Crank motor - Cyclone Coaxial

[markz]

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html
What is the terminology, ?mid drive crank? crank motor?

My attention was firstly drawn to 4.8kw but it states 4/4.8kw so different controller, plus this motor has no fins probably for mounting considerations.

Nice, clean, compact, hidden behind the crank gears.
Very interesting, I like it but dont like Enduro frames.

 

[markz]

Clean looks





I am digging it more and more.

 

[markz]

Sign me up!
Make the frame a cruiser frame (feet forward design) with fat tires and rear suspension for Walmart pricing!


They state on their website, for this picture "Below Elite frame picture only for reference"
Frame is called Elite, seems to be about $300-350usd above motor kit cost, being $508 motor kit cost.

 

[markz]

Here some posts on the matter.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=88921&p=1393458&hilit=Cyclone+elite#p1393454
"this Cyclone Elite Frame is a misfit by design/quality control among bike frames but one can ge it wheeling down the road."
Post before that, Hillhater - "Cyclone coaxial is probably unique in that power/price range, but there are other very similat coaxial drives around as you say like Optibike ($$$s), Bofeili, and some others from Tw and China ..but mostly < 1kW"

Like the battery placement - https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=88921&hilit=Cyclone+elite&start=75#p1409432

A video from same thread, Tommmm https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=88921&hilit=Cyclone+elite&start=100#p1413230
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dZKRNYIIS8&feature=youtu.be
Nice fat tires, I dig!

More sexiness
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=88921&hilit=Cyclone+elite&start=100#p1414867

franky82 wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:00 pm
Wow what a reply. Thank you very very much!
And how do you like the bike, have you already done a lot oft miles?
Tommmm
I think it is great for a commuter that can take dirt roads at irresponsible speeds all day. A true adventure bike, but not a dirt bike, like the sur ron. It is cheap to maintain as long as you ask for the 104mm bcd adaptor so you can use $10 30t narrow wide chainrings on the front from ali, since the 22t one that comes on the motor costs $50 and is not great quality(soft material). Also the biggest rear cassette you can find. 42t is the absolute minimum. I will be making another post of the drivetrain when I get it dialed in.
I have done about 300 miles, because I keep tinkering so there is a lot of downtime.

His bike

"I have pushed it on a few trains now, never got an eye bat at me. The bike rack adds to the bike look, they probably think the battery box is a storage box."
What a gold mine of info
" love this bike, it can ride dirt, jump, ride street and do it all."


I would do the same controller location, but need a stealthier battery. Pannier bags.
Great info, tyvm

 

[Tommm]

My attention was firstly drawn to 4.8kw but it states 4/4.8kw so different controller, plus this motor has no fins probably for mounting considerations.

There have been some upgrades to this system since I got my bike.
The weakness of the bike is that the motor likes to spin 750rpm with 72v at the crank, but your legs only do 100 comfortably. So you can't pedal while riding, leading to a lesser range or a heavier more expensive battery.

But, there is an upgrade, as I said, with a new version the motor and pedal power are de-coupled.
[youtube]iq4eFBYhOyk[/youtube]

For stealth I could still recommend the cruiser/elite frame over the boxy eeb frame.
To accomodate this dual drive setup you would need to:
1, Since the motor is quite wide, you would need to ask for the fatbike version rear triangle of the frame (170mm instead of 148mm)
2, Since the motor and hub isn't mounted as a single unit in the elite frame(so the distance between hub and motor chainring will vary) , you would need a tensioning device mounted to the swingarm for the motor chain. Pedal chain already has the derailleur.
3, As far as I know it is easier to tension a variable length chain than a belt, I would go 9 speed chain on the other side too (the mounts look like bcd104, industry standard).

I would suggest not getting a battery from cyclone, it is far too safety critical. Have one built locally and make sure it is 72v. If you can build bikes I would suggest going only for frame+motor, much cheaper to ship. Rear suspension eye to eye you can max out at 205mm with a trunnion mount or 200m normal mount. On the headtube, you want the one with the bigger sizing, that will be the tapered one, it will let you use more modern forks.

