Can you recommend an awesome controller for...
- Thread starter ebike11
- Start date
markz
100 TW
ebike11 said:
#1 is the Kelly Controller https://kellyev.com/controllers/
#2 is the PowerVelocity
#3 is Phaserunner https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/controllers.html
Sabvoton
VESC
Sevcons (expensive app, program complex)
ASI (difficult to configure)
Mobipus
Adaptto is expensive and no longer selling from what I gather.
SFOC5 from Incememed here on ES is nice on mine once you've started accelerating past a few MPH.
The issues I've had in beta testing it are mostly from my massive trike; a regular bike likely wouldn't have them.
It's sinewave, FOC, and can monitor the temperature sensor in the motor to rollback power if necessary (same thing with the controller--it will protect itself as needed).
The issues I've had in beta testing it are mostly from my massive trike; a regular bike likely wouldn't have them.
It's sinewave, FOC, and can monitor the temperature sensor in the motor to rollback power if necessary (same thing with the controller--it will protect itself as needed).
Two 450x series, a 4503 like yours and a 4504. IIRC one's a v1 and one's a v2, or maybe a v2 and a v3; I forget which. :/
Keep in mind the only powerful brushless controller I've used is the SFOC5; there's a lot of them out there, but I like it enough that if I could afford to I'd buy two to run the trike motors.
I also have a pair of boards to build Lebowski controllers, but the major parts for each of those will cost about as much as the SFOC5 would, so I haven't finished them yet. I bet they're as good or better than the SFOC5 (and the other controllers others posted in this thread), but I haven't got experience with them yet.
One thing to potentially be careful about with the MXUS motors is their axles don't seem to be all that great--I broke mine; fixed by welding back on for one, replaced the whole end on the other (still fixing it). But I'm running a very heavy cargo trike that sees different loading than a regular bike.
Keep in mind the only powerful brushless controller I've used is the SFOC5; there's a lot of them out there, but I like it enough that if I could afford to I'd buy two to run the trike motors.
I also have a pair of boards to build Lebowski controllers, but the major parts for each of those will cost about as much as the SFOC5 would, so I haven't finished them yet. I bet they're as good or better than the SFOC5 (and the other controllers others posted in this thread), but I haven't got experience with them yet.
One thing to potentially be careful about with the MXUS motors is their axles don't seem to be all that great--I broke mine; fixed by welding back on for one, replaced the whole end on the other (still fixing it). But I'm running a very heavy cargo trike that sees different loading than a regular bike.
depends on wheel size, terrain, wind, etc.
It's not just about power.
It's not just about power.
If you go to http://ebikes.ca/simulator you can pick the 4503 from the list, and an equivalent battery and controller to yours, and wheelsize / etc you can see what it's max speed ought to be.
I just did a basic 100v20ah battery and picked the 40A controller out of the list, to get this
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?bopen=false&motor=MX4503&batt=cust_100_0.2_20&cont=C40&hp=0&axis=mph
It's peak speed comes out as just under 45mph, full throttle, which would overheat in 20 minutes of riding like that continously (but your battery might not have that kind of range anyway).
I did a bit of playing with wheel size, up to 29", expecting faster speeds, but it actually went a bit slower!
So it turns out that in your case, the system probably *is* power limited, in that the speed you're going takes more power to overcome wind resistance than the system can generate.
If I pick a tucked position on a MTB, it gains a few MPH with a 26" wheel size, to over 50MPH, but it's still a bit slower in a 29".
A full recumbent bike gets a significant improvement, up to 60MPH with the 26" wheel and all else the same.
Going back to the regular MTB option and such, but changing the controller to a custom 100A battery / 300A phase gets about 55MPH. However, that could be pretty hard on a small battery; don't know what you have. It also overheats the motor in about 5 minutes, to over 250C.
So you can play with the simulator to see what you might actually need to do to get what you want.
I expect it's probably not *just* the controller you'll need to change out--aerodynamics improvements would help you tremendously.
However...something to think about: the faster you go, the harder it is to safely stop or control the bike under even the slightest adverse condition, and the more important the brakes and bike frame/structure/etc are. It also gets more and more likely that other vehicles on a road (if that's where you're riding) seeing a bicycle won't be expecting you to go that fast, so they may not react the way you expect to your speed. If you look like a motorcycle, they'll probably expect the faster speeds, but they still may not be safe to ride around....
I just did a basic 100v20ah battery and picked the 40A controller out of the list, to get this
https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?bopen=false&motor=MX4503&batt=cust_100_0.2_20&cont=C40&hp=0&axis=mph
It's peak speed comes out as just under 45mph, full throttle, which would overheat in 20 minutes of riding like that continously (but your battery might not have that kind of range anyway).
