Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

[teklektik]

Thought I'd write a quick post on the off chance others had the same question as I did.

I have a cell_man mac and 30 amp controller and I was wondering if the cruise control would still work properly when the CA is used with throttle mapping/limitting.

Turns out it does for the most part as does the three speed switch wrt the controller functionality. One slight issue is that using the throttle to disconnect the cruise is now unreliable so either the cruise button or e-brakes (wired directly to the controller) are needed.

Thanks for the post.

Looking ahead a bit:

• Justin has proposed a CA-to-controller ebrake-pass-thru solution in this post in the context of providing regen support. However, it seems this should be equally effective in providing controller cruise control disengagement on ebraking.
  
• Justin also has described a cruise control feature for the CA in this post that could serve as a substitute for controller cruise. Software-only means it may appear sooner than the hardware do-hicky above...

Now off to play with some reed switches for ebrakes ...

A good strategy for the near term... :wink:

 

[howbeit]

Totally a newbie question, but what is the benefit of using the CA to handle the throttle than the controller?

How does it change the way the bike handles?

 

[teklektik]

Totally a newbie question, but what is the benefit of using the CA to handle the throttle than the controller?

How does it change the way the bike handles?

Please review this post for an explanation of alternate throttle modes which give more refined and predicable throttle control.

This post describes setting up throttle ramping in the section 2 (Installation) which can have a beneficial effect for gear motors or powerful DD motors. Section 3 of the post (Advanced Setup and Features) gives an overview of other nifty features.

 

[mrbill]

I'm setting up my CA-V3 and am having difficulty parsing some of the data fields on the screens. Is there documentation that explains what information is being displayed for each screen?

Thanks.

 

[amberwolf]

Is this helpful?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&start=225#p571345
or this (though some of the screens have changed some)
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=553309#p553309

 

[mrbill]

Not quite.

The first link gives the comprehensive setup instructions and advice. The second link gives a description of the 1st display screen and some of the setup screens. I have not been able to find a comprehensive document for all of the display screens, the screens one toggles between when the CA is in use.

 

[Opus the Poet]

OK, I'm about to drop some coin on a 9C hub motor kit and a CAV3 with Thun.

While I'm waiting to get the coin to drop let me ask about a logical installation protocol.

Mount hub motor, CA, Thun, and controller to the bike as I want them permanently but not connected yet. Connect controller to motor and throttle and make sure controller and motor work with throttle connected directly to the controller.

Connect the CA between the controller and the motor and make sure the CA works and measures properly.

Connect throttle to CA and set as desired speed controller (throttle as a percentage of maximum speed limit) and verify that part works.

Connect Thun and calibrate and verify that the setting works (I'm going to go with the minimum torque to get power after I reverse engineer the torque needed to get the cruise power I want) and that reducing the throttle gets me the speed I want only when I'm putting in the required torque.

Have I missed anything? Or did I get anything out of order?

 

[teklektik]

The first link gives the comprehensive setup instructions and advice. The second link gives a description of the 1st display screen and some of the setup screens. I have not been able to find a comprehensive document for all of the display screens, the screens one toggles between when the CA is in use.

You are correct. There is not yet such a document. These were in a state of change earlier, but now seem to have settled down.

The screens are arranged so that they have related information for a particular purpose or from a particular source and so some of the same info is duplicated so it is available without flipping screens. Here's a quick rundown of screens going right from Main:

<EDIT - info relocated to Setup Notes>

A good question - This info has been added to the Setup Notes in a new Console Operation section. Hope this helps

 

[mrbill]

This info has been added to the Setup Notes in a new Console Operation section. Hope this helps

Yes, it does. Thanks. And, thanks for managing the copious bibliography of documentation for this release.

 

[teklektik]

Totally a newbie question, but what is the benefit of using the CA to handle the throttle than the controller?

How does it change the way the bike handles?

Please review this post for ...
This post describes ...

These were a good questions but the answers were perhaps less than succinct. An Overview section has been added to the Setup Notes to outline the product a bit for folks who are unaquainted with the V3 -- hopefully short and sweet

 

[howbeit]

Thanks! Once I get my bike up and running (and have conquered some of the learning curve), I'll be happy to help out with the wiki.

 

[teklektik]

Once I get my bike up and running...

Best of luck with your build - maybe a new build thread!

 

[Golden Motor Canada]

Justin-


We've also got a V3 CA shunt in production now that passes through the throttle and speedo signals from the 6-pin connector. This is especially handy for those doing RC controller interfaces to the CA, since you can repurpose the yellow speedo wire as a 5V line and the green wire becomes the servo pulse signal, and also for using a CA3 on an ebike controller without a Cycle Analyst plug on it.


-Justin

I am looking at this quote and I have a v3 shunt here beside me. The 3 small wires coming from the shunt are black, yellow, green. I see from a picture the green is for throttle out to the controller. Do i run throttle in to the yellow and the black is a ground? I apologize if this was dicussed in this thread elsewhere but its getting quite huge and difficult to work through.

