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Build your own CD battery tab welder for about $100.00+-

Just so you know....I priced a newish Chinese dual pulsed capacitive (battery tab) welder, an 875ws unit and was quoted $4,700.00 before shipping which would be an additional $380.00 to me in US. This would lead me to believe a 250ws dual pulsed would be around 1k, maybe less or more.

Now that's getting very reasonable, especially if the machines #1, work as specified and #2, come to you as specified. Big if's so I've asked for references. http://www.espot-welder.com/ is their website.

They're going to two trade shows in the US in the next 9 months so that should say something about what they have in mind for their future.
 
So maybe HLabs isn't all that anymore for car audio. Here is the response from yesterday;

Hello Dion,
Thank you for your inquiry. Due to slow sales in the capacitor business we are discontinuing this product.Therefore we only have the 1/2 Farad caps in stock. The ESR for the 1/2 Farad caps is .005 ohms.
Best regards,
Stan
ALL@hlabs.com

I sent an enquiry about a clearance price for 4 of these and also asked how many are left avail. I'll update for those maybe interested.

I'll get in touch with my old IASCA competing friend about alternatives for you guys. He has an Alpine and Kaption sponsorship but I don't think he could get away with ordering too much of the same thing at 10% under dealer cost... He uses a Kaption 6F cap :O He talks over my head like you guys so keep the faith :)
 
Chillboy said:
So maybe HLabs isn't all that anymore for car audio. Here is the response from yesterday;

Hello Dion,
Thank you for your inquiry. Due to slow sales in the capacitor business we are discontinuing this product.Therefore we only have the 1/2 Farad caps in stock. The ESR for the 1/2 Farad caps is .005 ohms.
Best regards,
Stan
ALL@hlabs.com

I sent an enquiry about a clearance price for 4 of these and also asked how many are left avail. I'll update for those maybe interested.

I'll get in touch with my old IASCA competing friend about alternatives for you guys. He has an Alpine and Kaption sponsorship but I don't think he could get away with ordering too much of the same thing at 10% under dealer cost... He uses a Kaption 6F cap :O He talks over my head like you guys so keep the faith :)

Thanks Chillboy, your efforts are appreciated. This thread is turning into a great information resource about all aspects of these welders. :D
 
The bigger the cap, the worse its going to function in this application. This is due to inductance on the foil of the caps getting things further and further away from the terminals.

Banks of small caps = win.

If the 6F cap uses carbon, aka, supercap technology, it would be pretty much useless for this application. 15 years ago when I was into car audio, people came out with some 10F, 20F, 30F caps for car audio. They were less useful than a little electrolytic the size of your thumb.
 
I truly believe that if the no name ones are avoided you guys will find a good capacitor(s) to use.
You should also find that a good one will have it's esr rating in the manual for it, if it doesn't there's prob something to hide.
Just google the model +"manual" after finding a good 20V (peak) rated cap.

Jumped on ebay and found this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Stinger-SPC5010-10-Farad-2000W-Pro-Hybrid-Capacitor-/350338618448?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item5191cf1450

ESR = .0015ohm @ 120Hz / 25C http://www.stingerelectronics.com/images/pdfs/3SPC505-5010-5050%20instructions.pdf
 
liveforphysics said:
The bigger the cap, the worse its going to function in this application. This is due to inductance on the foil of the caps getting things further and further away from the terminals.

Banks of small caps = win.

If the 6F cap uses carbon, aka, supercap technology, it would be pretty much useless for this application. 15 years ago when I was into car audio, people came out with some 10F, 20F, 30F caps for car audio. They were less useful than a little electrolytic the size of your thumb.

Yep. Nothing quite like a division of labour is there!!!! Thats what Jeremy has, a bank of 67000uF, all hooked up together.

That said I think Chillboy is sincere and is trying to keep in spirit with the $100.00 aspect of the thread. I think it is commendable, but I am starting to regard the capacitor aspect as the weak link- its where the most will go wrong the fastest.
 
Chillboy said:
I truly believe that if the no name ones are avoided you guys will find a good capacitor(s) to use.
You should also find that a good one will have it's esr rating in the manual for it, if it doesn't there's prob something to hide.
Just google the model +"manual" after finding a good 20V (peak) rated cap.

