Bonanza "Bulldozer" Dual PhaseRunner AWD

[Alan B]

Marin Headlands ES Ride

Survived the ES ride today. Made it up the "steep hill" to the peak. Motor got fairly hot due to the rough deeply rutted gravel and dirt road and grade. Need to have a motor temperature sensor!

Met lots of fun ES folks, some of whom have seen this thread. Thanks!

Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread, both by making suggestions and asking questions!

This morning I mounted a CellLog onto one of my DB9 charging boards. So it just plugs into a battery bank and reads out the cell voltages. Really handy for reading cells in the field!

One Plug Charging Solution

I also received some of Geoff57's SMD LVC boards on friday. They are small! I think the bike should have LVC onboard. Balancing and full BMS is a bit much for an ebike with so little space. One way to go is to use the SMD LVC onboard, and then use the TPPacks BMS with a bulk charger (or power supplies) to make a single plug (or 2 plug) charging solution. The (somewhat large) TPPacks boards can stay with the charger and not be on the bike!

Typical "ES eBike Look"

Extremegreenmachine told me that my build looks too "ES" like. Instead I should empty the triangle and put the batteries and controller in the trunk pack and hide the wiring so it didn't look like an "ES Bike". I'm trying to keep the trunk free for gear, and keep the "stuffings" near the CG. Hopefully when I cover the triangle it won't attract as much attention as the waterfall of wiring in the triangle does now.

I did get a lot of complements on the build and we discussed various ways of handling the wiring and connectors. Some folks had problems with connectors and BMS's. One suggestion I have is to make sure you can bypass your BMS easily if necessary. Today it was necessary and it was not easy so it took time and made it difficult for one rider to get his ebike up the steep hill.

A couple of other comments on connectors. Make sure that your connectors have a good solid physical connection as well as a good solid electrical connection. (Note that Solder is a poor conductor and a marginal physical connection). Make sure connectors are being used well within their ratings. Make sure the plugs cannot easily be plugged together wrong (proper polarization). Make sure they have covers that prevent accidental shorts. That's my advice. Deviate at your own risk.

The other day a tree fell and took out our power drop. PG&E came out and re-connected it. They did not solder the wires. At work we have hundreds of high powered magnets to control the electron beam we use to make intense light for science experiments. These power supplies and magnets have hundreds of amps flowing continuously, in some cases nearly a thousand amps. They do not use soldered connections. Some of the cables and many of the magnets have hollow conductors with cooling water flowing inside them. They do not use soldered connections. Just a thought.

I used about 5.5 amp hours (of 10) on this ride. Most on the way up. We climbed over 1,000 feet as I recall in about 5 miles. Total trip was about 10 miles for me. At one point I looked and it was running 44 watt hours per mile. That was on pavement. It was worse on the dirt.

The rain held off nicely for today's outing. But it is making up for it now.

 

[mr.electric]

I Like the key switch board idea very much. It reminds me of the component on a modern car called the gateway ecu. On an ebike the controller is more similar to the engine ecu. A gateway ecu controlls all the communication between the bigger ecus that are dedicated to controlling a large complex system like transmission ,engine or hybrid system. The gateway ecu brings everything together and reads the smart key to authorize the driver to start the car.
I made a nice on/off precharge circuit with Fechter's help. One cool feature was the on/ off sequence. Flip a switch to "on " then press and hold a button to enable now the ready light comes on and you can drive. Precharge starts when you flip the switch to on. The contactor/ relay closes when you press the momentary button. Once you flip it to off it will not accidentally turn on by flipping a little handlebar mounted switch since you still need to press the button to enable. The light reminds you that it is on.

 

[Alan B]

I Like the key switch board idea very much. It reminds me of the component on a modern car called the gateway ecu. On an ebike the controller is more similar to the engine ecu. A gateway ecu controlls all the communication between the bigger ecus that are dedicated to controlling a large complex system like transmission ,engine or hybrid system. The gateway ecu brings everything together and reads the smart key to authorize the driver to start the car.
I made a nice on/off precharge circuit with Fechter's help. One cool feature was the on/ off sequence. Flip a switch to "on " then press and hold a button to enable now the ready light comes on and you can drive. Precharge starts when you flip the switch to on. The contactor/ relay closes when you press the momentary button. Once you flip it to off it will not accidentally turn on by flipping a little handlebar mounted switch since you still need to press the button to enable. The light reminds you that it is on.

Great analogy. Sort of like a pushbutton starter, like the new cars where the proximity is the "enabler" and the pushbutton is the starter.

I thought about the proximity approach as well but it is a bit expensive and complicated. Maybe get to that later!

