Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

[chucho]

The Lyen controller may have a different CA interface type than the Greentime. You haven't told us your settings, how anything is wired, or whether you are using normal or legacy mode, so that's just a guess.

In any case, If you change controllers you need to go through the entire installation procedure in the Guide starting with the test in step 4.2.1.1. This will get the proper wiring for the (possibly changed) interface type, re-align the throttle voltages, and get the ramping and gain adjustments corrected.

Thank you very much!!

I have done what you said and the lyen controler i have seems to be V2 compatible ( and i say seems cause in the manual says to do that check with out modifying any parameters before :? and the seller always said it was V3 compatible ).

Anyway... do i need to put a 1k resistor on the lyen throttle wire? so it detects there is a throttle conected or in lyen´s controlers it is not necesary?

Pd: to answer your questions... in legacy mode it only works untill 15km/h and in normal mode detects throttle but does not work. :|

 

[teklektik]

I have done what you said and the lyen controler i have seems to be V2 compatible.

Anyway... do i need to put a 1k resistor on the lyen throttle wire? so it detects there is a throttle conected or in lyen´s controlers it is not necesary?

Pd: to answer your questions... in legacy mode it only works untill 15km/h and in normal mode detects throttle but does not work. :|

Okay - sounds like you tracked down the core issue .

The question is: what mode do you want to use: legacy or normal?

• if legacy mode, then you can plug things together as in 4.2.1.1/D (p.17), connect the throttle to the controller, and make the throttle setting in 4.6.2/2 (p.25). You should be ready to ride with no other modifications. This might be a good first step to get you on the road.
• if normal mode, then you can choose whichever of the four techniques in section 4.2.1.1/B (p.16) you prefer - they will all work - different folks have different skills and different parts on hand. Then Hook up the throttle to the CA, and proceed with the throttle voltage tuning, etc in section 4.6.2/1 (p.24).
  
  If you want to add a resistor and do so inside the case instead of externally, you can use this variation:
  
  
  • Remove the existing CA-DP pin 6 Throttle Out wire and the existing controller throttle wire from the PCB. The old CA Throttle Out connection point will not be used.
  • Build/solder the resistor/wire assembly above first where there are no PCB tight wiring considerations.
  • Then sleeve the entire resistor and solder joints with a piece of shrink then insert the protruding lower resistor wire of the finished mod into the old PCB throttle connection pad as a final step.
  • Solder on the underside pad.
  Use a 1/4W or 1/2W resistor to improve lead strength since the wiring gets stressed opening/closing the case. This will might give you a tidier package and a V3-compatible controller, but really offers no electrical advantages. Personally, I don't like to open controllers and prefer the easy external hookups...

 

[chucho]

I have done what you said and the lyen controler i have seems to be V2 compatible.

Anyway... do i need to put a 1k resistor on the lyen throttle wire? so it detects there is a throttle conected or in lyen´s controlers it is not necesary?

Pd: to answer your questions... in legacy mode it only works untill 15km/h and in normal mode detects throttle but does not work. :|

Okay - sounds like you tracked down the core issue .

The question is: what mode do you want to use: legacy or normal?

• if legacy mode, then you can plug things together as in 4.2.1.1/D (p.17), connect the throttle to the controller, and make the throttle setting in 4.6.2/2 (p.25). You should be ready to ride with no other modifications. This might be a good first step to get you on the road.
• if normal mode, then you can choose whichever of the four techniques in section 4.2.1.1/B (p.16) you prefer - they will all work - different folks have different skills and different parts on hand. Then Hook up the throttle to the CA, and proceed with the throttle voltage tuning, etc in section 4.6.2/1 (p.24).
  
  If you want to add a resistor and do so inside the case instead of externally, you can use this variation:
  
  
  • Remove the existing CA-DP pin 6 Throttle Out wire and the existing controller throttle wire from the PCB. The old CA Throttle Out connection point will not be used.
  • Build/solder the resistor/wire assembly above first where there are no PCB tight wiring considerations.
  • Then sleeve the entire resistor and solder joints with a piece of shrink then insert the protruding lower resistor wire of the finished mod into the old PCB throttle connection pad as a final step.
  • Solder on the underside pad.
  Use a 1/4W or 1/2W resistor to improve lead strength since the wiring gets stressed opening/closing the case. This will might give you a tidier package and a V3-compatible controller, but really offers no electrical advantages. Personally, I don't like to open controllers and prefer the easy external hookups...

My question in fact is if the old lyen 12 fets 4110 (for V2 protocol) needs to be used with a 1k resistor (to simulate throttle conection) because i have conect it as case 3 says and it does not work either to reject that and look for another problem :?

