CYC PHOTON

[Chalo]

BTW, for those not familiar with 1x wide range chainsets, backpedaling in the largest gears will often cause the chain to shift, this is regarded as normal and not a chainline issue as such.

It may be regarded as normal, but it is a malfunction caused by poor chainline. So what you're saying is that with typical implementations of modern 1X gearing, this kind of malfunction is common enough to be considered normal.

When I started rolling my own 1X systems in the early '90s buy stacking up custom 12-38t freewheels and using super long cage Suntour derailleurs. They didn't have that malfunction, because I got the chainline correct and I used bikes with good long chainstays.

 

[steve s]

I've built and sold quite a few Bridge Clubs. They look wrong and are too cramped with 700c wheels. 650B (27.5") wheels look and work fine, but what would fit, look, and work awesomely best would be 26 x 3.0".

As far as what you should do with it? Have fun and get lots of saddle time, of course!

I'm definitely moving my photon and rack to it. I'm going to put a set of 700x47 because it's what I have and will be good for the bikes main purpose of running errands but am definitely going to get set of 27.5 rims and some more meaty mtb tires for trail rides.

 

[Chalo]

I'm definitely moving my photon and rack to it. I'm going to put a set of 700x47 because it's what I have and will be good for the bikes main purpose of running errands but am definitely going to get set of 27.5 rims and some more meaty mtb tires for trail rides.

If what you have is true 47mm width, that's gonna be really tight. The 700x41 stock tires on the 700c Bridge Club don't have a lot of clearance. Real 29ers don't fit.

26 x 3.0" tires make the clearance pretty uniform all the way around, rather than gaping on the sides but getting restricted at the center of the tread. Overall inflated diameter is very close to 27.5 x 2.4".

 

[steve s]

If what you have is true 47mm width, that's gonna be really tight. The 700x41 stock tires on the 700c Bridge Club don't have a lot of clearance.

26 x 3.0" tires make the clearance pretty uniform all the way around, rather than gaping on the sides but getting restricted at the center of the tread. Overall inflated diameter is very close to 27.5 x 2.4".

Thank you and noted. The 700x47 are the biggest tire I currently have so it's just a matter of sticking a wheel on so nothing lost to trying it. Not sure what I will end up with in the end

 

[67RS427]

What voltage are you all running your batteries down to when running the Photons? I had mine cut off on me when my battery voltage dropped to 48v (14S/52v nominal battery). Minimum voltage in the Ride Control app is set to 40v, my BMS is supposedly programmed for a 39v cut off. I know the voltage sags a bit but I have not seen any "Controller Under Voltage" errors on the display at all. Does it just shut down on you or does it show that error? Trying to figure out if it's my battery or not.

Also, what are the black bars on the DS103 display for? Are they supposed to be battery percentage or something else? I see no mention of it in the manuals. Thanks!

 

[67RS427]

Battery voltage

So mine being at one bar with 49.5v on the display and 48v measured is pretty dead and perhaps I shouldn’t still be running in unrestricted race mode on throttle? lol, that might explain why it shut off but I still thought I’d see an error code for the low voltage if it dropped below 42v with sag.

 

[tomholz]

So at present you have a 59.3 chainline, what is the chainline you are trying to achieve, and what problems does the current setting cause?

On the narrower BSA version of the Photon that I have, the chainline came out perfect, exactly the same as the previously installed DUB chainring, I'd be surprised if CYC got the BB92 wrong.

BTW, for those not familiar with 1x wide range chainsets, backpedaling in the largest gears will often cause the chain to shift, this is regarded as normal and not a chainline issue as such.

The bike I converted (Canyon Nerve 8.9) previously hab a 3x11 Shimano XT. Now with the Photon the chain is straight when I'm on 4th fastest gear. Ideally it should be straight when being on the middle, I think, so the 6th fastest so to say.
Currently I can shift in the smallest gear, but chain is very bent and it doesn't sound good.
So moving 6-7mm to the left would be perfect, I think.

 

[tomholz]

What voltage are you all running your batteries down to when running the Photons? I had mine cut off on me when my battery voltage dropped to 48v (14S/52v nominal battery). Minimum voltage in the Ride Control app is set to 40v, my BMS is supposedly programmed for a 39v cut off. I know the voltage sags a bit but I have not seen any "Controller Under Voltage" errors on the display at all. Does it just shut down on you or does it show that error? Trying to figure out if it's my battery or not.

I configured BMS to 2.5V/cell so 35V total, to protect the cells from damage. In the Photon I set low voltage limit to 38V, as I want not to use cells below 3V/cell -> total 42V, and then I subtract the voltage sag under heavy load (2kW) of ~4V, so resulting in 38V.
But only tested it once, to check if my BMS does good SoC calculation: It shut down with around 5% according to Daly BMS, so seemed all ok.