 

[mr.electric]

As long as the battery in and out and throttle in and out plugs are matched with the stock plugs you could easily bypass the circuit if anything went wrong. The hill climb race provided a telling lesson when Ryan had a BMS failure and spent significant time bypassing the permanently installed BMS circuit. I think the key switch circuit could add safetey and reliability by providing things like temp sensor throttle cut back, precharge circuit , current limiting ,dc-dc for lights and other features and if all else fails an easy way to bypass everything and plug the throttle and battery directly into the controller would be good.

 

[Alan B]

Exactly right. Compatible in/out plugs, and maybe a precharge resistor plug (or maybe don't bother with that) for the case where things go wrong.

I have adjusted the PCB so position two is accessory and controller motor power, but not controller logic power; and position three enables power to the controller logic.

It is not perfect. To do the more desirable position two accessory and controller logic, and position three motor power would require a DC-DC converter to drive the FET gates. That is do-able but raises cost and complexity and may push the board space. Maybe I should look around for a DC converter to drive the gates just to see how small they get.

 

[mr.electric]

I have a pile of three pin throttle male and female plugs with about two inches of wire connected to each pin.

 

[Alan B]

I have a pile of three pin throttle male and female plugs with about two inches of wire connected to each pin.

Could come in handy for these boards.

I added a photo of my new gloves to the last posting on page 28. They seem to be working out well, though only one ride on them so far.

 

[chroot]

Hi AlanB,

Remember, I told you at the SF slacker peak as I recommend you make a mold case for inside the bike's frame, put your LiPo battery inside the case, better protection, It will make look awesome and Please take it look the link below to give you a idea.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25407&start=30

 

[Alan B]

Hi AlanB,

Remember, I told you at the SF slacker peak as I recommend you make a mold case for inside the bike's frame, put your LiPo battery inside the case, better protection, It will make look awesome and Please take it look the link below to give you a idea.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25407&start=30

Yes, I do remember. Thanks for the link! I need to do something for protecting my batteries! First I need to see if I'm going to put a few more into the pack, then time to add protection!!

The linke above points to page 3 of a thread where he makes flat sheets of epoxy/carbon fiber/glass fiber. Very nicely done! Two tips are to make the flat sheets between two sheets of heavy glass with weights, and use electric blankets to cook it for 12 hours. The other useful tip is to cut it use an angle grinder and thin cutting disc.

 

[chroot]

Actually, I used the plastic bag with the vacuum with the molded with the fiberglass cover over the molded for few hours. It takes about 8 hours to be completely hardened epoxy then I remove the molded fiberglass case.

Let me find a thread that showing the molded fiberglass case. Give me time search it for you.

I saw different technique using heat cover. I never tried that one.

 

[chroot]

Here link of the molded fiberglass case.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24382&p=353117&hilit=+fiberglass+case+#p353117

nuncaestardesillegaspronto/Venta?feat=directlink#

 

[Alan B]

Another great case link. Thanks!

Just got email that the large screen cycle analyst is shipping. That will be nice!

CA arrived!

Off on a trip for a few days, no time to play with it now!!

Need to fix the front grip shifter. It broke on the mountain climb, either when I fell or when I was pushing the front derailleur back into position. It moved a bit somehow.

 

[Alan B]

Time to get back to this project!

Had some nice weather today, and fixed the broken grip shifter, finally. So now I can get out of low range and pedal at reasonable speed when I need to. The old shifter broke on the group ride to slacker's hill a few months back when I took a minor spill in the loose gravel on the steep part of the climb.

Today I also strapped a couple batteries for 10S1P (42V 5AH) and controller to the Son's bike and we went for a ride to the neighborhood "stroll".

Both bikes worked well.

Ordered a couple of the King chargers a few days ago. 75V 2 and 4 amp versions. Plan to alternate bulk and balance charging on my 18S2P (75V 10AH) setup.

 

[Alan B]

First Commute Run Today!

Finally got everything together for the "first" commute run to work.

Weather warm, going to be hot going home. Took it fairly easy, trying to avoid running out of juice or getting sweaty on the way to work.

14.02 miles
47 min
6.4 amp hours (of 10) (18S2P 5AH, so 75V 10AH)
75.0V to start
68.3V at work
452 watt hours
32.4 watt hours per mile (lots of vertical on this inbound work trip through Tilden park on Wildcat)
60 amps max current
66.4 V min (flogged it hard up one hill)
17.8 average mph
34.5 max mph (flew down one hill)

Took it easy overall, pedalled a little but not very much or very hard, generally ran 15-20 mph. Ran hard up one hill and down another due to a vehicle that was following me at a spot that was not good for passing.