 

[teklektik]

My question in fact is if the old lyen 12 fets 4110 (for V2 protocol) needs to be used with a 1k resistor (to simulate throttle conection) because i have conect it as case 3 says and it does not work either to reject that and look for another problem :?

Ah - okay - I didn't understand...
No - these Xie Chang controllers don't look at the throttle power so adding the 1K across throttle +/- will have no effect.

The Case 3 hookup is basic - not much that can go wrong - a reliable choice.

So - assuming you are configured for normal operation:
Please check the OUT field on the CA Diagnostic Screen to ensure the Throttle Out voltage changes properly with throttle motion
(varies between ThrO->MinOut and ThrO->MaxOut).

• If no - there is some configuration issue.
• If yes - with case 3 the Sense pin on the controller throttle connector should show the CA throttle Out voltage - so, if possible, verify the throttle voltage varies as does the OUT field by measuring across the (unused) controller throttle Sense and Gnd connections.
  • If no - then there is a wiring error in the mod.
  • If yes - then there is something else weird going on with the controller... more snooping required.

 

[chucho]

Thank you very much again :wink: But i am tottaly desperate
I have done a video cause i have now played with nearly every parameter on the CA and the fuc... wheel never moves :?
At first i am using the throtle as you can see in the CA but wheel does not move. After that i go throw parameters...
I have not conect pass to have less variables.
I am using:
24s lipo 5000mha
lyen 12fets 4110 shunt modded (ecross told me to use about 0,999mOhm shunt)
9c 2809
Using normal mode

Hopefully someone can spot the parameters or parameter that are wrong and break me free of this nightmare.

Thank you in advanced for your help... and sorry for asking this way i allways try to solve things my self cause i learn more and for ever the things i find out but this has become a real nightmare for me
[youtube]YnVBSYXq2wY[/youtube]

 

[NeilP]

Have not looked at the video, I would not know what to look for ...but have you tried to re flash the controller with new firmware.

I believe doing this does a complete default reset of all parameters. So you will be starting as if you have a new CA. then as teklectik suggested earlier go back and start from the beginning again

 

[teklektik]

Spot on Neil. The Guide is very careful about only setting a small set of vital parameters so extra settings don't upset things. Because of interactions, diagnosing erroneous settings can be daunting for the novice CA user. It's a wonderful device but it can be vexing....

The problem is clear in the first few seconds of the video. Thanks for posting it - it got us to the answer quickly.

Here's a quote from page 9 of the Guide:


From your video:

 

[chucho]

Spot on Neil. The Guide is very careful about only setting a small set of vital parameters so extra settings don't upset things. Because of interactions, diagnosing erroneous settings can be daunting for the novice CA user. It's a wonderful device but it can be vexing....

The problem is clear in the first few seconds of the video. Thanks for posting it - it got us to the answer quickly.

Here's a quote from page 9 of the Guide:

View attachment 1
From your video:

Thank you very much
That was one of the things i changed finaly cause i was desperate but i have changed again to 0.00 km/h... it does not flash anymore but i does not work either

There must be another error

 

[teklektik]

Bummer - thought we had it there....

Setup looks basically okay unless I missing something (EDIT - I did - see below), but as indicated in the Guide, you should be using the default ThrI->CntrlMode of PassThru instead of Power Throttle. Please change this.

What were the results of the tests in the previous post above looking at the OUT value and checking the voltage with a meter while sweeping the throttle?

This will tell whether there is a problem with the settings or the controller/wiring.


EDIT - You are running in Hi Power mode so your AGain and WGain should have been multiplied by 10. You are using a WGain of only 50 so the throttle response will be very slow when using Power Throttle as you were and the limiting action for will be similarly slow for all other throttle modes. This may be what you intended, but I recommend that you reset it to 500 to start.

Again - we are struggling with old settings and not following the Guide procedure from a virgin start....

 

[chucho]

Oh my god!!! if you where near i will give you a kiss no homo :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have just changed the PassThru instead of Power Throttle and it works!! The main problem was that they told me the controler had CAv3 and it did not... so asuming everything was well conected i start freaking with CA and finaly changing nearly every setting trying to find what was wrong and when i found out it was V2 protocol it was too late

I think i will have other CA configuration questions but i will try to find and solve them my self before asking.

Thank you very very much for your time and knowledge!! You dont now how happy you made me after 3 days struggle.

Bummer - thought we had it there....

Setup looks basically okay unless I missing something (EDIT - I did - see below), but as indicated in the Guide, you should be using the default ThrI->CntrlMode of PassThru instead of Power Throttle. Please change this.

What were the results of the tests in the previous post above looking at the OUT value and checking the voltage with a meter while sweeping the throttle?

This will tell whether there is a problem with the settings or the controller/wiring.