I did a bit of playing with wheel size, up to 29", expecting faster speeds, but it actually went a bit slower!
So it turns out that in your case, the system probably *is* power limited, in that the speed you're going takes more power to overcome wind resistance than the system can generate.
If I pick a tucked position on a MTB, it gains a few MPH with a 26" wheel size, to over 50MPH, but it's still a bit slower in a 29".
A full recumbent bike gets a significant improvement, up to 60MPH with the 26" wheel and all else the same.
Going back to the regular MTB option and such, but changing the controller to a custom 100A battery / 300A phase gets about 55MPH. However, that could be pretty hard on a small battery; don't know what you have. It also overheats the motor in about 5 minutes, to over 250C.
So you can play with the simulator to see what you might actually need to do to get what you want.
I expect it's probably not *just* the controller you'll need to change out--aerodynamics improvements would help you tremendously.
However...something to think about: the faster you go, the harder it is to safely stop or control the bike under even the slightest adverse condition, and the more important the brakes and bike frame/structure/etc are. It also gets more and more likely that other vehicles on a road (if that's where you're riding) seeing a bicycle won't be expecting you to go that fast, so they may not react the way you expect to your speed. If you look like a motorcycle, they'll probably expect the faster speeds, but they still may not be safe to ride around....
Peterfr12
10 W
Hi
i am also looking for a new controller for my next build, based on a MXUS 4t 20s14p.
There is a new controller which will soon on the market (in March 2019): the Nucular controller 12F from Vassili based in Russia.
check in the sales area,
features of the controller
Maximum power 10 000W (80V+)
Nominal power 5 000W (80V+)
Voltage range 35-90V
Phase max 200A
Battery max~120A
Supply out: 12V 1A, 5V for sensors, each line 100mA PPTC
Bluetooth 4.0
Limiting temperature +80°C
Phase wires 8AWG XT150
Battery wires 10AWG XT90
Size without wires 86*43*125
Weight 525g
Control modes: Square, sensorless, FOC, charger
Temperature and hardware overcurrent protection
Sleep current less 300uA
the controller is delivered with a LCD:
LCD 3" 240*128 FSTN
RGB Buttons
Supply in 8-15V
USB Charger 5.2V 2A with universal driver
Multilinguage WIP
MicroSD slot for software updates
with following features:
Shows charge, speed, power, currents, cell voltages and etc..
Displays information from all devices on CAN bus, updates their software and configures them.
It has light sensor and integrated accelerometer.
A lot of inputs, configurable functions.
Handy back panel for wires inputs. No need for waterproof connectors outside.
Universal GoPro mount, in kit there is steer tube adapter.
Integrated heater for winter use.
so it is a great controller + cycle analyst on its own for 350 US dollars so not bad at all. I know there was a lot of issues with the Adaptto controller made in Russia. However it seems this controller has already been tested by different member here as bzhwindtalker, csc,etc.
Otherwise I will look at powervelocity.
Best regards,
Pierre
i am also looking for a new controller for my next build, based on a MXUS 4t 20s14p.
There is a new controller which will soon on the market (in March 2019): the Nucular controller 12F from Vassili based in Russia.
check in the sales area,
features of the controller
Maximum power 10 000W (80V+)
Nominal power 5 000W (80V+)
Voltage range 35-90V
Phase max 200A
Battery max~120A
Supply out: 12V 1A, 5V for sensors, each line 100mA PPTC
Bluetooth 4.0
Limiting temperature +80°C
Phase wires 8AWG XT150
Battery wires 10AWG XT90
Size without wires 86*43*125
Weight 525g
Control modes: Square, sensorless, FOC, charger
Temperature and hardware overcurrent protection
Sleep current less 300uA
the controller is delivered with a LCD:
LCD 3" 240*128 FSTN
RGB Buttons
Supply in 8-15V
USB Charger 5.2V 2A with universal driver
Multilinguage WIP
MicroSD slot for software updates
with following features:
Shows charge, speed, power, currents, cell voltages and etc..
Displays information from all devices on CAN bus, updates their software and configures them.
It has light sensor and integrated accelerometer.
A lot of inputs, configurable functions.
Handy back panel for wires inputs. No need for waterproof connectors outside.
Universal GoPro mount, in kit there is steer tube adapter.
Integrated heater for winter use.
so it is a great controller + cycle analyst on its own for 350 US dollars so not bad at all. I know there was a lot of issues with the Adaptto controller made in Russia. However it seems this controller has already been tested by different member here as bzhwindtalker, csc,etc.
