Building battery from MAKITA Konion PACK

[999zip999]

After looking at some Amberwolf pics and solder dots I put on the big glasses and saw lot of spacks of solder as balls. Taking a good look and with twesers I fill better but the steps to not to make it worst. The hot iron with to much flux and everything jumps as balls. Should grind my tip on the 80w a concave makes a puddle Of solder in the tip ( oh ). Thanks. I just firgure that out...

 

[Teh Stork]

A bad quality solder can be a bitch to work with. I tried a cheap solder from dealextreme, and this sputtered and sometimes the rosin core wasnt there. Started using Kester solder, never had any problems

 

[Teh Stork]

Progress on the stealth pack

Done fiberglassing

From the topside. It was hard to get out.

Looks like the styrene has dissolved my gaffa tape. Hope it gets it's act together

This is how it will mount on the bike, not bad for a 180 18650 cell pack.

Planning on using some cheap white matte paint on it.

Not quite sure how to mount it to the frame. Rubber mounts seems like the obvius choice, but I'm not sure how.

 

[pwbset]

Not quite sure how to mount it to the frame. Rubber mounts seems like the obvius choice, but I'm not sure how.

Looking cool! Can't wait to see it mounted up/painted etc. Give it as much shock absorption as you possibly can or you'll likely see solder joints popping off the second you hit big potholes or go off road. Ask me how I know. :wink:

 

[Teh Stork]

These strips of silicone are layered inbetween every second layer. The gaffa tape also keeps things tight. I hope it will help.

I'm planning on dressing the inside of the fiberglass pack with some high density foam (or more silicone). Actually I'm concidering using bathroom silicone to make my own rubber mounts xD. Velcro also seems like a possibillity, but given its 10-12 kg weight - I'm not so sure.

 

[pwbset]

Velcro also seems like a possibillity, but given its 10-12 kg weight - I'm not so sure.

I used to use velcro with my duct tape strap packs and it worked pretty darn well actually. A little side to side swinging sometimes, but flexible enough that it withstood most abuse.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9691&start=15#p171343

 

[Doctorbass]

New assembly revision of Makita BL1830 pack will probably make easyer the dissassembly task

I got few of these packs from now but it seem to be the new gen of makita 18V 3Ah pack i think. I will ask my source about that info

The new spotweld seem to be made with laser weld wich wold be great.

One of buyers sent me a picture wich i used to give an exemple on how to dissassemble the cells from the assembly.

Here is my suggestion for these packs:

You will need to make few cut on each sides of the pack cell holder and nickel strip.. but with a table saw this might become easyer if you adjust carefully the height of the blade and use jig to guide the pack along the cut.
This also can be done with a drewmel as well..

This will leave only two legs per tab and these legs should have the same width of the round area where the spotweld are and you will be able to bend and ply these two legd on teh center of teh cell tab so this will make you able to pull the cell from the blach plastic holder. Then you'll only have to solder on these two legs :wink:

Doc

 

[mistercrash]

There's something really wrong about splitting Lithium Ion batteries with a table saw :lol: These spot welds look better than the old packs, and this way of cutting the Nickel you have leaves just the right amount to make clean folds for soldering. I'll see how my Konion battery does during this winter and if all goes well, I might buy a few more. They sure don't like the cold, I insulated and heated my garage so the scooter goes up to its 61 km/h top speed fast going to work but I get 6 to 8 km/h less on top speed and a lot less punch when I come back home after the scooter has been sitting out in the cold for 5 hours.

 

[Lessss]

I can see the sparks coming off the table saw as people short the cells via the blade now.

 

[mvly]

I think Makita made this change because they saw people savaging their cells. In my opinion, these cells are really difficult to get out. The easiest is the earlier version.

 

[Doctorbass]

I think Makita made this change because they saw people savaging their cells.

That's right mvly... :lol: i wonder who is the responsible for that :wink:

But anyway.. that's saving the planet! due to the re-use of the good cells inside that otherwise would go to the recycling or trash

[quote"mvly"]In my opinion, these cells are really difficult to get out. The easiest is the earlier version.[/quote]

But the new version have advantages over the last version: they have 4 spotweld instead of 2 and are better quality spotweld too. The nickel sheet that connect the cells are thinner too but also are wider as previous version.

Doc

 

[jerrysimon]

As I live in the UK and getting hold of these cells has been difficult, I have built a pack (10s4p 2*5s4p in series so I can check their balance) using these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/320951949469?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Unfortunately they seem to be running out of these cells now

I only need a light small pack as they are used on a light assist (average of 6amp draw) on my EBrompton and I wanted them to fit in the back pocket of the front C bag.

Up to now I have been using 12s1p A123 2.3Ah cells but wanted something almost as safe, only a little larger but a little more capacity.

Regards

Jerry

 

[jerrysimon]

Ok 36v * 6Ah i.e. 2*5s4p pack built and seems to be working well in my low current setup. Nice small pack which fits into the back pocket bag of my Brompton C. I have included breakout leads so I can charge/balance each 5s4p pack if I need to with my RC charger. Mostly I plan to bulk charge at 41v, 1.8A though.

I have set LVC on my controller to 31.4v i.e. 3.14v/cell. Should I raise this higher ? I am charging them to about 4.1-4.13v/cell.

Jerry

 

[jerrysimon]

Ah just read this in another thread.