 

[67RS427]

I configured BMS to 2.5V/cell so 35V total, to protect the cells from damage. In the Photon I set low voltage limit to 38V, as I want not to use cells below 3V/cell -> total 42V, and then I subtract the voltage sag under heavy load (2kW) of ~4V, so resulting in 38V.
But only tested it once, to check if my BMS does good SoC calculation: It shut down with around 5% according to Daly BMS, so seemed all ok.

Did the Photon display just shut off without warning or did you get a low voltage error first? Mine just shut off on me with no error.

 

[raylo32]

I was riding with my EGO "56v" (really 52V nominal) battery the other day taking it to empty and the only time I had the drive power cutout was when the battery got down to ~35V. And then only when forced lower by pedaling induced voltage sag. Photon itself never lost power. I assume that was the EGO BMS cutting it off.

Did the Photon display just shut off without warning or did you get a low voltage error first? Mine just shut off on me with no error.

 

[67RS427]

I was riding with my EGO "56v" (really 52V nominal) battery the other day taking it to empty and the only time I had the drive power cutout was when the battery got down to ~35V. And then only when forced lower by sag. Photon itself never lost power. I assume that was the EGO BMS cutting it off.

Thanks for the info. Curious how many Ah your battery is and what was your mileage?

 

[raylo32]

That was a 5Ah EGO battery. Ran out of gas at 15 miles. I used a lower assist level so that it wouldn't exceed 750W with that battery. My main battery is a high current 11.5Ah super shark. I have done ~35 miles with that several times but always with some reserve at the end.

Thanks for the info. Curious how many Ah your battery is and what was your mileage?

 

[raylo32]

I took a look at that frame online and I see what you mean about the wide side clearance. That could look odd with a taller skinny tire. Big old school steel frame... That is gonna be one heavy e-bike.

I've built and sold quite a few Bridge Clubs. They look wrong and are too cramped with 700c wheels. 650B (27.5") wheels look and work fine, but what would fit, look, and work awesomely best would be 26 x 3.0".

As far as what you should do with it? Have fun and get lots of saddle time, of course!

 

[Mongo]

Thank you and noted. The 700x47 are the biggest tire I currently have so it's just a matter of sticking a wheel on so nothing lost to trying it. Not sure what I will end up with in the end

I agree with @Chalo on the 26" wheel path. If you later decide to buy some 26" wheels/tires, Halo has some nicely priced 36 spoke 26" 100/135 QR wheels that will accommodate "mid-fat" tires - if your frameset dropouts will hold 'em.

I have one of the rear wheels and have been running it heavily loaded, with a Schwalbe Pick-up tire, and yanked on by a BBS02.

 

[steve s]

I took a look at that frame online and I see what you mean about the wide side clearance. That could look odd with a taller skinny tire. Big old school steel frame... That is gonna be one heavy e-bike.

The steel marin I built Is 35# no battery I know the surly will be heavier but I don't think by a bunch. Honestly these days I don't care too much about looking odd I even bought a front basket to add more grocery capability

 

[moped-dan]

The steel marin I built Is 35# no battery I know the surly will be heavier but I don't think by a bunch. Honestly these days I don't care too much about looking odd I even bought a front basket to add more grocery capability

You'll love it. I have my photon on a surly ogre and it is a tank but I love the bike. I am considering moving it to an old aluminium hardtail though.

I like the new ride control app, it fixes a few of the annoying things with the previous one.

 

[steve s]

You'll love it. I have my photon on a surly ogre and it is a tank but I love the bike. I am considering moving it to an old aluminium hardtail though.

I like the new ride control app, it fixes a few of the annoying things with the previous one.

I was looking at the ogre but settled on the bridge club as it's a little more directed towards road riding I love steel bikes especially for electric I'm always a little leery about aluminum fatigue life. Not a strong conviction but my bosses steerer tube just cracked down the center and that was casual pedal only road riding.

 

[67RS427]

Anyone running the DS103? I can’t get mine to boot up in Dark Mode regardless of the setting. It always starts up in White mode even with Dark in the settings. I have to change it manually every time I start it which is frustrating.

 

[Mongo]

Anyone running the DS103? I can’t get mine to boot up in Dark Mode regardless of the setting. It always starts up in White mode even with Dark in the settings. I have to change it manually every time I start it which is frustrating.

Mine as well. Because of that issue and some other dislikes, it's now in the spare parts box.

Maybe there's a trick to the setting. Maybe the firmware is defective. Maybe CYC will update it somehow.

 

[67RS427]

Mine as well. Because of that issue and some other dislikes, it's now in the spare parts box.

Maybe there's a trick to the setting. Maybe the firmware is defective. Maybe CYC will update it somehow.