Otherwise I will look at powervelocity.
Best regards,
Pierre
cheeko
100 W
Peterfr12 said:
Mate i have Powervelocity and love it the ease of it and its very beefy, app works sweet and if you need to change programming its simple i have 24FET 15KW 100V version running 24S
Overkill but its OK i guess
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
cheeko said:
+1 on PowerVelocity
500WhatsThat
10 mW
- Joined
- May 2, 2019
- Messages
- 21
So, which PowerVelocity would you recommend for 52v batt 1kw direct hub with Regen and wireless smartphone display (less clutter)? Thanks in advance.
500WhatsThat said:
This is their smallest controller
http://powervelocity.com/home/54-12f-ebike-sinewavesilent-controller-android-ios-bluetooth-programmable-4kw.html
With a fully charged 14S pack it will run at about 3Kw. (58.8v x 50A)
Not sure how well your hub will cope with that.
500WhatsThat
10 mW
- Joined
- May 2, 2019
- Messages
- 21
Thanks, now I have better "specs" to go Hub Hunting...
Pricey, those Batts!!
Pricey, those Batts!!
500WhatsThat
10 mW
- Joined
- May 2, 2019
- Messages
- 21
Seems New Tech is coming available!!
Golden Motor offers Magic Pie 5 has the controller built into the hub, and puts the display/control on our smartphone, (one less thing- Forest Gump..or TWO).
The there's the two speed hub motor from gMAC
And compact axial flux electric motors from Magnax!
IM SO temped just wait 3 months!!
Then it might be a Lightened, aerocooled, Statorgade all-in-one 5" hub at 1500W and 2kg with the only wires being 2 beefy ones to the Batt
Golden Motor offers Magic Pie 5 has the controller built into the hub, and puts the display/control on our smartphone, (one less thing- Forest Gump..or TWO).
The there's the two speed hub motor from gMAC
And compact axial flux electric motors from Magnax!
IM SO temped just wait 3 months!!
Then it might be a Lightened, aerocooled, Statorgade all-in-one 5" hub at 1500W and 2kg with the only wires being 2 beefy ones to the Batt
Not new; the MP5 has been around for years. (five? six? can't remember)500WhatsThat said:
Any motor with the controller built in is limited in power, because both the motor and hte controller make heat, and putting all that heat in the same place the controller is, where it is difficult to shed, is going to be hard on the controller. If nothing else it will age the electrolytic capacitors, heatsink paste, etc., significantly faster than normal, requiring service to replace these things more often than normal (and if they aren't replaced before they begin to fail, then their lack of correct operation will begin causing other problems that can lead to complete controller failure).
Cooling mods can be done, like opening up the motor covers with holes and using forced-air cooling, or liquid cooling with closed covers, etc. Statorade would only help the stator get heat out thru the magnets a bit faster, it won't help the controller get rid of any heat.
Most of the motors with controllers built in are limited to around 500w continuous or less (sometimes a lot less), depending on design. Peaks can be higher, even much higher, but the more often those peaks occur, the more heat buildup (and potential for damage) occurs.
The only "GMAC" I know of is this
https://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/gmac.html
which is not a two speed.
Which one are you referring to?
500WhatsThat
10 mW
- Joined
- May 2, 2019
- Messages
- 21
Thanks for the reply and Voice of Reason.
Right, the Magic Pie 5 has been out a while, I'm "catching up"....
I like the "clean" potential of no visible controller and just my phone on the bars, look.
My goal is a commuter/touring that doesn't "look" like a souped up bike or even motorcycle.
I got the supplier wrong on the 2 speed hub motor:https://lunacycle.com/double-gear-double-torque-motor/
So far I have a bike and a partially built spot welder for batteries.
Bike Motobecane elite trial 23" frame (their max)
SPOT (like the dog) is a cannibalized 600W inverter and my Jink Box parts for 600amps with timing on pulse width, off-time, and number-of all programmable. Tonight I learned my 12V SLA wasn't low enough internal resistance, but I have lots of RC plane LiPos to use next. Yeah, I'm an old EE of 220lbs and 6'+ height.
Right, the Magic Pie 5 has been out a while, I'm "catching up"....
I like the "clean" potential of no visible controller and just my phone on the bars, look.
My goal is a commuter/touring that doesn't "look" like a souped up bike or even motorcycle.
I got the supplier wrong on the 2 speed hub motor:https://lunacycle.com/double-gear-double-torque-motor/
So far I have a bike and a partially built spot welder for batteries.
