Doctorbass
100 GW
cassschr1 said:
Yes in some case they recover, BUT YOU MUST CHARGE SLOooLY THEM AT ABOUT C/40 ( 40mA) because their internal resistance is so high at overdischarge state than charging at regular current will damage them.
Building battery from MAKITA Konion PACK
- Thread starter Doctorbass
- Start date
Yes in some case they recover, BUT YOU MUST CHARGE SLOooLY THEM AT ABOUT C/40 ( 40mA) because their internal resistance is so high at overdischarge state than charging at regular current will damage them.
mistercrash
10 kW
This is just my rule here, no one else needs to follow it. When checking cells from used Makita packs, after disassembling and separating them, I let them sit for a couple days. Then I check the voltage of each one, from 3V and up will go for a battery for my scooter. From 2.9V down to 2.5V goes for other projects. From 2.4V and down are sent to the scrap yard for recycling.
Doctorbass
100 GW
mistercrash said:
Excellent Decision!
That's what I 'm recommending too :wink:
Doc
marty
1 MW
Disassemble video I found on YouTube. It's a bit long.
[youtube]3yBnY54o2vw[/youtube]
[youtube]3yBnY54o2vw[/youtube]
mistercrash
10 kW
I suspect that there's none of those old style Makita packs left, now we only get the new ones which are welded differently than in that video, with the cells completely wrapped in a plastic housing. A different technique then in the video is needed to break apart the cells. And you can't really take just one or two bad cells off the pack like some like to do, to separate a couple of bad cells from the pack, all the cells have to be taken apart.
Doctorbass
100 GW
I still get a lot of the 2011 and previous model wich is the same old assembly style. I have also specific demand for the newer pack.
If people ask I can select them from the batch I get. same price, just require more sorting time from me.. :wink:
Doc
If people ask I can select them from the batch I get. same price, just require more sorting time from me.. :wink:
Doc
mistercrash
10 kW
Doctorbass said:
Shows how much I know
Doc! How do you make the difference between the old packs and the new ones just by looking at the outside? I never stopped to see what difference there is.
Doctorbass
100 GW
mistercrash said:Doctorbass said:
Shows how much I know
Doc! How do you make the difference between the old packs and the new ones just by looking at the outside? I never stopped to see what difference there is.
There is a serial number on the pack. On most of the pack the first 2 digit indicate the years.. ex 12540347734 mean 2012
Some of the previous than 2010 pack don't follow this rule absolutely.. sometime the 2 first digit of older pack is not significant..
Doc
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2012
- Messages
- 61
Just finished disassembly of the newer style battpack I got from DocBass ; at first I thought it would be more complicated but actually wasn't. Doc has been generous with his knowledge and makes me want to contribute back.
At first I tought it would be difficult, but it's easy once you develop your tricks ; check p5 of this thread for photo of where to dremmel (works for me). I dremeled with the grinding stone first, didn't want to damage the cells, did also dremmel the plastic casing and try get cells off ; did help to fold back and forth the metal btw cells but was a waste of time (and cuts on my hands). dont be shy to go with the cutting wheel but still be gentle ; the method I used was easier if the plastic case is uncut.
the trick that worked well for me was using a flat screwdriver, using it to fold the tabs back to center and push on them to make them flat one side after another (short side first), try to separate a bit of both halves of the casing (the pin where the spring was is a good place to start), then try to insert the screwdriver btw a cell and the case and turn pushing on the cell's tab and seperating the case (the rubber caps on the positive side can be your freind), repeat as necessary (some tabs may still be larger than the hole) until case seperates ; if the plastic is weakened by grinding, you lose your "lever" effect and the plastic will break instead of seperating the case.
contrairly to the old style battpack, the case can be re-used (for 10p or 16p of cells).
I would have tried with a belt sander ; anybody did that yet?
At first I tought it would be difficult, but it's easy once you develop your tricks ; check p5 of this thread for photo of where to dremmel (works for me). I dremeled with the grinding stone first, didn't want to damage the cells, did also dremmel the plastic casing and try get cells off ; did help to fold back and forth the metal btw cells but was a waste of time (and cuts on my hands). dont be shy to go with the cutting wheel but still be gentle ; the method I used was easier if the plastic case is uncut.
the trick that worked well for me was using a flat screwdriver, using it to fold the tabs back to center and push on them to make them flat one side after another (short side first), try to separate a bit of both halves of the casing (the pin where the spring was is a good place to start), then try to insert the screwdriver btw a cell and the case and turn pushing on the cell's tab and seperating the case (the rubber caps on the positive side can be your freind), repeat as necessary (some tabs may still be larger than the hole) until case seperates ; if the plastic is weakened by grinding, you lose your "lever" effect and the plastic will break instead of seperating the case.
contrairly to the old style battpack, the case can be re-used (for 10p or 16p of cells).
I would have tried with a belt sander ; anybody did that yet?
mistercrash
10 kW
I tried with a belt sander but ended up damaging a couple cells so I did not continue. This time my goal was to spot weld so the tabs had to go. With a tungsten carbide bit on the Dremel, I grinded the four spot welds of each cell and easily yanked the whole nickel strip off. Some light cleaning of the cells with a diamond disk again on the Dremel cleaned up all the cells' tabs.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30112&start=250#p890731
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30112&start=250#p890731
DAND214
10 MW
Yes, the beltsander worked for me. Did that last winter. Built a 10s10p pach for a buddy. Works much better than his 3 SLAs.
Dan
Dan
Doctorbass
100 GW
More recent Makita battery dissassembly instructions !