I like the display besides that and the fact you need the app to switch to Race mode which isn’t a big deal since I have my phone mounted and app running anyways. Other than that, it’s easy to read and gives my plenty of info. I do wish the screen space was better optimized. My battery voltage reads about 1.5v high on the display which bothers me the most out of everything I think. What else did you notice? Also, why the heck can’t the app connect automatically? Gotta search for the controller every damn time which is pretty stupid. I do notice the motor power and some other info is lagged on the app or display, they don’t really match often.

 

[Mongo]

I like the display besides that and the fact you need the app to switch to Race mode which isn’t a big deal since I have my phone mounted and app running anyways. Other than that, it’s easy to read and gives my plenty of info. I do wish the screen space was better optimized. My battery voltage reads about 1.5v high on the display which bothers me the most out of everything I think. What else did you notice? Also, why the heck can’t the app connect automatically? Gotta search for the controller every damn time which is pretty stupid. I do notice the motor power and some other info is lagged on the app or display, they don’t really match often.

On mine/my gripes:

1. the voltage reads 1.2 volts low, and I've ridden BBS motors too long to trust the displayed battery bars (poor excuse)
2. the bottom text size is too small for my eyes
3. the graphic is too big and wasteful
4. the data/real estate priority is not the way I want it, and the important stuff is not glance-readable
5. AFAIK, no race/street selector
6. doesn't retain light/dark mode preset
7. no USB power output port
8. switch panel hard-wired, and wire too short for very wide/long bars - not a problem for me, but it will be for some
9. display washes out in bright sunlight and/or via white t-shirt reflection

Also, my preference now is to leave the center bar real estate available for a GPS mapping device, so I prefer a side-mount display position. The 500C is about the right size, but not compatible with the Photon (quirks).

I don't use the phone app while riding (don't want to risk a phone pop-off), and I'm getting to the point that I don't care that much about what CYC's displays report, 'cause I can't glance-read what I care about.

Whine, whine, whine!

At least the motor quality seems up there, and I'm liking the torque-sensing.

 

[67RS427]

On mine/my gripes:

1. the voltage reads 1.2 volts low, and I've ridden BBS motors too long to trust the displayed battery bars (poor excuse)
2. the bottom text size is too small for my eyes
3. the graphic is too big and wasteful
4. the data/real estate priority is not the way I want it, and the important stuff is not glance-readable
5. AFAIK, no race/street selector
6. doesn't retain light/dark mode preset
7. no USB power output port
8. switch panel hard-wired, and wire too short for very wide/long bars - not a problem for me, but it will be for some
9. display washes out in bright sunlight and/or via white t-shirt reflection

Also, my preference now is to leave the center bar real estate available for a GPS mapping device, so I prefer a side-mount display position. The 500C is about the right size, but not compatible with the Photon (quirks).

I don't use the phone app while riding (don't want to risk a phone pop-off), and I'm getting to the point that I don't care that much about what CYC's displays report, 'cause I can't glance-read what I care about.

Whine, whine, whine!

At least the motor quality seems up there, and I'm liking the torque-sensing.

It’s weird that your voltage reads low by that much and mine is reading high. The text size doesn’t bother me at all and I find in dark mode I can see everything just fine even in direct sunlight. I do also find the large graphic a little wasteful and they could probably fit double the info if they shrank it down. The bottom text is perfectly readable for me but I wear glasses. USB port would be nice for sure and I also have no uses with the wire length on my 720mm wide bars, not sure how much wider one would even go. My install came out perfect with no extra wires hanging.

 

[Mongo]

Thanks @67RS427 - the problematical bars I'm thinking about are the long & sweep-back beach cruiser bars and/or wide bars that have a lot of rise. The older center-mount displays had a connector in between, so if you needed some extension or the switch pad conked out, you were covered. They also had a USB-A output, so it can be done.

Dunno about sun washout or lack of - down at my latitude on bright sunny days, it's blanked out even at full brightness (though maybe that's part of the problem, come to think of it).

The actual voltage shouldn't matter (dunno the remaining gallons in my car gas tank), but I've come accustomed to watching it for sags, range conservation, etc.

 

[raylo32]

Mongo post at 3:39 AM

Mongo need sleep!

 

[Mongo]

Mongo sleep. New day.

It's a hot HOT day and a long hill ride, so I decided to push the new Photon Build till it won't anymore, at least at full 2kw throttle abuse. I slid on a 52-volt 25AH battery with a 50amp BMS (~2.6kw), and off we went.

At around 210°F indicated on the SW102 display, the motor power gracefully pulled back to 750 watts. No muss, no fuss, no melted gears, no burnt-up controller or roasted core - still good, running, and riding. Thanks CYC. This is what ALL of these CPU-controlled motors should do.

Boo Bafang, and especially Tongsheng. NO excuses. ToSeven? I dunno how they operate, but if that former Tongsheng engineer, given a second chance, didn't learn the lesson ...

It's too early in the long-term reliability lifecycle, but I think CYC got the Photon motor/controller unit correct. The displays? Feh.