Bike Motobecane elite trial 23" frame (their max)
SPOT (like the dog) is a cannibalized 600W inverter and my Jink Box parts for 600amps with timing on pulse width, off-time, and number-of all programmable. Tonight I learned my 12V SLA wasn't low enough internal resistance, but I have lots of RC plane LiPos to use next. Yeah, I'm an old EE of 220lbs and 6'+ height.
Most likely that motor is the Xiongda 2-speed. If so, it's not new either; there's a number of threads around here about it, if you're interested. I dunno about their "1000w" claim (Luna has made various "claims" over the years that I would take with a grain or few of salt, including some of their "custom-made" stuff--I have a feeling that putting their logo on things is the primary part of "custom" being referred to). If it's the same motor the threads will tell you about that.
If you're after a stealthy assist, then most of the small geared hubs would do that. If you need more than an assist, the bigger geared hubs would do it.
The XIongda will probably do well if you have need for startup torque vs cruising speed, or if you have hills and flat areas. Dunno much about it other than it has two speeds and requires it's special controller (or a system modified to work like it) to reverse it for shifting between it's gears. (retro-direct)
But all these "little" geared hubs wll hide behind a disc brake or a rear gear cluster, etc.
IF you're using just an assist anyway, then you could easily hide a tiny controller, some of them the size of a pack of cigarettes.
If you need more power, the Phaserunner is very small, but you may need a bigger motor to take advantage of it's power, and the motor may then be harder to hide.
Similarly, you can use a very small battery for an assist, which can be hidden ina lot of places. But for more power, and/or range, you may need a harder-to-hide bigger pack.
There are quite a few interesting "stealth" builds around here, though they may be harder to find because "stealth" also refers to a dirtbike/motorcycle-type bike as well. :/
This search eliminates a few types of threads that aren't relevant, but can't eliminate most of them. :/
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=topics&keywords=stealth%2A+-bomb%2A+-fight%2A+-FUTR%2A+-vector+-clone%2A+-knockoff+-enduro&sf=titleonly
If you're after a stealthy assist, then most of the small geared hubs would do that. If you need more than an assist, the bigger geared hubs would do it.
The XIongda will probably do well if you have need for startup torque vs cruising speed, or if you have hills and flat areas. Dunno much about it other than it has two speeds and requires it's special controller (or a system modified to work like it) to reverse it for shifting between it's gears. (retro-direct)
But all these "little" geared hubs wll hide behind a disc brake or a rear gear cluster, etc.
IF you're using just an assist anyway, then you could easily hide a tiny controller, some of them the size of a pack of cigarettes.
If you need more power, the Phaserunner is very small, but you may need a bigger motor to take advantage of it's power, and the motor may then be harder to hide.
Similarly, you can use a very small battery for an assist, which can be hidden ina lot of places. But for more power, and/or range, you may need a harder-to-hide bigger pack.
There are quite a few interesting "stealth" builds around here, though they may be harder to find because "stealth" also refers to a dirtbike/motorcycle-type bike as well. :/
This search eliminates a few types of threads that aren't relevant, but can't eliminate most of them. :/
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=topics&keywords=stealth%2A+-bomb%2A+-fight%2A+-FUTR%2A+-vector+-clone%2A+-knockoff+-enduro&sf=titleonly
500WhatsThat
10 mW
- Joined
- May 2, 2019
- Messages
- 21
sounds like you just saved me (and readers) a few years of researching and a couple pricey mistakes; thanks!
I'll be following those links! cheers!
I'll be following those links! cheers!
500WhatsThat
10 mW
- Joined
- May 2, 2019
- Messages
- 21
Stealth DIY Battery incognito under the rack (14S6P 18650), Phaserunner is SMALL.
GrinTech GMAC8t, CA3, PAS (no throttle needed) Phaserunner, 52V14AH, Regen Braking, Motobecane Elite Trail 29er, size 23"frame, added Diagonal battery mount for a spare(52v28ah total) This config does pavement to 36mph flats and muddy mountain trails no worries too. GrinTech has been AWESOME for support and enthusiasm! If you're not going cheap, Go Grin!!
GrinTech GMAC8t, CA3, PAS (no throttle needed) Phaserunner, 52V14AH, Regen Braking, Motobecane Elite Trail 29er, size 23"frame, added Diagonal battery mount for a spare(52v28ah total) This config does pavement to 36mph flats and muddy mountain trails no worries too. GrinTech has been AWESOME for support and enthusiasm! If you're not going cheap, Go Grin!!