Jumped on ebay and found this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Stinger-SPC5010-10-Farad-2000W-Pro-Hybrid-Capacitor-/350338618448?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item5191cf1450

ESR = .0015ohm @ 120Hz / 25C http://www.stingerelectronics.com/images/pdfs/3SPC505-5010-5050%20instructions.pdf

Thanks for your efforts Chillboy. I wonder if Live For Physics does not have a point though. Maybe I am better off with six 0.5F in parallel, instead of a single 3F.
 
It was my understanding that was to bring the esr down, but yeah I'd rather have a little one explode if anything.
So I fig a 6F cap with good esr rating wouldn't stress.
None the less HLabs claims they have regular customers on the .5F but still have 70 units.
They will sell 4+ @ $30 ea plus shipping.
contact info ALL@hlabs.com
 
That stinger hybrid 10F cap would be useless, and really slow the charge rate.

It's something like a 1/2F electrolytic (the only useful part), then 9.5F of carbon caps (aka, supercaps), which makes for a package with loads of energy storage, and useless inductance and true ESR. It's a perfect example of the useless stuff sold in car audio, like the 50F carbon caps etc etc.

If you want to do it right, something like 8 of these would give you a fantastic final product:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Phillips-20v-290000uf-Computer-Grade-Bus-Capacitor-/190348790512?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c51ac0af0#ht_1011wt_939


However, you don't want to do it right, you want to do it cheap, and that's fine, nothing wrong with that.

Watch auctions that go cheap for BS caps like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Raptor-C1F-1-0-Farad-Car-Audio-Capacitor-20V-DC-/300418989355?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f25dfd2b#ht_1688wt_1165

I would try to keep it under 1-1.5F per cap if possible, the smaller the better for these POS car audio gimick caps. Find some auctions you can win for $20/cap, buy 4 of them or so, stick them all in P with the cap you've all ready got, and call it a day. That's the cheap ass solution that will work fine.
 
liveforphysics said:
That stinger hybrid 10F cap would be useless, and really slow the charge rate.

It's something like a 1/2F electrolytic (the only useful part), then 9.5F of carbon caps (aka, supercaps), which makes for a package with loads of energy storage, and useless inductance and true ESR. It's a perfect example of the useless stuff sold in car audio, like the 50F carbon caps etc etc.

If you want to do it right, something like 8 of these would give you a fantastic final product:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-Phillips-20v-290000uf-Computer-Grade-Bus-Capacitor-/190348790512?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c51ac0af0#ht_1011wt_939


However, you don't want to do it right, you want to do it cheap, and that's fine, nothing wrong with that.

Watch auctions that go cheap for BS caps like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Raptor-C1F-1-0-Farad-Car-Audio-Capacitor-20V-DC-/300418989355?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f25dfd2b#ht_1688wt_1165

I would try to keep it under 1-1.5F per cap if possible, the smaller the better for these POS car audio gimick caps. Find some auctions you can win for $20/cap, buy 4 of them or so, stick them all in P with the cap you've all ready got, and call it a day. That's the cheap ass solution that will work fine.

Yep. That is the way I am starting to swing myself.

LFP, do you reckon a spot-welder set up with those Philips 0.29F caps would have what it takes to weld the aluminium Lifepo4 cells, such as the A123's? I have heard that it may be necessary to go to 30v+ to deal with aluminium, and that punching copper strips onto aluminium might need as high as 40v

Here are the basic results of varying numbers of capacitors and voltage:

With all 12 capacitors at 25 to 30V it is just too hot for normal battery tabbing, but not quite enough for for doing copper or aluminum to copper aluminum or steel.
All twelve caps at 18V will tack Nickel tabbing strip to aluminum, but it isn't strong enough to hold up under use.

With nine of the capacitors (324,000uF) at anywhere between 12 to 20 V works pretty well for tabbing Nickel to steel can batteries; not much good for anything else though. Same with seven caps at 13-15V.

Using six capacitors (216,000uF) at 14-16 V battery tabbing is just about right. With six caps at 30-32V, it is a little too hot for battery tabbing, but will tack a variety of other materials. But often the plain copper electrode will leave a big hunk of its tip behind.... Seems like above 25 volts, even with just 200,000uF of 'real' capacitors, the plain copper electrodes aren't very good, and it is time to step up to using chrome copper or other alloys as used for "professional' spot weld electrodes. I haven't tried any yet, but I'll order some in the not too distant future, and let you know if it works any better.

