CYC PHOTON

[raylo32]

That is the same stand alone BB type used in the X1 series. I bought an extra one to keep as a spare for my X1 gen2 but my original is still working.

I hope it is more durable than torque sensor used in STEALTH GEN1

Mine died about 2 weeks ago after ~4000km (1 year of use). First torque sensor died (pas stopped working)

You can even hear odd cracking noise when I pedal

then a week after that cadence sensor went crazy

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

That is the same stand alone BB type used in the X1 series. I bought an extra one to keep as a spare for my X1 gen2 but my original is still working.

How many km have you done on x1?

 

[raylo32]

Not many, maybe 3 or 400?? It is on a dual suspension Stumpjumper MTB. But I have mostly been a pedal roadie biker and more recently been riding a TSDZ2 and now Photon on a converted hardtail with city tread tires. So the X1 bike hasn't got a lot of use.

How many km have you done on x1?

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

300 km is nothing so no wonder you had no issues. Nevertheless I already have bought a new one from fasterbikes.eu for 180 euro. Unlike cyc they give you proper 2 year warranty. 1 year warranty from cyc is totally unacceptable.

 

[hindesite]

I wonder what type of torque sensor does photon use?

E-Bike Torque Sensor Technology Comparison

How does different torque sensor technologies compare for e-bike/pedelec application? What is the best solution today and in the future?

sensitivus.com

I would guess contactless strain gauge, we've already seen the RFID chip they use as I pointed out earlier in this thread. Accurate, low power, easy to calibrate.

But - as usual - more information from CYC themselves would be nice.

Edit: (from CYC Photon marketing but actually refers to the Gen 3)

Equipped with our patent pending torque sensor module, we can give you a refined pedal assist system. The torque sensor module includes both a high sensitivity torque sensor strain gauge module and a cadence sensing module. The high number of poles of the cadence sensor ensures that we can control the sensitivity to a much higher degree & provides the opportunity to fine-tune the firmware alongside rider inputs.

 

[hindesite]

300 km is nothing so no wonder you had no issues. Nevertheless I already have bought a new one from fasterbikes.eu for 180 euro. Unlike cyc they give you proper 2 year warranty. 1 year warranty from cyc is totally unacceptable.

300km is probably about the high end of usage for many people who don't ride bikes but think getting an ebike will change all that. I doubt if our neighbours even cracked 20km...

 

[hindesite]

ROTOR CORE & MOTOR​

With mechanically retained magnets inside the CYC motors, they are designed to reach high RPMs without failing under heat stress.

Not only are the magnets mechanically secured but CYC used high grade quality magnets that can withstand up to 180 degrees Celsius. Much more than the motor will reach during your ride allowing for ease of mind during any conditions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like they are internal.

Your quote from CYC appears to refer to the X1 PRO & X1 STEALTH GEN 3, I cannot find anything similar for the Photon.

And yes, that is the inherent implication of being an outrunner rotor, different from their other products. While heat dissipation may be a problem, magnets flying off should not be.

 

[richj8990]

Your quote from CYC appears to refer to the X1 PRO & X1 STEALTH GEN 3, I cannot find anything similar for the Photon.

And yes, that is the inherent implication of being an outrunner rotor, different from their other products. While heat dissipation may be a problem, magnets flying off should not be.

I see now, it's one chain. No idea what the other guy is talking about unless he's dropping the single chain. The brackets do look pretty thin. Otherwise this looks really cool because you can still adjust the bb spacers to fit a wide variety of frames, and no 2nd chain BS to deal with. However I don't think they should brag too much about the weight of the motor, 7 lbs is not that far off most others. Mine feels super heavy and it's 9 lbs.

The quote was from a different site that apparently copied and pasted probably from a Stealth or X1 webpage, because the exact same wording is on those too.

 

[raylo32]

Agreed 300-400k is nothing, especially since I have had it for almost 2 years. I have that much on my Photon already and I have had it only a few weeks, and way more than that on the TSDZ2 and my pedal bikes. One thing that keeps the usage of the X1 bike low for me is that the Stumpjumper frame has no good spot to mount the battery. I tried under the downtube, in a backpack, and more recently a seatpost rack. This rack is designed for 30 pounds and it has worked OK so far. But I am not going to be hitting the rock gardens or logs at high speed with that setup. My usual ride is 5 miles on the road to the trailhead, then a 7 mile singletrack without too many obstacles, than 8 miles ride back on the roads.