"Firstly, don't take these cells down past 3.3-3.5V if possible and charge up to 4.15- you'll get much better life out of them."

So looks like LVC of my controller needs to be set to around 34v.

Regards

Jerry

 

[999zip999]

It seams to me you can fill the battery going flat. Not to say just judge your battery from your seat but if taken to low they are harder bring back to balance so just don't try and find the limits of ah. Just ride charge and monitor you have sense wires ? and cellog or something like ?

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks. Yes I do have cellogs though don't leave them connected just check after rides sometimes.

So far I have only taken 3.0Ah out the 6.0 Ah battery before charging. I guess I could do some more tests going lower with cellogs attached and set to alarm.

Regards

Jerry

 

[veloman]

Instead of soldering on the tabs, what do you think of drilling small holes and using rivets?

 

[emiyata]

Instead of soldering on the tabs, what do you think of drilling small holes and using rivets?

It will work but after time it will oxidize and will generate high resistance. I can't remember what type of device that came into the repair shop with rivets in it with a lap joint.

 

[mrzed]

Hey all,

I've finally got all 20 of my packs deconstructed and checked initial voltage and have a question about what cells are OK to use. More than 10% of my good cells have a dark stain what I'm guessing is elecrolyte leaked under the skin. These cells voltage measure the same as the rest of the good cells in the pack.

I expect this could in some cases be blown cells fluid getting under the skin of good cells, but I'm torn between caution and wanting to harvest as many good cells as possible.

I also got one pack that looks (and smells) like it got dropped in a bucket of light oil, which also got under the skin - any reason to be concerned about these?

Finally, there are a number of otherwise good looking cells where the skins have been worn off in spots - is there a decent DIY method to cover the cells to prevent shorts in these spots? Something I could paint over the bare bits?

 

[Doctorbass]

Hey all,

I've finally got all 20 of my packs deconstructed and checked initial voltage and have a question about what cells are OK to use. More than 10% of my good cells have a dark stain what I'm guessing is elecrolyte leaked under the skin. These cells voltage measure the same as the rest of the good cells in the pack.

I expect this could in some cases be blown cells fluid getting under the skin of good cells, but I'm torn between caution and wanting to harvest as many good cells as possible.

I also got one pack that looks (and smells) like it got dropped in a bucket of light oil, which also got under the skin - any reason to be concerned about these?

Finally, there are a number of otherwise good looking cells where the skins have been worn off in spots - is there a decent DIY method to cover the cells to prevent shorts in these spots? Something I could paint over the bare bits?

The cells with the black stuff are still ok. I have done many test on them and i did not noticed any difference in performance as the other clean cells. I have made a pack in 2007 that had about half the cells with that black stuff, It had 432 Konion cells and today the bike have about 11000km on it and pack aged normally as it should. just search for my thread with these key words : "doctorbass 432 cells"

Fo rthe cells with the green skin worn off, just fix it with black electrical tape.. I strongly advice you to parallel first and than serie these parallel groups. With cells in parallel, if the external negative can of the cells touch the other that are in parallel with, it does not matter . you only need to protect cells that are in contact with next group of cells in serie. usually i use a sheet of FR4 to isulate these group... take a look to that exemple in the killacycle battery:

On these A123 battery the parallel cells can toutch together but the next group are isolated

here is the original page:http://hightechsystemsllc.com/pt_Batterypacks.html

Just like i did in that 432 cells pack made of multi pack http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27707

Before assembly and the isolation layer being added:

 

[mistercrash]

New assembly revision of Makita BL1830 pack will probably make easyer the dissassembly task

I got few of these packs from now but it seem to be the new gen of makita 18V 3Ah pack i think.

Doc

I got a couple of them in the ten packs I recently bought and I gotta say that if all the Makita packs are now made like this, this will end my adventure with Makita packs. Wayyyyy too much trouble to take them apart now.

 

[Doctorbass]

New assembly revision of Makita BL1830 pack will probably make easyer the dissassembly task

I got few of these packs from now but it seem to be the new gen of makita 18V 3Ah pack i think.

Doc

I got a couple of them in the ten packs I recently bought and I gotta say that if all the Makita packs are now made like this, this will end my adventure with Makita packs. Wayyyyy too much trouble to take them apart now.

Yes i agree and that's why i am no more offering these that are the lastest gen. Now I only offer the pack that are not last gen so these are easier to dissassemble as well.

Doc

 

[Ypedal]

it's all about finding the right destruction method

When i finally gave up on these power tool packs ( too much work ) ... i was cutting the boxes open instead of removing the screws.

 

[Doctorbass]

it's all about finding the right destruction method

When i finally gave up on these power tool packs ( too much work ) ... i was cutting the boxes open instead of removing the screws.

If you have a 2400rpm electric drill and the thief proof T-10 bit it can be very fast too :wink:

Usually i can extract all the good cells of a pack in about 5 minutes.. that's about 480Wh of good cells per hour

Comment from many makita buyers i redceived is that they can finish a 1kWh pack in a wekend.

Doc

 

[mistercrash]

So I was done taking apart the ten makita packs I had and in total I had 4 of the new generation. I found that for me a thin carbide blade in the Dremel made easy work of cutting the new style nickel trips to size without going too deep. So bring on the new generation packs, I ain't afraid anymore.