Motor fairly warm upon arrival at work. The hard uphill run was not long before the ride ended, probably heat from that percolating out.

Charging now with Turnigy 8150 at 6 amps 25.2V. Have to charge three sections this way. Bulk charger has not arrived yet, but this balancing turnigy has been doing nicely. Should take less than 1.5 hours per section to charge.

I will probably increase the battery bank to 15AH by adding 3 more 6S 5AH packs. That should give me a comfortable margin and allow more speed, and a round trip without recharging if necessary.

 

[Racer_X]

where did you order the chargers?

Ordered a couple of the King chargers a few days ago. 75V 2 and 4 amp versions.

 

[Alan B]

From bmsbattery. It is my understanding they are the King chargers, but who knows. This is somewhat of an experiment.

 

[Alan B]

Work to home trip. A little faster in parts, taking my time in others. Very nice evening, warm and pretty. Took a few photos along the lake to post later.

43 minutes
14.3 miles (slight detours)
24.5 watt hours per mile
4.9 amp hours (of 10)
19.9 mph average speed
442 mph maximum speed (funny, don't recall going over 35)

 

[Alan B]

A couple of cellphone snaps, not the best camera, but what we had along.

Charging at Work

View of San Pablo Reservoir riding home from work

It was really a nice day to ride to work, and a spare-the-air day. I saved almost 40 pounds of CO2 today. The air temperature alternated between cool and warm this morning as I rode through cells of warm air. This afternoon the cool breeze from the bay reached through Berkeley and across the park ridges for the first part of my ride, but as I descended into the San Pablo Reservoir valley on the far side the temperature rose significantly. It was really nice to avoid working too hard in the heat and let the electric work as we rolled along the lake.

Some comments on the power supply I was using at work. I had the old Astron RS20A lying around, so I took that to work for this charging station. It is rated for 16 amps continuous, 20 amps intermittent, but at about 12 amps where the charger does the bulk charging this power supply gets very toasty. I'll put it back away and dig out another switcher. The linear supply just gets too hot.

Charging took about 1.5 hours per section times three, so about 5 hours to recharge and balance all three 25 volt sections. Using the Turnigy 8150 charger at 5 amps this time to reduce power supply heat slightly.

 

[Alan B]

I've replaced the old Astron linear power supply with an Astron SS30M switcher that I have had for awhile:

Astron SS30M 12V supply feeding Turnigy Accucel 8150 charger

This setup runs cool, I've been using one like it at home for some time. It will do 7 amps at 6S. Cellphone quality photo.

 

[Alan B]

Came to work via a different route.

13.6 miles
7.55 amp hours
524 watt hours
38.5 watt hours per mile
49 minutes

Slightly shorter, lots of hills, more traffic, not as efficient due to up and down and some poor route choices and rough pavement.

The park route (my regular route) is being oiled and gravelled again, so it is a poor route for bikes.

 

[Alan B]

So I decided to take a different route home today. On dirt roads. Mostly downhill, slow, very pretty terrain along a creek through forest and meadow. Hard to believe it is only a ridge or two away from Interstate 80 and bumper to bumper traffic!

75 min
16.1 mi
5.5 ah
370 watt hours
23 wh/mi
12.9 mph average

 

[Alan B]

...

Ordered a couple of the King chargers a few days ago. 75V 2 and 4 amp versions. Plan to alternate bulk and balance charging on my 18S2P (75V 10AH) setup.

Chargers arrived. The 2 amp has no switch, the 4 amp has a power switch. Both measure just under 75V as I requested (4.15V*18). The 4 amp unit is slightly taller and a bit heavier as expected. The shorter 2 amp unit doesn't have enough height for the power cord/switch socket hence no switch. It does have the power cord socket.

Took a day less than 2 weeks from order to arrival.

My batteries are already charged so can't try it out yet.

 

[Alan B]

Here are the bulk chargers:

The upper unit is 74.7V 2A, and the lower unit is 74.7V 4A

The voltage chosen was 4.15 V per cell times 18 cells.

They are the same physical size except for height.

 

[Alan B]

Good Visibility is important, so I'm getting a jacket for riding:

http://www.safetydepot.com

 

[Alan B]

Have been reading about the Magic Pie hubmotor. Looks like a nice choice for my type of hilly commuting. Probably better at climbing and shedding heat than the 9C (though the 9C is very good). Just get the model for an external controller. A dual Magic Pie (one in each wheel) would really be amazing. A number of folks are doing that.

http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?board=15.0