300 km is nothing so no wonder you had no issues. Nevertheless I already have bought a new one from fasterbikes.eu for 180 euro. Unlike cyc they give you proper 2 year warranty. 1 year warranty from cyc is totally unacceptable.

 

[moped-dan]

60ish miles on mine and I'm very happy. I hope it holds up long term, my bbshd has 2000 miles without a single issue and I didn't baby it either.

A friendly reminder to grease everything on installation... about halfway through my ride today the cranks started creaking even when I checked they were tight. Drove me nuts the rest of the ride. Sure enough the one thing I forgot to grease was the splines of the crankshaft or whatever it's called. When I got home I pulled the cranks and greased the splines and back to silence thank god.

 

[raylo32]

I had the same issue initially, reported a couple pages ago. I didn't grease the crank splines but I did grease the BB threads. That's where you usually get these sorts of creaks. It's been quiet since.

60ish miles on mine and I'm very happy. I hope it holds up long term, my bbshd has 2000 miles without a single issue and I didn't baby it either.

A friendly reminder to grease everything on installation... about halfway through my ride today the cranks started creaking even when I checked they were tight. Drove me nuts the rest of the ride. Sure enough the one thing I forgot to grease was the splines of the crankshaft or whatever it's called. When I got home I pulled the cranks and greased the splines and back to silence thank god.

 

[Mongo]

Any one else got the 34t chainring? What do you think? What about the others, do the larger chainrings look OK?

Here are my thoughts so far:

The Photon 34t chainring is narrow-wide and 12sp compatible. It also appears to be compatible with Shimano HyperGlide chains (using SRAM Eagle on this bike though, for longevity). Note the tapered inside plates that HG chains have are accommodated by the small reliefs cut on the sides of the wide teeth.

View attachment 331991

The 34t chainring appears to be some grade of stainless steel, it is slightly magnetic – far less so than steel – and the quality of the machining and obvious difficulty getting a decent finish would suggest that quite a hard grade of stainless has been used. It looks like a machined casting or forging. In the photo you can see chunks missing from some of the teeth and variations in the metal itself. The finished surfaces that mate with the chain are quite rough, with score marks, sharp edges and burrs. The varying shape of the teeth and the poor machining tolerances are a concern.

When installing this chainring, the fit was very loose over its carrier - with play in all directions, and it took a LOT of torque to tighten the cover ring and take up the slack.

View attachment 331992

Maybe CYC have work to do in this area, particularly around some final finishing techniques that might become available if production runs increase. I don’t understand why the 34t chainring is so bad – the main crank shaft is stunning, meticulously finished and easily one of the best machined and finished pieces I’ve ever seen. In contrast, this chainring is "agricultural". Very disappointing, especially for the price.

Be interested to hear others views about the chainrings specifically.

A follow-up to this post, as I just got in a motor in with a 34T ring. The chain ring itself is a steel of some sort, slightly magnetic, and it's now anodized black. The carrier is aluminum, I think. Fit & finish-wise it looks consistent across the chain teeth, and the carrier slide fits onto the motor drive spline - slightly looser than my 38T ring, which needed a gentle push.

Otherwise, I don't see any other differences or changes between my first batch 38T ring motor and this one. Some bicycle parts for this build are still trickling in, so it'll be a few days before power can be applied

 

[hindesite]

A follow-up to this post, as I just got in a motor in with a 34T ring. The chain ring itself is a steel of some sort, slightly magnetic, and it's now anodized black. The carrier is aluminum, I think. Fit & finish-wise it looks consistent across the chain teeth, and the carrier slide fits onto the motor drive spline - slightly looser than my 38T ring, which needed a gentle push.

