You're probably not using the wrong spoke size for them.
Broken Spokes (On Going Problem)
- Thread starter markz
- Start date
miro13car
100 kW
I had bicycle shop to build all my wheels.
if you had CAN$200 Chris King front hub to lace to rim ,
you dont want to experiment and learn on something like lacing bicycle wheel.
if you had CAN$200 Chris King front hub to lace to rim ,
you dont want to experiment and learn on something like lacing bicycle wheel.
markz
100 TW
I have used good rims and good spokes in the past, following all the correct procedures, stress relief and oil, making the rim perfect and still over time breaking. Doing something wrong in the process for sure! Perhaps its not checking the spokes every couple days and letting it slide by riding on with a spoke or two broken and not fixing it as soon as I catch it. Which is probably the case, my laziness costs.
Then I get dismayed at spending and going cheap, and those breaking faster, then going back to Sapims and good rims, triple checking everything, doing it by the book (so I thought).
The Polyax nipples look like a good option.
In the meantime, waiting on spokes and nipples for motorcycle rim. The angled nipple holes on the rim will be good.
Front rims, front hubs I have never had a problem with.
Then I get dismayed at spending and going cheap, and those breaking faster, then going back to Sapims and good rims, triple checking everything, doing it by the book (so I thought).
The Polyax nipples look like a good option.
In the meantime, waiting on spokes and nipples for motorcycle rim. The angled nipple holes on the rim will be good.
Front rims, front hubs I have never had a problem with.
markz
100 TW
I am doing up the motorcycle rim now.
Do any of you ever drill the hub motor flange a tiny wee bit with a drill bit in order to get the spoke head to fit right on the flange hole?
What about bending the spoke at the J bend a tiny wee bit right after you put the spoke through the flange hole so it aims to the rim hole better?
Do any of you ever drill the hub motor flange a tiny wee bit with a drill bit in order to get the spoke head to fit right on the flange hole?
What about bending the spoke at the J bend a tiny wee bit right after you put the spoke through the flange hole so it aims to the rim hole better?
If your spokes are too large to fit the hole, you might have to file the hole to the correct shape to fit the entire head correctly. Or use spoke washers, available from wherever you got the spokes, for the specific spoke heads you have.markz said:
I don't understand the question. To aim to the rim you point the spoke at the rim by swivelling the spoke. I don't see how you could have a problem getting the spoke aimed at the nipple hole in the rim, at the flange hole.
If you have a bend in the length of the spoke, it means the spoke won't be tensioned correctly no matter what you do, and will flex instead of stretching, and will break at the flexure point (usually the elbow, or J-bend). Somewhere in CrazyBike2's thread several years back is a wheel with this issue.
It is common to have such a problem at the nipple hole, where the nipple won't seat at the correct angle to point at the hub flange, and you end up with bends in the spoke at the exit of the nipple, which is where they break.
That's why motorcycle rims often have angled / dimpled nipple holes, so they point at the spots on the hub flange where the spokes will come from. (and may have different versions available for different size hubs)
DogDipstick
100 kW
MadRhino said:When I lace a hub in a MC rim, I use Sapim 12 ga SS spokes, and Sapim Polyax nipples matching rim drilling size.
So you are fine with 12g for the heft of a V3 205? I have 12g on my V1, and am building another at the moment. Actually have two ( hefty) hubs to lace into ( m/c) rims. I have sourced the larger custome cut spokes ( 8g, 10g,) through Chineese sellers.. but I would tather go with the local supplier who has been cutting them for me.. but he only goes to 12g. Peopperly laced, on an 18", you would say 12g is a good gauge for an ebike build? Ty, M. Rhino
markz said:
these are old-master style questions... Lapping, fitting, and accurately implementing a design... is the scourge of every perfectionist. Yes, I think some gains may be had but they are just about trivial and marginal if not done correctly. The spokes need to be relieved systematically before use anywhay, I generally do not mind doing a rim twice if it means I can get over some of the troubles, tight spots, hard threads, machining tool marks, ect... Yes thread it in twice, and you are 2x motre sure that you have not cross threaded... dont force, and yes, I am sure every builder goes over such things. But.. this is up to you... the (wheel) master.
Truing a wheel is using all its parts, in concert. To the best goal ( True).