EDIT - You are running in Hi Power mode so your AGain and WGain should have been multiplied by 10. You are using a WGain of only 50 so the throttle response will be very slow when using Power Throttle as you were and the limiting action for will be similarly slow for all other throttle modes. This may be what you intended, but I recommend that you reset it to 500 to start.

Again - we are struggling with old settings and not following the Guide procedure from a virgin start....

 

[teklektik]

Excellent news!
Enjoy!!

 

[NeilP]

Could the powers on here please add a link on the very first page of this thread direct to the latest firmware page.

I have just had a brief search and just can't find it.
I just wanted to see if i was up to date, and download the latest again , do a fresh flash so I can start afresh. It has been many moths since I last did any work on this current build and have no idea where I left it...so just going to start from scratch and learn all that I have forgotten.

I had this issue before..the latest firmware is never easy to find.

thanks and sorry for being a lazy bastard

 

[teklektik]

• All PC utilities, drivers, and firmware downloads are available on the Grin Tech V3 page here (the authoritative source).
  The link to this page in the OP of this thread is outdated and should be repaired. (EDIT - Done!)
  
  
• Alternate links to the same material is available from the Unofficial Guide Download page (linked in the first line of the OP of this thread).
  You have to scroll down quite a way in the index of posts to get to the firmware section ("hidden in plain sight" comes to mind... ).

 

[NeilP]

That is exactly my point, it takes a lot of digging to find it.

Like your index post, something like that should have a link on the front page. I have found it in the past and no doubt will again .but it is a right PITA when I feel it should br gith up there in the first post.

On a two or three page thread, yes you can dig through, but 104 pages, and even a long index thread..it is a lot of digging.

This is why the time has probably come for a separate CA v3 sub forum, with various stickies at the top

 

[OCD Garage]

Hi all:

I have 2 bikes with Greentime controllers that have a CA direct plug. I ran the test to see whether they are v2 or v3 compatible, turns out they are only v2 compatible. I did the green sensor wire bypass as shown in the 'unofficial manual' (example #1), everything works well in throttle pass-thru mode. When trying to use throttle Amps or throttle Watts to limit the power of the motor the controller seems to ignore these limitations and continues to show 40amps 1700 watts although I have programmed it for 20 amps 500 watts. I have turned up the values for Again and Wgain but there is no limiting being performed and the limit flags in the diagnostic screen do not show as active (not shown in capital letters). Is it possible for the controller to ignore the limiting? Another peculiar thing is the throttle when in Amp/Watt throttle is either full on or off, not variable. When in pass-thru throttle it acts normally and is variable speed. Could there be a software conflict in the controller? I've spent more than 2 full days changing parameters, resetting and starting over, it reads to be simple to set up but I just can't get anywhere. I just want to reduce the power of this controller for a 'legal' mode. Any suggestions would be appreciated as they both have identical problems. It seems like all the v2 functions work but the amp/watt limiting of v3 is not supported. :|

Thanks

Alan

 

[evolutiongts]

I have the same issue as well.

 

[OCD Garage]

I don't suppose you're running a Greentime controller are you?

It makes no sense that I can set relatively low limit values (20amp 500watt) and have tried Again/Wgain values from 20 - 999 and no limiting occurs, the off/full throttle is just icing on the cake. I have connected in the recommended way and made so many adjustments I don't see what else it could be other than the controller ignoring the v3 limiting functions.

Is it just two of us with this problem?

Thanks

 

[NeilP]

Don't take this the wrong way, a couple of comments may sound a bit rude..not intended that way i do want to help..honest..


I was going to say you have not read my previous post in reply to a post of the Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:06 pm, but I look back and my post is not there . I know exactly what has happened...frocking iPhone !!. That is the trouble of reading any forum on a small mobile device. Press post and put the device away, and it has not posted. OK< so rant over back to the problem, where I'll try and remember what I tried to post before

I don't suppose you're running a Greentime controller are you?

No but that is irrelevant

made so many adjustments I don't see what else it could be

I reckon that is your problem, too much fiddling without understanding what is join ton , and how the CA works

other than the controller ignoring the v3 limiting functions.

The controller is not ignoring limiting functions the CA DOES NOT SEND IT ANY LIMITING SIGNALS

The problem, I believe (until I am proved otherwise) is that you and others not reading and understanding the manual and what the CA does.


If you have wired correctly to use the new V3 mode, then all the CAv3 does is to send a throttle signal,
it does not send or provide any limiting Function to the controller, all it does is output a voltage INSTEAD of the throttle.

Throttle will be connected to the CA, CA connects to the controller.

If there are no limit flags appearing on the CA screen it is because no limiting parameters have been set or are being reached.