[youtube]Oz6Uis05ewA[/youtube]
Doc
[youtube]Oz6Uis05ewA[/youtube]
Doc
Matador
100 kW
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2016
- Messages
- 1,045
Syonyk said:
Depends on the exact pack type :
3Ah Makita BL1830 : 10 x Sony US18650 V (LiMn 1600 mAh, 7.5A continue ; 15 Amp burst, 18-30 mOhm DC)
4Ah Makita BL1840 : 10 x Sony US18650 VTC4 (NMC 2100 mAh, 30A ; 22-24 mOhm DC)
5Ah Makita BL1850 : 10 x Samsung INR18650-25R (NMC - 2500 mAh, 20A ; 22-24 mOhm DC)
6Ah Makita BL1860 : 10 x Sony US18650 VTC6 if i recall correctly.... The pack are rather recent...
Doctorbass
100 GW
Matador said:
Great sumarry Matador, let me add some info to that:
Please note that some manufacture give AC and some give DC miliohms. The thumb rule is that AC miliohms is usually smaller than DC miliohm value.
3Ah Makita BL1830 :
10 x Sony US18650 V (LiMn 1600 mAh, 7.5A continue ; 15 Amp burst, 18-30 mOhms DC)
Original Makita spec for the pack:https://www.elektro-online.de/img/shop/anhang/208004/ral2bl1830.pdf
4Ah Makita BL1840 :
10 x Sony US18650 VTC4 (LiMn 2100 mAh, 30A continuous; 100A very short burst ; 12 mOhms AC)
original specs:https://www.powerstream.com/p/us18650vtc4.pdf
5Ah Makita BL1850 : (2 existing rev with different cells)
10 x Sony US18650 VTC5 (LiMn - 2500 mAh, 20A ; 13 mOhms AC)
original specs: https://www.powerstream.com/p/us18650vtc5-vtc5.pdf
10 x Samsung INR18650-25R (NCA - 2500 mAh, 20Acontinuous, 100A very short burst ; 18 mOhms AC, 30mOhms DC)
original specs: https://www.powerstream.com/p/INR18650-25R-datasheet.pdf
6Ah Makita BL1860 :
10 x Sony US18650 VTC6 if i recall correctly.... The pack are rather recent...[/quote]
(pack not availlable in Canada yet)
parabellum
1 MW
Doc,
do you have/sell BL1840 and BL1850 already?
do you have/sell BL1840 and BL1850 already?
Doctorbass
100 GW
parabellum said:
BL1830 and BL1840 only for now.
I have not enough BL1850 and dont have BL1860 yet as they are not availlable for sale now in the canadian market
Pm me
Doc
Pat Eaton
10 W
Great to see you are still supporting us with these cells and the video on how to dismantle the packs. My pack is still working very well after 3 years. I have changed out a few cells, but no major problems.
Looking forward to some of the newer cells.
Thanks again!
Looking forward to some of the newer cells.
Thanks again!
markz
100 TW
My 44 packs came today, What a heavy package, WOW!
Cant wait to use them!
Cant wait to use them!
markz
100 TW
For the LiMn Makita's, I assume I set my rc charger to Lithium Ion right?
Ah Huh!!! I knew it
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/chargers/cg364lim-ez.html
Okie Dokie
Ah Huh!!! I knew it
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/chargers/cg364lim-ez.html
Okie Dokie
Matador said:
litespeed
100 kW
You probably already know this but charge all cells to 4.2 and let them sit for a week. You know which ones are the good ones then. You can also make piles of the cells that are crap for experimentation and the mediocre cells for lo draw items like flashlights and or head light pack.
Have fun.
Tom
Have fun.
Tom
Matador
100 kW
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2016
- Messages
- 1,045
litespeed said:
I have done just that with Makita VTC4 from end 2013 to 2015. Charged to 4.20.... After 2 to 3 weeks, NONE of the 286 good VTC4 I had lost more than 0.01 or 0.02V. Then I discharged them all to 3.65V for storage....
Hopefully, markz gets that same kind of luck with these a little bit older 18650V cells.
Doctorbass
100 GW
Interesting info about the 2500mAh US18650VTC5 that are inside some of the BL1850 makita pack:
https://liionwholesale.com/blogs/re...78175364-sony-vtc5-us18650vtc5-specifications
It seem that for drag racing at 80A these could be great candidate!
Doc
https://liionwholesale.com/blogs/re...78175364-sony-vtc5-us18650vtc5-specifications
It seem that for drag racing at 80A these could be great candidate!
Doc
Attachments
Matador
100 kW
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2016
- Messages
- 1,045
Doctorbass said:
The VTC4 previous generation from BL1840 are awesome too ! Bit less capacity yes, but they have the same (or even a bit higher ?) amperage punch for dragrace purposes !
VT4 datasheet (page 13 for above table) : https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0697/3395/files/Specification_US18650VTC4.pdf?15433905594486690839
Doctorbass
100 GW
Yes matador, These are purely HIGH POWER cells as well as great capacity!
You remember when i whowed you the short circuit of the sinple 1s5p 18650VT cells of 1300mAh at about 800Amp :wink:
If they list these VTC4 at 150A this mean they are probably also used in device witch require great pulse peak power.
imagine.. this mean that if you build a 10p pack, you get 1500A pulse possible :lol: ....
This is also why fuse or circuit breaker are so important!
Doc
You remember when i whowed you the short circuit of the sinple 1s5p 18650VT cells of 1300mAh at about 800Amp :wink:
If they list these VTC4 at 150A this mean they are probably also used in device witch require great pulse peak power.
imagine.. this mean that if you build a 10p pack, you get 1500A pulse possible :lol: ....
This is also why fuse or circuit breaker are so important!
Doc