The 3A maximum current on my 0-30V bench supply is OK for testing purposes, and doing small projects, but if you are going to do any kind of 'production' You will want something with higher current.


The above was taken from http://www.ledhacks.com/power/higher%20V%20welder.htm
 
Ok, a little background: I have been following this thread for quite a while. I am an electrical engineer with over 40 years experience and a zillion bucks of sophisto test equipment. I have designed power systems that handle over 7.5 megawatts. I have built a FET based capacitive discharge welder/cutter that runs rings around commercial models costing over $20,000.


Here is the straight dope on car audio capacitors: over 90 percent are well and truly fraudulent crapassators. Big names are absolutely no guarantee of a proper capacitor. I have purchased caps from over a dozen different brands and tested them for capacity and ESR. Only three met their published specs. A couple others were usable. All the others had between 1/15 and 1/4 their advertised capacity! Some ESRs were 2-6 times what was specified (if specified at all). Buyer beware... Caveat emptor... You're oh, so screwed...

The good:
Rockford Fosgate RFC1 - measures 1.019F, 1.17 milliohm ESR @ 20Hz
Scosche ECAP1 E2 - measures .932F, 1.52 milliohms ESR @ 20Hz
Monster Cable 1F - measures 1.015F, 1.16 milliohms ESR @ 20Hz (note: no part number, thought to be the same as their current model MPC P300 MCAP-1F)
Monster Cable Intellicap - measures 1.15F, 0.75 milliohms ESR @ 20 Hz (!)

I have tested multiple samples of each of these caps and they were all very consistent.

The three caps listed have a voltage rating of 20V... The Rockford cap is specified at 16V/20V surge. Unknown if that is a working value or "surge" value on the other two. I have occasionally run my Rockfords at 20V and did not have problems. Actually, I let one sit at 20V for a week without any problems (my welder has leakage sensors over the vent holes and shuts down and screams bloody murder if it detects any electrolyte leakage). YMMV. Actually YM probably WV.

No telling if any cap actually meets its published voltage specs... it takes a destructive test to find out. I suspect that if a manufacturer meets their capacitance spec, then their voltage spec will be OK. If they are cheating you on capacitance, expect the same on the voltage rating. Try to avoid using capacitors at over 4V less than their surge value and you should be OK. If you have too, you can run them at the full voltage, but you might wind up with electrolyte spewage and a nifty paperweight...

Very few people need a 3F welder if their caps are good. A single decent 1F cap with a good ESR will weld just about any battery tab you want at 16V or less... and probably much less. I have blown holes in 18 gauge steel with that cap. People having problems with their welders are most likely using crapassators.

If you connect two caps in series, you will get double the voltage rating, double the ESR, and half the capacitance. You do need to connect a charge balancing resistor across each cap. Try something like 200-500 ohms. The charge balancing resistors will also act like safety "bleeder" resistors that will slowly drain the capacitors if you shut off the charge supply... a good thing that should be there on any capacitor. A mother bear welder cap (if you really must run at over 16-20V) would be to connect two (or more) pairs of two series connected caps in parallel. I would not recommend series connecting caps that are not identical...

4 milliohms is a terrible ESR for a welder cap. You can easily lose well over 2/3 your welding power in that ESR alone. Avoid so called "hybrid" and carbon capacitors like the plague. They are utterly useless for this application. Avoid single large value capacitors. If you need more capacitance you are MUCH better off paralleling three 1F caps than using a single 3 farad cap... besides, you won't find a real 3 farad cap. The ESR of three 1F caps in parallel will be less than 1/3 the ESR value of a 3F cap.

No matter what you do, strip off those stupid voltmeters and do not use the power terminals/threaded studs, etc shipped with the caps. Bolt directly to the capacitor terminals with real single piece screws. The ESR at the top of those "platinum" and "gold" terminals can be over three times what you get bolting directly to the capacitor. Be careful not to strip the threads. Use a good load spreading washer and lock washer. Watch your polarity. Connect a cap up backwards and it is toast.


Welding to that aluminum A123 battery case is another matter altogether... expect problems no matter what you do... particularly with an SCR based welder. It takes much more advanced monkey technology to make that weld.