 

[markz]

I have never dug the enduro type battery box, motorcycle looking e-bikes. Looks department: Stealthiness 100%, Riding characteristics: How can you hide the fact you arent pedaling up a hill at a good speed? Ghost/Fake pedaling. Even that, I'm too lazy to do. :lol:
----
" Since the motor and hub isn't mounted as a single unit in the elite frame(so the distance between hub and motor chainring will vary) , you would need a tensioning device mounted to the swingarm for the motor chain. Pedal chain already has the derailleur. "

- Yeah I just now noticed that in your video you linked to. That is the new system they have for the Elite. 750rpm is crazy, I doubt I even do 100rpm cadence the way my lazy ass is.
----
"chain than a belt"

- I don't like the yuppie belt system, I'd always prefer chain, cheap chains, but brand name like KMC.
----
"battery"

- I do my own batteries. I'll probably go nkon 25R cells next that come tab welded for an extra half euro.
----
"frame+motor, much cheaper to ship"

- I was thinking just that. Aliexpress wont have a mystery bike to fit that motor. Custom fab aint gunna happen. Stuck with whatever CycloneTW has to offer. Enduro or Elite frames.
----
"Rear suspension eye to eye you can max out at 205mm with a trunnion mount or 200m normal mount. On the headtube, you want the one with the bigger sizing, that will be the tapered one, it will let you use more modern forks."

- This is where I start having doubts, I'd need motorcycle rear suspension which would lead to mounting and travel restrictions. I can live with new-age tapered forks.
----

.

----
I'd probably weld me up a way-back/lean-back seat post to get my butt more rearward hence feet forward to get into a more cruising body position while riding. Depending on the wheelbase, axle-to-axle, then a new rear triangle or modify rear dropouts, or just leave it the way it is.

 

[Tommm]

I find the ride of the elite steel bike very comfortable, doing 30mph in river side banks, only thing you feel is a muted rumble under you. I got the biggest offset seatpost, and since my initial pic, I bought the lowest and longest rail seat possible, smp hybrid gel. I slammed it so far back the bolt shattered that came with my seat post due to leverage. :lol: I just put a different steel bolt in.

 

[markz]

Eyeball the distance between the center of the bb/crank axle to your tire.
I like to compare for sitting position.

I find the ride of the elite steel bike very comfortable, doing 30mph in river side banks, only thing you feel is a muted rumble under you. I got the biggest offset seatpost, and since my initial pic, I bought the lowest and longest rail seat possible, smp hybrid gel. I slammed it so far back the bolt shattered that came with my seat post due to leverage. :lol: I just put a different steel bolt in.

 

[Tommm]

Eyeball the distance between the center of the bb/crank axle to your tire.
I like to compare for sitting position.

No need, the drawing is public, the chain stay is very long, adding stability, difficult to wheelie both intentionally and unintentionally. In traffic with a light and powerful bike, that is a good thing. You want to go forward, not upward. :lol:

 

[sn0wchyld]

My attention was firstly drawn to 4.8kw but it states 4/4.8kw so different controller, plus this motor has no fins probably for mounting considerations.

There have been some upgrades to this system since I got my bike.
The weakness of the bike is that the motor likes to spin 750rpm with 72v at the crank, but your legs only do 100 comfortably. So you can't pedal while riding, leading to a lesser range or a heavier more expensive battery.

But, there is an upgrade, as I said, with a new version the motor and pedal power are de-coupled.
[youtube]iq4eFBYhOyk[/youtube]

For stealth I could still recommend the cruiser/elite frame over the boxy eeb frame.
To accomodate this dual drive setup you would need to:
1, Since the motor is quite wide, you would need to ask for the fatbike version rear triangle of the frame (170mm instead of 148mm)
2, Since the motor and hub isn't mounted as a single unit in the elite frame(so the distance between hub and motor chainring will vary) , you would need a tensioning device mounted to the swingarm for the motor chain. Pedal chain already has the derailleur.
3, As far as I know it is easier to tension a variable length chain than a belt, I would go 9 speed chain on the other side too (the mounts look like bcd104, industry standard).

I would suggest not getting a battery from cyclone, it is far too safety critical. Have one built locally and make sure it is 72v. If you can build bikes I would suggest going only for frame+motor, much cheaper to ship. Rear suspension eye to eye you can max out at 205mm with a trunnion mount or 200m normal mount. On the headtube, you want the one with the bigger sizing, that will be the tapered one, it will let you use more modern forks.

pretty much exactly what im looking for... cant see it on their site? (yet?)

 

[markz]

Theres quite a distance there, comparable to a compact cruiser but slightly less then a Townie. The square'ish chain stays would be easy to extend further out the rear dropout if required, better then welding up a new rear triangle.