Otherwise, I don't see any other differences or changes between my first batch 38T ring motor and this one. Some bicycle parts for this build are still trickling in, so it'll be a few days before power can be applied

Thanks, that sounds very different to the 34T I received and it looks like CYC have refined the product. Mine really did look like a prototype product. I don't really care what it looks like, but I do worry that the teeth profiles may cause premature chain wear.

Downside of being among the first to order and receive the Photon I guess.

 

[67RS427]

I was originally thinking about a Gen 3 Stealth for my Marlin 8 build but now leaning towards the Photon. How is the Chainline with a SRAM PG-1210 Eagle, 11-50, 12 speed? My stock chainring is a 30T and Trek says "Max chainring size 1x/2x: 34T, 3x: 42T" (not sure if it's even applicable when the motor is installed). I know 12 speeds is way too many for an eBike and will probably switch to a Box One/Two groupset that's optimized for an eBike.

Any thoughts on using a MAX1 eBike battery from Jag35? (52v 20Ah 1040Wh w/ LG INR21700-M50L cells in 14S4P) He rates it at 40 amps continuous but I may use a higher end BMS instead. Space for a battery us very limited on my Marlin 8, S size frame with a slope in the top tube. MAX1 52V 20AH 1KWH 14S EBIKE BATTERY

 

[raylo32]

Cassette size is determined and limited by the derailleur. You could switch to a 1x rear mech and shifter to get a bigger large cog, but for a Photon e-bike you really don't need anything extreme. I have the Photon 42t chainring and an 11-32 8-speed cassette and I can climb anything. For me a mid-range 8 speed cassette works well with Photon. And that gear is cheap and readily available.

I was originally thinking about a Gen 3 Stealth for my Marlin 8 build but now leaning towards the Photon. How is the Chainline with a SRAM PG-1210 Eagle, 11-50, 12 speed? My stock chainring is a 30T and Trek says "Max chainring size 1x/2x: 34T, 3x: 42T" (not sure if it's even applicable when the motor is installed). I know 12 speeds is way too many for an eBike and will probably switch to a Box One/Two groupset that's optimized for an eBike.

Any thoughts on using a MAX1 eBike battery from Jag35? (52v 20Ah 1040Wh w/ LG INR21700-M50L cells in 14S4P) He rates it at 40 amps continuous but I may use a higher end BMS instead. Space for a battery us very limited on my Marlin 8, S size frame with a slope in the top tube. MAX1 52V 20AH 1KWH 14S EBIKE BATTERY

 

[67RS427]

Cassette size is determined and limited by the derailleur. You could switch to a 1x rear mech and shifter to get a bigger large cog, but for a Photon e-bike you really don't need anything extreme. I have the Photon 42t chainring and an 11-32 8-speed cassette and I can climb anything. For me a mid-range 8 speed cassette works well with Photon. And that gear is cheap and readily available.

I'd rather not replace the Cassette and shifter right away unless I have chainline issues. I was more curious if anyone else has installed a Photon or even a Stealth on a 12 speed cassette.

 

[Chalo]

I'd rather not replace the Cassette and shifter right away unless I have chainline issues. I was more curious if anyone else has installed a Photon or even a Stealth on a 12 speed cassette.

If you do that, you'll just be wasting expensive parts for no benefit. Mid drives wreck your chain drive components, and close gear spacing doesn't matter when you have superhuman amounts of power to work with.

Feeding a 12 speed system to a mid drive is the same as feeding a fancy vegan restaurant meal to a dog. It's extravagant and pointless, all over very quickly, and the dog doesn't even enjoy it much.

Check out Microshift Acolyte 8. You can get the whole deal-- rear derailleur, shifter, and cassette-- for less than the price of some 12 speed cassettes.

 

[raylo32]

Chainline does not depend on how many cogs you have... the overall width is the same, the 12s are just a bit closer together. My next Photon build will be on an 11-speed Shimano GRX bike with 11-34 cassette range. At least to start with. I'd go with something
lesser like an old set of 10-speed I have laying around except this GRX bike has hydro brakes and brifters..

I'd rather not replace the Cassette and shifter right away unless I have chainline issues. I was more curious if anyone else has installed a Photon or even a Stealth on a 12 speed cassette.

