Crystalyte NEW HIGH POWER hub motor...TheCrown

[RoughRider]

@amberwolf

the design of the new motor TheCrown doesnt cause any problems at the moment/so far...
at the moment it just looks unique and cool...

sorry mate....but...at the moment all your guessing about the design of the spokes and the used materials are pointless...
because at the moment you dont know what material the axle of this motor is made of...and if it will brake from just goig off a curb
and you dont know if the design will cause any problems at all...

so, lets wait to the first real world experiences with this new motor before badmouth about the design...

the "problem" of the special spokes is pointless to me... because i will just buy 10 extra spokes and thats it...and not gonna waist a second of my time thinking about it...

i am absolutely with you about the rims...such rims would be great
but...as i know Crystalyte doesnt make any rims...they just buy them
maybe you can convince crystalyte or their rim supplier to make such rims...that would be great

whats wrong with the G-motor design? is it about the special spokes again?
were there any issues about the spokes in the past? i mean others than: i cant buy the spokes from my dealer at the next corner...


i contacted cell-man through his website...but got no answer so far

 

[Drunkskunk]

the design of the new motor TheCrown doesnt cause any problems at the moment/so far...

And you know that because.....? Do you work for Crystalyte? Do you have access to Crystalyte's Research or testing statistics? Do you work for some company that does QC for Crystalyte?

 

[Kirk]

If done right, I like the idea of straight pull spokes. The elbow at the flange end of "normal" spokes has always bothered me. How they attach the straight spokes to the hub is what concerns me. Keeping a wheel properly stressed and true could be much better given the beating these take every day.

 

[RoughRider]

@Drunkskunk
no, no and no.

maybe you got me wrong.

I just want to say:
it is wrong to say that a product will cause problems just because it has a different design.

and saying that by just looking at some pics of that product.

sofar NOBODY at this forum knows anything about this motors quality...
thats why i am saying: lets wait to the first real world experiences with this new motor before badmouth about the design...

and forgive me...but i am in love with this motor...and my heart goes like a jungle drum....)

 

[MadRhino]

Yep, the surprises are coming later, to test your love.

I am sure that this motor will have some good and bad points, like the others.
To those who compare these spokes and flange to Mavic: You are dreamers

 

[amberwolf]

it is wrong to say that a product will cause problems just because it has a different design.

Not if one can see the potential problems that design can cause.

and saying that by just looking at some pics of that product.

There are things that the experienced person can see about designs just by seeing pictures of it, so certainly it is possible to see these and say what is surmised about it.

Once you've done enough failure analysis and observed enough problmes and failures, you learn the patterns of what causes them, and can see the flaws in new things without having to test them, especially if you know the history of the manufacturer and the materials and "QC" they use (or dont' use, in this case).

sofar NOBODY at this forum knows anything about this motors quality...

Nope, we just know quite well what the company itself does and doesn't do well, and it's highly unlikely they will have changed those things (or that they ever will, because it will cost them an awful lot of money to do so, and people would just buy other companies' stuff instead because of the huge price increase that would result in).

Most of us are realists here on ES, in general. Not always practical realists , but we tend to believe what we see with our own eyes and experience ourselves, and base our expectations of new things on that. And it's pretty hard to change our minds about things without hard data to prove change has happened. That includes changing our opinions of a company's reputation for mediocre designs and poor implementation of them, among other things.

 

[speedmd]

Possibly to take out a few pounds of copper. :|

And add lots of heating to the motor, among other notable problems caused by using Al instead of Cu.

Agreed! I am not suggesting anyone go that route, but it may have entered into their thinking. Aluminum would also be much less gyroscopic in a mid drive app.

Improvements always create other problems. Many improvements create initial loss in performance until all the "smaller" problems are minimized.

cheers

 

[miro13car]

we won't really know issues until 100's are out there being ridden hard.

didn't he RoughRider wrote that:
" Crystallite tested this design very carefully?"
Why more than one of you in this thread believe that it is customer who should test hard the new motor?
Should it be Crystallite "ride it hard" before trying to sell?????
BY writing this you do not believe already manufacturer.

 

[Chalo]

Aluminum would also be much less gyroscopic in a mid drive app.

The wiring does not spin. It's connected to the axle, which is fastened to the frame.

 

[speedmd]

Hi Chalo

Yes correct as a hub motor to winding are statcic. If were used as a mid drive motor as many here have, they would spin with the axle / drive shaft

 

[Chalo]

Yes correct as a hub motor to winding are statcic. If were used as a mid drive motor as many here have, they would spin with the axle / drive shaft

No. The axle still has to attach to something. There's just an output sprocket on the left side instead of a rim laced on.