And on the subject of bogus values, watch out for "car audio" cables. One brand advertised as 100% pure oxygen free copper was actually plated aluminum with a resistance 1.62 times that of copper. Another was some mystery metal with a resistance over three times that of copper. The Scosche brand of "Flux" cable tested particularly well. Also it is ridiculously flexible. You can wrap 4 ga cable in a two inch diameter coil.

Otherwise, you might want to buy real welder cable... but no telling if there is also hanky-panky going on there. I suspect that you will have less chance of buying bogus welder cable than car audio cable... particularly if it is made in the US. All the bogus cables came out of China. All my welder cable was made in the US and tested just fine.
 
texaspyro said:
...All the bogus cables came out of China. All my welder cable was made in the US and tested just fine.

I've never heard of the company making the capacitor liveforphysics posted. Distributed out of Florida but made in ?

Nice to see a real measurement on the RF caps. That's a company that used to make some great gear but went big box distribution.

http://www.coilgun.info/theorycapacitors/capacitors2.htm
 
texaspyro said:
Ok, a little background: I have been following this thread for quite a while. I am an electrical engineer with over 40 years experience and a zillion bucks of sophisto test equipment. I have designed power systems that handle over 7.5 megawatts. I have built a FET based capacitive discharge welder/cutter that runs rings around commercial models costing over $20,000.


Here is the straight dope on car audio capacitors: over 90 percent are well and truly fraudulent crapassators. Big names are absolutely no guarantee of a proper capacitor. I have purchased caps from over a dozen different brands and tested them for capacity and ESR. Only three met their published specs. A couple others were usable. All the others had between 1/15 and 1/4 their advertised capacity! Some ESRs were 2-6 times what was specified (if specified at all). Buyer beware... Caveat emptor... You're oh, so screwed...

The good:
Rockford Fosgate RFC1 - measures 1.019F, 1.17 milliohm ESR @ 20Hz
Scosche ECAP1 E2 - measures .932F, 1.52 milliohms ESR @ 20Hz
Monster Cable 1F - measures 1.015F, 1.16 milliohms ESR @ 20Hz (note: no part number, thought to be the same as their current model MPC P300 MCAP-1F)

I have tested multiple samples of each of these caps and they were all very consistent.

The three caps listed have a voltage rating of 20V... The Rockford cap is specified at 16V/20V surge. Unknown if that is a working value or "surge" value on the other two. I have occasionally run my Rockfords at 20V and did not have problems. Actually, I let one sit at 20V for a week without any problems (my welder has leakage sensors over the vent holes and shuts down and screams bloody murder if it detects any electrolyte leakage). YMMV. Actually YM probably WV.

No telling if any cap actually meets its published voltage specs... it takes a destructive test to find out. I suspect that if a manufacturer meets their capacitance spec, then their voltage spec will be OK. If they are cheating you on capacitance, expect the same on the voltage rating. Try to avoid using capacitors at over 4V less than their surge value and you should be OK. If you have too, you can run them at the full voltage, but you might wind up with electrolyte spewage and a nifty paperweight...

Very few people need a 3F welder if their caps are good. A single decent 1F cap with a good ESR will weld just about any battery tab you want at 16V or less... and probably much less. I have blown holes in 18 gauge steel with that cap. People having problems with their welders are most likely using crapassators.

If you connect two caps in series, you will get double the voltage rating, double the ESR, and half the capacitance. You do need to connect a charge balancing resistor across each cap. Try something like 200-500 ohms. The charge balancing resistors will also act like safety "bleeder" resistors that will slowly drain the capacitors if you shut off the charge supply... a good thing that should be there on any capacitor. A mother bear welder cap (if you really must run at over 16-20V) would be to connect two (or more) pairs of two series connected caps in parallel. I would not recommend series connecting caps that are not identical...

4 milliohms is a terrible ESR for a welder cap. You can easily lose well over 2/3 your welding power in that ESR alone. Avoid so called "hybrid" and carbon capacitors like the plague. They are utterly useless for this application. Avoid single large value capacitors. If you need more capacitance you are MUCH better off paralleling three 1F caps than using a single 3 farad cap... besides, you won't find a real 3 farad cap. The ESR of three 1F caps in parallel will be less than 1/3 the ESR value of a 3F cap.

No matter what you do, strip off those stupid voltmeters and do not use the power terminals/threaded studs, etc shipped with the caps. Bolt directly to the capacitor terminals with real single piece screws. The ESR at the top of those "platinum" and "gold" terminals can be over three times what you get bolting directly to the capacitor. Be careful not to strip the threads. Use a good load spreading washer and lock washer. Watch your polarity. Connect a cap up backwards and it is toast.