 

[raylo32]

The problem the OP might have with that is like my GRX. If you have hydro brakes the changeover to something like the Microshift is a lot more painful. Especially like my bike where everything is internally routed including the handlebars. Easier to just use what we have, even if the parts might cost a bit more.

Check out Microshift Acolyte 8. You can get the whole deal-- rear derailleur, shifter, and cassette-- for less than the price of some 12 speed cassettes.

 

[67RS427]

If you do that, you'll just be wasting expensive parts for no benefit. Mid drives wreck your chain drive components, and close gear spacing doesn't matter when you have superhuman amounts of power to work with.

Feeding a 12 speed system to a mid drive is the same as feeding a fancy vegan restaurant meal to a dog. It's extravagant and pointless, all over very quickly, and the dog doesn't even enjoy it much.

Check out Microshift Acolyte 8. You can get the whole deal-- rear derailleur, shifter, and cassette-- for less than the price of some 12 speed cassettes.

The expensive parts are already installed on the bike so it's not like I'm going out and buying that stuff. I totally understand the 12 speed is overkill but it's what my bike has already and why I mention I would probably switch to a Box Components 8 Speed or something similar. Just wondering if it would be problematic trying to run it on my stock cassette and shifter before I made an unnecessary switch. Obviously I would probably only use 3 or 4 gears out of my stock cassette to start.

The problem the OP might have with that is like my GRX. If you have hydro brakes the changeover to something like the Microshift is a lot more painful. Especially like my bike where everything is internally routed including the handlebars. Easier to just use what we have, even if the parts might cost a bit more.

That is part of my worry. I do have hydraulic brakes but plan to upgrade them anyways soon. They are just Shimano MT200's so I would want a bigger rotor and stronger caliper for the speeds this mid drive will be pushing me at. I'm really not sure how hard it is to route a new shifter cable on these frames. I do have 2 extra slots on the right side of the frame I would attempt to run some of the wiring through. I'd have to cut and solder wires but that's no big deal and probably well worth it to get a clean look in the end.

 

[moped-dan]

My main issue is that I have a mount for a secondary battery, EGO 52V tool battery on the rear rack, and I had it all prewired to be able to swap plugs from the downtube Shark to the EGO. Now that will have to be rewired because of the different motor wire bundle location. If I use one of my 5Ah EGO batteries with the Photon, I'll have to make sure I am in street mode to avoid pulling too many amps. Didn't have that issue with TSDZ2.

@raylo32

What power limit do you set for yourself with the EGO batteries? Just curious

 

[raylo32]

~750W, like a TSDZ2 on max power. The 5Ah EGO batteries work fine at that level. I bet the larger EGOs (7.5 and 10) could handle Photon full power.

@raylo32

What power limit do you set for yourself with the EGO batteries? Just curious

 

[raylo32]

Here's how to make the EGO battery mount with a 3D printer. Bit of a PITA but works great. Might be easier to harvest a socket from a broken tool if you can find one for cheap.

EGO 56V Battery Mount for E-Bike or Other Project by raylo32

This is a battery mount that will accept EGO 56V (they really are 52V but that's a whole other story) tool batteries and enable you to tap their power for an e-bike or other project. This can come in handy if you don't have access to a dead EGO tool to harvest the battery mount. Those broken...

www.thingiverse.com

 

[Mongo]

If the Marlin 8 has a 73mm English BB and the 12-speed rear is 135 O.L.D., I think the Photon chain line would be 49.8mm - and again, I think, likely moving the chain line out on a 12-speed cassette approx. 1.25 gear positions.

For my 9-speed, I figured it moved out 1 gear. Based on other's experiences, if you use a quality chain, keep after maintenance, monitor chain stretch, and be nice while shifting, the 12-speed drivetrain may hold up better than one would expect - especially if your intent is to pedal it mostly.

Also depends on whether, in analog form, the bike's chain line was centered originally.

Damned if I can remember though if the CYC Photon chainrings support 12-speed chains.

 

[raylo32]

What about 11? That's my next build and changing the mech isn't really an option.

Damned if I can remember though if the CYC Photon chainrings support 12-speed chains.