Except that one swordmaker. His never broke and came out the forge perfect and sharp every time. A master of perfection.
"A legend tells of a test where Muramasa challenged his master, Masamune, to see who could make a finer sword. They both worked tirelessly and eventually, when both swords were finished, they decided to test the results. The contest was for each to suspend the blades in a small creek with the cutting edge facing against the current. Muramasa's sword, the Juuchi Yosamu (十千夜寒, "10,000 Cold Nights") cut everything that passed its way; fish, leaves floating down the river, the very air which blew on it. Highly impressed with his pupil's work, Masamune lowered his sword, the Yawarakai-Te (柔らかい手, "Tender Hands"), into the current and waited patiently. Only leaves were cut. However, the fish swam right up to it, and the air hissed as it gently blew by the blade. After a while, Muramasa began to scoff at his master for his apparent lack of skill in the making of his sword. Smiling to himself, Masamune pulled up his sword, dried it, and sheathed it. All the while, Muramasa was heckling him for his sword's inability to cut anything. A monk, who had been watching the whole ordeal, walked over and bowed low to the two sword masters. He then began to explain what he had seen.
The first of the swords was by all accounts a fine sword, however it is a blood thirsty, evil blade, as it does not discriminate as to who or what it will cut. It may just as well be cutting down butterflies as severing heads. The second was by far the finer of the two, as it does not needlessly cut that which is innocent and undeserving."
MadRhino
100 GW
DogDipstick said:MadRhino said:When I lace a hub in a MC rim, I use Sapim 12 ga SS spokes, and Sapim Polyax nipples matching rim drilling size.
So you are fine with 12g for the heft of a V3 205? I have 12g on my V1, and am building another at the moment. Actually have two ( hefty) hubs to lace into ( m/c) rims. I have sourced the larger custome cut spokes ( 8g, 10g,) through Chineese sellers.. but I would tather go with the local supplier who has been cutting them for me.. but he only goes to 12g. Peopperly laced, on an 18", you would say 12g is a good gauge for an ebike build? Ty, M. Rhino
Yep. I build a 205h50 single cross in motorcycle rim using 12ga Sapim SS spokes and Polyax nipples. It does make a very long lasting wheel.
I build in bicycle rim using DT Swiss 14 ga spokes and 16+ mm (18mm ideally) long nipples. I drill the rim spoke holes at proper angle and use nipple washers one size larger than nipples size. This too, is making a durable wheel, though require more frequent maintenance. The cost of lightness.
Hummina Shadeeba
10 MW
MadRhino said:
Is there anywhere in USA I can send new spokes to get cut shorter and rethreaded for a hub motor?
Hummina Shadeeba said:
If they're 14ga (2.0mm) at the threaded end, some bike shops have a machine to do that. Getting them cut and threaded shorter than 125mm usually means you need a specialist, though. (Like Grin Technologies.)
ZeroEm
1 MW
Looks like my wheel setup, just need to add the 2mm washers and leafmotor. I'm 260 lbs, trike is 70-80 lbs. My first lace job have 2500 miles on it. did one retention around 3-500 miles, don't remember still going max power is 2600w. Going to swap motors but going with another new Alex rim and Butted spokes, black.
MadRhino
100 GW
The same spoke roller head can be fitted to do 14 and 12 ga. You don’t really need the machine if you mind the money. I have used a variable drill successfully before.
MadRhino said:The same spoke roller head can be fitted to do 14 and 12 ga. You don’t really need the machine if you mind the money. I have used a variable drill successfully before.
I've used a Hozan spoke threader to do entire wheels worth of spokes, many times. But usually I've done this for my own use. Most shops will only use a manual threader to replace broken spokes, not populate an entire wheel. The usual machine for that job is the Phil Wood spoke machine, which cuts the spoke to length and threads it with a single motion. One advantage to that is the spoke threads are much more consistent in number of turns.
This, about $200
versus this, $6300
MadRhino
100 GW
Of course, we are talking DIY. Many would not hesitate to learn building their own wheels if they knew that expansive equipment is not a must. This is a recurrent problem for ebikers, to have a hard time finding someone to do it locally.
ZeroEm
1 MW
Might pay for itself in several wheels as high as shipping is.
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