Welding to that aluminum A123 battery case is another matter altogether... expect problems no matter what you do... particularly with an SCR based welder. It takes much more advanced monkey technology to make that weld.


And on the subject of bogus values, watch out for "car audio" cables. One brand advertised as 100% pure oxygen free copper was actually plated aluminum with a resistance 1.62 times that of copper. Another was some mystery metal with a resistance over three times that of copper. The Scosche brand of "Flux" cable tested particularly well. Also it is ridiculously flexible. You can wrap 4 ga cable in a two inch diameter coil.

Otherwise, you might want to buy real welder cable... but no telling if there is also hanky-panky going on there. I suspect that you will have less chance of buying bogus welder cable than car audio cable... particularly if it is made in the US. All the bogus cables came out of China. All my welder cable was made in the US and tested just fine.

THats one hell of a first post! In fact it may be the best "first post" in the history of ES. Trust a Texan to cut to the chase.

Now...can you tell us how to weld those A123 suckers?

Cheers!
 
The Mighty Volt said:
texaspyro said:
Ok, a little background: I have been following this thread for quite a while. I am an electrical engineer with over 40 years experience and a zillion bucks of sophisto test equipment. I have designed power systems that handle over 7.5 megawatts. I have built a FET based capacitive discharge welder/cutter that runs rings around commercial models costing over $20,000.

<snip>

THats one hell of a first post! In fact it may be the best "first post" in the history of ES. Trust a Texan to cut to the chase.

Now...can you tell us how to weld those A123 suckers?

Cheers!

care to share any details? Schematics? video? Pictures at least?

rick
 
rkosiorek said:
The Mighty Volt said:
texaspyro said:
Ok, a little background: I have been following this thread for quite a while. I am an electrical engineer with over 40 years experience and a zillion bucks of sophisto test equipment. I have designed power systems that handle over 7.5 megawatts. I have built a FET based capacitive discharge welder/cutter that runs rings around commercial models costing over $20,000.

<snip>

THats one hell of a first post! In fact it may be the best "first post" in the history of ES. Trust a Texan to cut to the chase.

Now...can you tell us how to weld those A123 suckers?

Cheers!

care to share any details? Schematics? video? Pictures at least?

rick


http://frikkieg.blogspot.com/

Its all there.
 
i thought that was you fritz. how are you doing?

rick
 
rkosiorek said:
i thought that was you fritz. how are you doing?

rick

Rick, I provided that link. I dont know if it is specific to TexasPyro, but it covers everything he mentioned. I threw it out there so everyone could see an example of the Fet-based welders. Sorry if this has caused any undue confusion. :oops:
 
I needed a battery tab welder, checked what was available, laughed hysterically when I found out what commercial units sell for, reviewed the idea of using an SCR, built one, then scrapped it as being too uncontrolled and limiting.

So then I went and did what any addle brained engineer would do and designed my own FET based welder. Then I came across Fritz's device and it was spooky how close our designs were (down to the same number of the same high power FETs) and the choice of max energy and capacitance... addled... errr... great minds think alike... I also came across the Ultrakeet cutter video and added that feature to the firmware.

The main difference in our designs is the choice of CPU and user interface. Fritz chose to keep it nice and simple with a small micro and a couple of twistyknobs. His welder electronics are on two circuit boards which allows for versatile packaging.

My welder uses an Atmel 2561 based 160x80 graphics LCD touchscreen microcontroller board. It has room for 256K of code memory, 4K of EEPROM, and 8K of RAM. All the welder electronics (including connections for three capacitors) are on one circuit board which allows for simple construction with a minimum of power-sapping connections in the high power section.

Currently the welder specific code is over 5000 lines of C (backed up by around 25000 lines of microcontroller library code) and uses around 1/3 of the CPU resources. It can be controlled from the touchscreen or via an RS-232 port. Of those 5000 lines of code, only around 100 lines are actually devoted to the crux of the biscuit... pulse generation. The rest is all user interface, fault monitoring, blinkinlights, spitzensparkins, pretty picture drawin', gratuitous creeping featureitis, etc.

