Circuit breaker sizing

wesnewell

100 GW
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Jan 31, 2011
Messages
7,171
Location
Wylie, TX, USA
Trying to confirm the correct method of of circuit breaker sizing. If I want to allow for 1800W @ 60vdc then I divide 1800 by 60 to get the amperage required @ 60vdc. 30A in this case. So for a 12vdc rated breaker, I'd need one rated at 1800/12 or 150A. Correct?
 
icecube57 said:
You cant adjust/size by wattage
With wattage and volts you can get the amps, so why not? How would you determine the correct amperage breaker?
 
Same reason why u wouldnt put the incorrect fuseb in something with the math you are doing. The voltage rating determines how the fuse/breaker will react when overloaded. The only thing you need to worry about is if you are disconnecting it under a load or not. Also if you are going to use a pre charge or not. The contacts are rated for a certain amount of current. They see voltage but all they care about is the current. Get a 12v rated fuse/breaker and get one at the intended amperage you plan to run it will work fine. I had a 12-32v Maxi Fuse at 40A and used them at 100v. 12v automotive relays have ben used on the forum for delta wye switch at 50-80+v without ill effect. But if any of these items are disconnected under a load there may be some damage because DC has a tendency to hold an arc when contacts open during load. Thats one of the main reason why you shouldnt use AC breakers on DC components.
 
Breakers for DC need to open the contact gap MUCH larger for a given voltage than breakers for AC. This is because AC has a zero voltage crossing point (happening 60 or 50 times a second for standard utility power) which enables an arc to collapse and extinguish on it's own.

As an example, some of the 480VAC breakers at work say "48VDC max" on them, though they handle 480VAC.

What determines when the breaker will trip is the current and only the current. Shunt trip type breakers and trip in a millisecond on a transient (if setup for it).

Cheaper breakers use average thermal circuit loading (representing average current through the circuit). If you're trying to protect a controller from damage, this type of breaker (along with slow-blow fuses) will do nothing for you, as the damage to the controller often happens in a few milliseconds, and this type of breaker takes full seconds to blow (also the transient flyback from opening under load is equally likely to destroy the controller, but unless you setup a TVS there is nothing you can really do about that).


Essentially, it takes a breaker physically larger and more expensive than the controller to be useful on an ebike, and then it's still a major damage hazard to the controller when it opens (from the transient spike).

A fast-blow type fuse inline with the battery, as close to the battery as possible is the best level of protection you can get, and it's relatively affordable and compact, and if sized right, it should never blow or need attention for the life of the vehicle.

To size a fuse, take the peak current load you should ever see in normal operation (which really requires operating the device under normal conditions to know, the current claim ratings on a controller are often +-50% of reality), and divide by 0.8 for steady state loads, and 0.65 for loads with inrush.
 
liveforphysics said:
Breakers for DC need to open the contact gap MUCH larger for a given voltage than breakers for AC. This is because AC has a zero voltage crossing point (happening 60 or 50 times a second for standard utility power) which enables an arc to collapse and extinguish on it's own.

As an example, some of the 480VAC breakers at work say "48VDC max" on them, though they handle 480VAC.

What determines when the breaker will trip is the current and only the current. Shunt trip type breakers and trip in a millisecond on a transient (if setup for it).

Cheaper breakers use average thermal circuit loading (representing average current through the circuit). If you're trying to protect a controller from damage, this type of breaker (along with slow-blow fuses) will do nothing for you, as the damage to the controller often happens in a few milliseconds, and this type of breaker takes full seconds to blow (also the transient flyback from opening under load is equally likely to destroy the controller, but unless you setup a TVS there is nothing you can really do about that).


Essentially, it takes a breaker physically larger and more expensive than the controller to be useful on an ebike, and then it's still a major damage hazard to the controller when it opens (from the transient spike).

A fast-blow type fuse inline with the battery, as close to the battery as possible is the best level of protection you can get, and it's relatively affordable and compact, and if sized right, it should never blow or need attention for the life of the vehicle.

To size a fuse, take the peak current load you should ever see in normal operation (which really requires operating the device under normal conditions to know, the current claim ratings on a controller are often +-50% of reality), and divide by 0.8 for steady state loads, and 0.65 for loads with inrush.


What this guy said... i was trying to dumb it down but not sound like a complete dumbass about and get check by a higher power such as "LUKE" lol.
 
A breaker like this:

http://www.shopmania.com/industrial-gear/p-150-amp-dc-circuit-breaker-with-manual-reset-for-wind-turbine-9683125

At our DC voltages 48-100vdc can destroy itself in a single opening event, because it can't quench the arc (I've done it LOL). It made the breaker more of hazard than the short event, and it took too long to open so it controller was still obliterated anyways as if there was no breaker at all.
 
Guess I'll just skip the breaker then. Thanks.
 
wesnewell said:
Guess I'll just skip the breaker then. Thanks.

You got it.

Fast blow fuse properly sized. Mounted as close to the pack as possible (to minimize the length of unfused cabling). That's the best you can do.
 
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