If the windings rotated in any setup, you'd need a high current slip ring to conduct the motor leads into the windings.

 

[speedmd]

Yes Chalo, You would need a slip ring that way I was thinking. :lol: Or not thinking. Never gave it much thought as is not the way I am planning my build, but been reading all the posts on using hub motors in mid drive application just assuming you would use the shaft as a drive shaft.

 

[hi-powercycles]

To all those who contacted us about purchasing this motor. I just double checked the laminations and magnet stack. I made a mistake earlier- the magnet stack is about 40.5mm and the lamination stack as pictured in the photo is about 43mm. I will see about getting 42-44mm magnets in a future generation, but I believe the first 10 will still have the same 40.5mm magnet stack as the pre-production model. If this is not acceptable, let us know via email, and we will be happy to refund you. Sorry for the inconvenience- not trying to mislead anyone!

-Chris

 

[Hyena]

This figures. I build a monster around a 5404, and someone comes up with a bigger monster!

This could be an interesting motor. I wonder how it will hold up against the 530X and 540X motors in long hard high watt pulls, but for short shots, it may be a winner.

Don't reach for the razor blades just yet. For sustained high current use the 5404 is still the way to go. For burst power the lighter weight of this motor will make it shine (similarly with the H40s)

According to Crystalyte this motor is made for high Voltage(over 100V) and high Amps(over 70Amps)

So 7kw + ? If this motor can sustain that sort of power I'll eat my hat.

 

[RoughRider]

@Heyena

yeahhh...that would be cool...7kW continuous at only 9kg...that would be pritty good for a hub motor

TheCrown has better magnets(up to 150°C), better lamination and more copper inside the stator...maybe the 7kW is realistic

especially for a hub motor(because it spins with low rpm and the most losses at low rpm come from the current) high voltage and therefor lower current is a huge gain in power...

soo maybe with the better materials and a high voltage system TheCrown can realy go for 7kW(or even higher?) continuous

 

[MadRhino]

Why more than one of you in this thread believe that it is customer who should test hard the new motor?
Should it be Crystallite "ride it hard" before trying to sell?????
BY writing this you do not believe already manufacturer.

It is experience. You can't rely on them for QC and even if you could, they would never test it with the power that we like to feed.

 

[hjns]

It is experience. You can't rely on them for QC and even if you could, they would never test it with the power that we like to feed.

Which makes sense. They (Crystalyte) are hopefully looking for enough buffer / safeguards for their motors never to fail, whereas we are looking for the cutting edges where we can have maximum power without destroying the motor.....

In other words, even if they would do a thorough GC and solve all issues that have been highlighted in many threads here, many ES members would still burn some of these motors for the above stated reason.

I am still worried about the spokes, though. Having a non-standard spoke angle so that I can not lace it with my own spokes is for me a major nogo.

 

[hi-powercycles]

Sale is OVER for the first run. Hope you guys put the motor through its paces and enjoy them. If you are one of the few people who committed to purchasing but have not paid, we have set aside your motors so don't worry! Thanks for your support.

-Chris

 

[PeeHell]

Is it possible that the "feeled power" difference between the 40mm and The Crown is only because of the larger diameter (12.5mm more) ?

 

[dimpirate]

I know some of you have received this motor already! Spill the beans how's it looking anyone running it yet?

 

[Hyena]

Is it possible that the "feeled power" difference between the 40mm and The Crown is only because of the larger diameter (12.5mm more) ?

If you perceive more power then usually it's there. Assuming it's the same bike and all else is equal. I've ridden hardtails, plush downhill bikes and cruisers all with the same motor/battery/controller combo and they all feel quite different in terms of the power level.
The extra diameter is not some sort of placebo effect or purely visual design element though, bigger motors have more torque. This is why the magic pies have reasonable performance with a very narrow stator that's around half the width of most other DD motors.

I know some of you have received this motor already! Spill the beans how's it looking anyone running it yet?

Patience grasshopper, I'll be contributing some hard data to this discussion shortly :wink:

 

[full-throttle]

I'll be contributing some hard data to this discussion shortly :wink:

Hehe 'HARD' :lol:

 

[Hyena]

This motor aims to serve up stiff competition, only hard data will do. I just hope it doesn't fly in the face of crystalytes claims.

 

[full-throttle]

This motor aims to serve up stiff competition, only hard data will do. I just hope it doesn't fly in the face of crystalytes claims.

I can only add that crystalyte has been having erection problems in the last few years.

 

[Hyena]

I think the problem you're referring to was with the H35s. Not so much an erection problem but I think they got a bit excited and released their product too soon. Most are aware of chafing issues around the shaft and this led to some very short rides.