 

[Tommm]

pretty much exactly what im looking for... cant see it on their site? (yet?)

elite-motor.com and cyclone-tw.com are their sites, but yea, this stuff is custom ordered, gather your requirements from the videos and pop them a mail, they reply multiple times a day. Not sure if they still ship due to virus situation though, I know cyc don't.

sales@cyclone-e-bikes . com

 

[markz]

Do you have a picture with clearer images of the numerical values for tube lengths.

No need, the drawing is public, the chain stay is very long, adding stability, difficult to wheelie both intentionally and unintentionally. In traffic with a light and powerful bike, that is a good thing. You want to go forward, not upward. :lol:

 

[Tommm]

Do you have a picture with clearer images of the numerical values for tube lengths.

No need, the drawing is public, the chain stay is very long, adding stability, difficult to wheelie both intentionally and unintentionally. In traffic with a light and powerful bike, that is a good thing. You want to go forward, not upward. :lol:

https://elite-motor.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/926507dc7f93631a094422215b778fe0/e/l/elitedwg_3_1.jpeg

 

[markz]

Gracias Senor

https://elite-motor.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/926507dc7f93631a094422215b778fe0/e/l/elitedwg_3_1.jpeg

 

[enduromac]

Hello. The version that you see in this video (version that is not in the photos: what a rambling site!) Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0C5hlyI6F1E do you think it could be hard off-road? it would be magnificent at that price, the 19 rear wheel, powerful enough, with the double transmission, the belt and that huge battery!

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

in the video it's a URT, unified rear triangle bike design.. not great for off-road (depending on riding style and expectations) bc the rider is standing on the swingarm and thus unsprung mass..

 

[enduromac]

oh my God!! How wrong! Thanks efMX, I did't see that, it's sooo sad! Are all the new Cyclone bikes with double transmission and belt URT?

 

[enduromac]

Maybe I can add a deralleur and some sprockets on a Vector Typhoon, do you think it's possible?

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

it's ok for for a commuter, but I like to stand off-road..

 

[enduromac]

You tell me !? I have the first 30% stony climb with steps alongside 400m from home! And it is obliged to reach the "operation" area

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Maybe I can add a deralleur and some sprockets on a Vector Typhoon, do you think it's possible?

You tell me !? I have the first 30% stony climb with steps alongside 400m from home! And it is obliged to reach the "operation" area

vector typhoon is also a URT .. but yes you could add a derailleur and some gears to vector.. cyclone or vector might work off-road.. maybe not best tool for the job though.. cyclone are known more for cheap than quality.. so expect to be keeping it maintained under hard use.. also look to see if there are any videos or others using the bike in a similar terrain or manner..

 

[Tommm]

oh my God!! How wrong! Thanks efMX, I did't see that, it's sooo sad! Are all the new Cyclone bikes with double transmission and belt URT?

You can adapt the elite frame to dual side by using the fat rear triangle and some planning. It doesn't have the motor as a part of the suspension.

 

[enduromac]

Call me poorly coherent but, the fact of always seeing the Cyclones in the city context, in the videos, and knowing that the Vector Typhoon is an URT, leads me to exclude the two options. Maybe I should open a separate discussion, to ask the community if they know something that (weight aside) can at least reach the same power to weight ratio of my LMX81 (4.5kw about 30kg), but with a huge battery, 19" rear wheel, and some possibilities to exert an effort on off-road, on pedals, with sensor (maybe!) And / or gear ratios.
Is there already any open discussion with similar requests / indications? Thanks so much

 

[markz]

Call me poorly coherent but, the fact of always seeing the Cyclones in the city context, in the videos, and knowing that the Vector Typhoon is an URT, leads me to exclude the two options. Maybe I should open a separate discussion, to ask the community if they know something that (weight aside) can at least reach the same power to weight ratio of my LMX81 (4.5kw about 30kg), but with a huge battery, 19" rear wheel, and some possibilities to exert an effort on off-road, on pedals, with sensor (maybe!) And / or gear ratios.
Is there already any open discussion with similar requests / indications? Thanks so much

Seems I'm not the only one that doesnt understand what your getting at.

Weight is not really an issue at a certain point. You even mentioned "(weight aside)"
19" rear hub will give you more torque off the line, up hills.... but slower top speed. You can excert as much effort as you wish, whether through pas magents, or torque sensing, or building to suit pedaling requirements. Gear ratios are important for pedaling, but most people dont pedal man, you even mention 4500W no one pedals.