not legal, you should be ensuring that you are not *breaking the law* by riding faster with your assist than is legally allowed, and then maybe you'd have a better chance of not causing the legal ramifications you are speaking of.

How about just bicycle lights and a bell...in terms of safety you cant do better than that...

Yes, you can, and that is the point of using the same lighting that other traffic uses--it allows the same language to be used between all road vehicles. Do you think that there are enough other *bicycle* riders out there that even know what hand signals mean, much less other traffic (wherever you are riding, road or not), including pedestrians, that just using those hand signals is going to properly communicate your intentions and prevent accidents? Just your own awareness of the path around you is not always enough, and others knowing your intentions, after you've communicated them in a universal language, is much safer than just having "bicycle lights and a bell".

<snip> as soon as the regulators figure out that there exists 40mph electric bicycles/scooters out there...they could instantly add electric vehicles to the same regulation.

If you ride at 40MPH in a place where that is not legal or safe, then I would expect such consequences to occur. So don't do that.

It has nothing to do with having safety lighting or equipment--it has to do with how YOU OPERATE your vehicle. All it takes is one person to be breaking the law and/or causing unsafe situations by riding at speeds above those allowed to draw the attention you're trying to avoid. So don't do that.

There already *are* regulations in place here in AZ to prevent operating *any* assisted bicycle over 20MPH. Probably there are in CA, too, and most other places. If you operate it faster than that, it's classed as a moped or motor-assisted cycle, or motorcycle, and you'd have to have all the things expected of those vehicles, including the license to operate one. No need to worry about anyone *adding* such regulations.

If you have to get a license plate to ride one it ruins the whole scene.

I don't disagree with this one bit. But I think you are missing the point of which battle to fight. You should be advocating proper riding, following the legal limits, rather than trying to get people to not use safety equipment that might save lives at some point.


I am not just trying to troll or start fights...i am really trying to make you guys understand a valid argument here.

And some of the statements i am getting just sound super ridiculous. For example it is illegal to ride a bicycle on the shoulder...i mean this guy really already believes he is a motorcycle....

It *is* illegal to ride on the shoulder, in some (perhaps many) places, as the shoulder is not part of the road surface to be used except in emergency situations, or for parking, etc., depending on the laws of the area. The active road surface is the traffic lanes, be they bicycle lanes or regular width lanes. There have been a number of problems in some areas (such as Phoenix, Scottsdale, and Ahwatuhkee here in the valley) where bike *paths* exist on major roadways (due to lack of any other roadway to go thru the area) that don't have an actual bike *lane*, but do have a marked shoulder that is *not* marked as a bike *lane*. Cyclists (regular unassisted ones as well) have been hit in those shoulders because vehicles are not expected to be there, and there is not enough room for the entire rider and vehicle to ride on them--they're typically not wide enough.

If in your area the shoulders are designated as places for bikes to be ridden, that's fine, but they aren't here and in other places.

I assume by "this guy" you are referring to me, but even if not, I don't think anyone responding in this thread believes they are a motorcycle or that they are riding one. Again, you're making opinion statements as fact, and trying to use those to push your opinion to people that are likely to be swayed into bad decisions because of it. That's the problem I and probably others are having with your statements so far.

And somehow i am the ridiculous one just because i am presenting a counter argument.

No, it is the *way* you are presenting the counter argument, with opinions presented as fact, etc.

If you don't like safety lights, don't use them. If you don't like riding on the road with traffic, don't. If you don't think others should use them, or ride with traffic (especially since this is *required* in some, perhaps many, places), present evidence as to why they should not--don't use opinion as evidence to convince them.

 

[Green Machine]

Amberwold,

All our posts are made up of opinions including your own. Why dont you name some incidents where turn signals saved your llife if you are so sure they are legitimate safety equipment? I told you i cant think of a single incident where turn signals would make you safer in traffic...turn signals are used by cars and motorcycles that drive at highway speeds, do lane changes, etc. If you are really going under 20mph like the law says, dont you think turn signals do nothing except make you look dorky?

They seem like abnoxious blinking gadgets to me..i am giving an opinion that they look silly and you would save a lot of face by just ripping them off your bike...of course that is opinion.

As for facts i told you i witnessed the rise and fall of gas and electric scooters in my city...I sold thousands of scooters and watched them become illegal in the course of 2 years...so i think i do have some experience to explain why my opinions are so passionate.

I am getting arguments like you guys like "you are going to become some giant splat on the pavement and then dont cry to us"...to me i am on the sane side of the fence here.

Just because an opinion is different from your own you cant suddenly say "opinions are not allowed"....how interesting would the internet be if only pure facts were allowed?

By the way...are you the poster who said that you get cops and firefighters waving at you and thanking you for your cool turn signals??

If goped put furn flashers on there scooters i bet they would have been illegal a lot faster....

 

[mwkeefer]

Guys,

Can't we all just get along?

Seriously though there are in place (in the USA) federal laws since 2002 which move eBikes (<= 20mph w/ 170lb rider on flat, 1hp/750w) from Vehicular regulation into common electrical consumer device qualification... this same US federal law further goes on to give states all the regulation power they want so long as they don't attempt to enact more stringent (lower speed, power, etc) than the federal ebike specs/regulations.