If you have the CA Setup and upgrade software tool and programming cable, first go back and find the download page, check you have the latest drivers / firmware. Even download a fresh copy of the firmware, just in case yours is corrupt.

Re flash the CA and start totally fresh.

For all initial setup all you should have connected to the controller is battery, motor and CA. No 3speed switch, no brake, no throttle..nothign else, just those three items.

• All PC utilities, drivers, and firmware downloads are available on the Grin Tech V3 page here (the authoritative source).
  The link to this page in the OP of this thread is outdated and should be repaired.
  
• Alternate links to the same material is available from the Unofficial Guide Download page (linked in the first line of the OP of this thread).
  You have to scroll down quite a way in the index of posts to get to the firmware section ("hidden in plain sight" comes to mind... ).

Print out the UUG and carry it with you , keep a copy by the bedside, buy the toilet, I printed mine on A4, two sheets per side, duplex printing then stapled it in to a book.

read it, read it and read it again, then go over it with a marker pen and highlight the bits you need for initial setup, and score lout the bits that are irrelevant to you ..stuff you are not using , and read the relevant bits again.

When you have got the CA back up and running in totally fresh mode, before you change anything ..SAVE that file with the software tool..so you can always go back and start again.

Once you make setting change, save it again, before makin further setting changes. that way if you balls something up with a setting change, you can go back on e stage and not have to start again.

 

[pendragon8000]

thanks Grin / ebikes.ca / Justin
As usual you guys looked after me, and I now have my CA V3 and programming cord all sorted.

I'm loving the features of prelim 6. I really like the turn on in mode x setting.

 

[matsh]

Hi guys. Just wired up my v3 to my bike with kelly controller.
Have one problem. The green wire at the dp plug is the throttle out yes? This cable show around 1.1 v constant. Have tried different settings but no luck. Ca show corect information at the display. When i look at the throttle in and out voltage. Both goes up and down to my throttle.but no different volt at the green cable. Just stabil at 1.1v why is that?

 

[matsh]

tested som more, but no Luck..
pin 6 green from ca just stays at 1v -1.1v if i connect it to kelly Controller it goes Down to 0.4v
display on ca adjusted to 0 to 4.95v as i turn my throttle the input and output on ca display is corect. but the voltage on the green cable on dp plug is stand by at 1v when disconected and 0.4v when Connected to my Controller.'

if i turn on my Controller the Wheel just starts to spin because of the voltage input on throttle cable.

 

[NeilP]

Best thing I could suggest to start with would be to open the CA and double check the wiring at the other end of the green wire..make sure it is connected to the correct pad on the CA.

otherwise just have to wait sme one with a better knowledge comes along

 

[matsh]

Yepp, did open it.. and then i understood what i did wrong....
Mine is ready for hc shunt wiring. So it dont have the dp conector i was looking for.. i used the green wire og the 5 pin conector...
Now it work like a champ.
So nice with 3 easy modes to switch thru. 3kw 6kw and full power 12kw it controll the max settings limit great with most of settings on default.

 

[mrbill]

Hi Folks:

I'm planning to power my CAV3 from an external source, a Meanwell NSD05-48S15 DC/DC converter that I will try to fit inside the CAV3 case.

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/260/NSD05-S-spec-53378.pdf

I've got a bunch of accessories hanging off my CAV3 that are ok up to 42 volts supply, but if I go to higher voltage the un-fused regulator will be overloaded. I've figured the wiring will be cleaner if I power the CAV3 off this 15v supply, and then I can run the main voltage as high as 72 volts (60v nominal) and keep the internal regulator running coolly. I am not using the pass-through power cable that connects to a coaxial barrel connector.

Does anyone see a problem with this plan?

Thanks.

 

[teklektik]

Nope - good plan. Section "5.8 Powering the CA / High Voltage Vehicle Support" of the Guide discusses this setup and also recommends a settings strategy to ensure that data is saved properly on shutdown.

No personal experience with that particular supply, though....

• It looks like it will do the job nicely with a DC input voltage spec right in the target Vbatt range - unlike the usual trick of using an AC mains adapter running at lower DC input voltage.
  
• I'm not too sure about physically squeezing it into the case - but that's going to be pretty black and white when you get it in hand.
  
• The only other consideration is waste heat from regulation, but since it's a switcher there should be little and you should be good. You are planning to take over much of the voltage drop normally accomplished with linear regulation by the CA so this looks good with reduced dissipation from the CA proper. Justin suggested in earlier conversations that there was likely some thermal dissipation capacity in the case for this sort of thing but that it actually had not been rigorously tested. We do know that Kepler was successful using a small dropping resistor in the case to get a little regulation headroom. His power dissipation was very modest but I'm thinking your supply will be even lower - Go for it.

Good find on the part...