The pulse control is fine enough that it can weld 80 micron gold plated tungsten wire (smaller than a non-red human hair) to inconel wire rods or carelessly blow holes though 18 gauge steel. No razor blade goes unscathed or unbonded in its mighty presence...
 
For welding high conductivity metals together (like copper to aluminum) you need higher resistance welding electrodes (like molybdenum) in order to generate heat. You need the weld pulse to be longish and well controlled... with a capacitive discharge welder, high voltages will generate too short a pulse. Too low of a voltage will not generate enough current. Too low a capacitance and the weld pulse will not be long enough. You also need proper, well controlled electrode pressures and polarity. Positive and negative electrodes may need different pressures.

You will probably not get a true fusion weld, but what is called a "solid state" weld where the materials don't get to their melting point. Also the melting point of copper and aluminum are rather different, which aggravates the problem of getting a good bond. For bonding to aluminum, you will probably need to use some kind of flux and/or shield gas to prevent the formation of aluminum oxide before the weld takes.

This Miyachi paper is a good start: http://www.muc.miyachi.com/res_support/pdf/OptWeldWeb.pdf
also: http://www.muc.miyachi.com/res_resources/pdf/PolarityNugget.pdf

Better yet, go to http://www.muc.miyachi.com/ Under Resources select App Notes..., select Fine Spot Resitance Welding... read everything... twice...

I don't have any A123 cells to mutilate, but have managed to get 5 mil copper to stick to aluminum. Not all that proud of the results, but I have not played with it much... also need to get some molybdenum...
 
I found this timer is perfect for dual puls
http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Timer-Digital-Twin-Timer-CE-Approve_W0QQitemZ260586531511QQihZ016QQcategoryZ78206QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8540779251649605511
 
tonybikes said:
I found this timer is perfect for dual puls
http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Timer-Digital-Twin-Timer-CE-Approve_W0QQitemZ260586531511QQihZ016QQcategoryZ78206QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8540779251649605511

Sorry, but I don't see how. Its minimum time interval is .01 sec (10 milliseconds). A capacitive discharge dual pulse welder needs MUCH finer pulse control. The first pulse is usually in the 100 microsecond to 1 millisecond range. If you have only a barely decent switch device and leads, the cap will be mostly drained within that 10 milliseconds. There is no pulse energy left to control after that.
 
Ok but i want use 2 scr with 2 cap of 2f end like this i can have 2 difrent voltage on each puls so for the timer what is your sogestion i think this timer is bether then the 555.
 
tonybikes said:
Ok but i want use 2 scr with 2 cap of 2f end like this i can have 2 difrent voltage on each puls so for the timer what is your sogestion i think this timer is bether then the 555.

I don't think there is a practical way of doing a working dual pulse welder with SCRs. Sure you can generate two pulses, but they will not be structured in a way that is useful.

The first pulse of a dual pulse is used to burn away surface contaminants and oxides and to seat the electrodes. The second pulse generates the heat that causes the weld. The heat generated in a weld is proportional to the contact resistance. The lower the resistance, the lower the heat.

For a dual pulse welder to work properly, the energy of the first pulse has to be adjusted so that it has just enough energy to not cause the material to stick together. It must be high enough so that enough heat is generated to burn away the surface contaminants but low enough that it does not cause the material to begin to fuse together.

If you get any tacking of the materials together with the first pulse, the second pulse will not be nearly as effective since you have placed the materials in close enough contact that the material contact resistance is lowered enough to dampen the heating of the second pulse.

The way an SCR works is that it drains all the energy out of the capacitor. Once you turn it on, it does not turn off until the voltage through the device drops to a low value (0.5-2V). If you manage to adjust the first capacitor voltage low enough so that the first pulse does not have enough energy to cause the material to stick, it is almost certainly so low that the first pulse will be spread out over a long enough time interval that it will not have enough current to generate enough heat to do its job of blowing away the surface contaminants and oxides.

Yes, there are ways of turning off an SCR before the voltage through it drops to near 0, but they are complicated and finicky. You are MUCH better off going to FET switches.

SCR welders are rude, crude, and socially unacceptable beasts. Sure, they can blast two pieces of metal together, but they do not have enough finesse or control to do it properly. If you want to do an SCR welder, build the basic single pulse unit. Don't waste your time trying to get an effective dual pulse out of it. If you just gotta play with dual pulses, time them with 555's or a micro. The time intervals involved are small enough that that timer unit is pretty much useless.
 
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