This is a paramount to this "argument" because the DMV has no and never will have any veto/inspection/registration authority of an eBike which meets the Federally adopted criteria. Though the federal criteria can change at any moment, as of now I believe the minimum requirements for night riding are headlamp and tail light or reflector visible for 500 feet - that's it for safety equipment and as of now ALL THAT STATES COULD REQUIRE.

Now... I've seen some safeT bikes and yep they look awful, I actually can see now how a badly built eBike could have you looking like a guy/girl with a DUI suspension... LOL (I have a few guys here who fit the bill... usually drunk, sweating badly and with bread box style bike racks.. AW).

I can also add that I had an experience with an officer from my local town the other night - he addressed me via his PA system to "GET OUT OF THE ROAD" and then when I complied and approached him to inquire as to what I had done that had been incorrect (I dual front and rear fleas, 2 of them in alternate blink on the rear of this particular bike and it's capped at 20mph of assist so it is legal) - this led him to threaten me with all sorts of tickets from "Incorrect address" on my license (because I have more than one home) to driving a motor vehicle without inspection, without insurance, without proper safety equipment, etc... Now I could not argue with this guy, he was very similar to the drivers I experience daily who just have to pass a bicycle even if it's doing the speed limit, you all know the type! The following day I approached his superiors whom I had already educated nearly 2 years ago on these matters and many of whom have ridden my bikes (several police departments have interest in trunked folding police ebikes which I have been working to develop with them)... after a 5 minute conversation I received a phone call from the officer and his attitude was much different... The long story short, he was going to fast and didn't see me so he nearly hit me... this frustrated him. He didn't use those words and we all know had I been the driver I would have been stopped since you must always be in control of your vehicle but the point was it scared him and he reacted just like one would anticipate an officer to react (boy do I wish I had been on my hard rock, he wouldn't have kept up or noticed me) so I don't fault him... it did take a bunch of balls to call me an essentially appologize and in truth I may have had attitude in my voice (who knows, it was late for me and I was sick... just running to get food but on my 100% legal ebike).

The moral of the story is - I have to agree with the whole stealth is better for us approach, even though this incident resolved itself fine and it was my first incident worth mentioning (most cops are just interested in the bikes, they don't want to bust anyone's balls and don't care how fast they can go... for the most part, the police think they are awesome) with the police.

That said - I do believe for a well built eBike, clean and simple (read that as BRIGHT and TINY) LED style turn indicators and brake indicator is a really nice idea... but I do agree it will increase the likelyhood people will have encounters such as I did the other night - with the equipment like turn signals and real brake indicators, police will not only notice and stop us more but in addition they will (wrongly) believe that because it has the equipment it should be registered and licensed.

The first words out of this officers mouth were to the effect of ... I returned to the station and brushed up on motor vehicle code again... in other words, they really don't know what the law is in the instant much of the time... even when they do, they as officers are only aware of their local or state code unless they have ebikes, have stopped someone like me who will return and educate the department, etc... They can't be expected to know the federal laws (carrying this on paper in a handlebar bag or in your wallet isn't a bad idea) and believe me... though 99% of officers who stop you may be willing to look at a piece of paper that tells them they are wrong and can just let you go along... there will be the 1% who won't want to listen (and they will not, don't even try... go to their supervisor the following day) in that instant situation (more like 30% but I'm trying to be positive).

Now... my final point - turn signals and traffic lights are useful but ONLY when the rider/cyclist is using the Vehicular Cycling method of taking control of an entire lane otherwise cars will pay little mind to your signals (and little mind to you)... done right, this may bring more attention to you from the police (especially if you ride like an asshat) but it could very likely save your life... so, I have to side with the addition of lights / indicators and brake light (especially) as standard equipment but we need nicer solutions than what exist now commercially (I am working on a lighting controller with an accellerometer to detect brake condition and end of turn condition) instead of requiring brakes to be wired up... makes it a bit cleaner, also when possible I mount LEDs into the rear and front fenders and run the wiring on the bottom side (with some duct tape to retain them)... you can't even tell I have lights till I hit a switch on the bars and they fire up... Just a design integration hint ... It works with racks also = )

Again - can we all just get along?

-Mike

PS:

I have a GoPed ESR 750 EX which I rode every day from 2/2005 until 10/2007 when a local detective tried to tell me it was illegal since it was technically a motor vehicle, I pled my case to him and he wrote me up for 4 tickets (insurance, inspection, registration and somthing else). I lost that case and bought a Segway (which they couldn't argue with) for my .8mi commute from home to work or train station twice daily - now I've moved to e-bikes and when the issue with local PD arose again (even after I pre-authorized/edumacated them about the federal laws - christ sake, I build these for locals out of my store front in my local town... what kind of idiot opens for business even part time and doesn't smooth things with the local PD first?) it was resolved quickly and to my satisfaction (somthing resembling an appology and the awareness of the actual Federal Laws which take prescidence over PA state motor vehicle code thus exempting eBikes from licensing, registration, safety equipment, etc.) so I figure this is really a bit different than a goped and I have the experience to know = )