Whoops just found the "Cycle Analyst V3 - Unofficial Setup Notes" It seems My assumption on the wires colours was correct.

 

[teklektik]

I am looking at this quote and I have a v3 shunt here beside me. The 3 small wires coming from the shunt are black, yellow, green. I see from a picture the green is for throttle out to the controller. Do i run throttle in to the yellow and the black is a ground? I apologize if this was dicussed in this thread elsewhere but its getting quite huge and difficult to work through.

Are you hooking up an RC controller or a hub motor controller?

 

[Golden Motor Canada]

Thanks for the prompt reply and nice job on the setup notes!

I am hooking it up to A Magic Pie 3 Internal controller.

Gary

 

[teklektik]

I am looking at this quote and I have a v3 shunt here beside me. The 3 small wires coming from the shunt are black, yellow, green. I see from a picture the green is for throttle out to the controller. Do i run throttle in to the yellow and the black is a ground? I apologize if this was dicussed in this thread elsewhere but its getting quite huge and difficult to work through.

Whoops just found the "Cycle Analyst V3 - Unofficial Setup Notes" It seems My assumption on the wires colours was correct.

Thanks for the prompt reply and nice job on the setup notes!
I am hooking it up to A Magic Pie 3 Internal controller.

Thanks - hope they help. Just to make sure - (you lost me a bit there ) - you should be using the green for Throttle OUT to the controller - yellow is for Speed In (optional if you use a wheel pickup). Black is Gnd but is not connected to minimize ground loop effects (you will get Gnd thru the shunt connection).

 

[Golden Motor Canada]

Thanks - hope they help. Just to make sure - (you lost me a bit there ) - you should be using the green for Throttle OUT to the controller - yellow is for Speed In (optional if you use a wheel pickup). Black is Gnd but is not connected to minimize ground loop effects (you will get Gnd thru the shunt connection).

I intend to first use the CA3 to limit the throttle, Then in the near future use the THUN sensor. Then hopefully be able to have three options with some sort of quick switch. I would like to switch between these options on "the fly" rather then stop to adjust the CA.

1 - No limitations
2 - Throttle limitations with CA
3 - THUN sensor

Gary

 

[teklektik]

I intend to first use the CA3 to limit the throttle, Then in the near future use the THUN sensor. Then hopefully be able to have three options with some sort of quick switch. I would like to switch between these options on "the fly" rather then stop to adjust the CA.

1 - No limitations
2 - Throttle limitations with CA
3 - THUN sensor

I think your layout is also being considered by others - seems like a nice flexible set up using the mode presets. Justin has indicated that AUX Pot preset selection switch support is coming. The required external switch should be pretty easy to fabricate. This should support the on-the-fly aspect you desire - meanwhile you can use the button 'hot swap' feature to change modes.

 

[mrbill]

I haven't played with cruise control yet but on the agenda is to do the same style of "auto-cruise" that exists on some motor controllers. So if you hold the throttle steady for a fixed amount of time, then you can release the throttle and the CA would preserve that input until you either engaged the ebrakes or touched the throttle again. In that way if you had the CA setup as speed throttle, you would have proper cruise control, if you had it setup as a pass-thru throttle, you would have voltage cruise control, and if you had it setup as a current throttle you would have a power cruise control.

In the same spirit as offering support for the "three-speed" switch (through the "aux pot" connection) that is popular on some Infineon and Crystalyte controllers, have you considered adding support for the external hardware cruise control that is supported on some of these same controllers? An advantage of the external cruise control is the ability to set the cruise and then adjust it up or down, similar* to that of the cruise control on an automobile. With the "auto-cruise" adjustment of cruise speed/voltage/current/power must be done by breaking the cruise lock, then resetting it by holding the throttle steady for another 8 seconds.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/cruisecontrol.jpg/

*This particular cruise control is digital in that it increments and decrements cruise setting in discrete increments, one increment per click of the "+" or "-" button.

 

[izeman]

Could someone please tell me how to connect the 10k thermistor? I think this should be 5V and sense wire to the two pins of the thermistor. But I want to be sure. Could I even connect more than one thermistor? I don't want to average the temp, but have one in the motor and one in the controller.
Thanks

 

[amberwolf]

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_CAV3.php
http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain/CA3_Connectors.gif
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&start=225#p571345
Only one sensor at a time on the NTC thermistor plug unless you use a manual switch between them, AFAIK.

You could use a thermistor in a voltage divider on the Auxiliary Pot input, and use that for limiting things, too, I guess.

 

[teklektik]

Could someone please tell me how to connect the 10k thermistor? I think this should be 5V and sense wire to the two pins of the thermistor.

Connect the thermistor across the two pins of the thermistor connector as shown on the Grin Tech V3 page. These are as noted - gnd (black) and sense (yellow). If you are doing custom wiring, use the two thermistor pads on the CA PCB (NTC and G).

hmmm - another answer while typing, but here you go anyway...

 

[k.ewin]

I do have an enhancement request for the "PAS Mode" setting in case of having both, a throttle and a PAS sensor connected:

Currently if "RPM mode" is selected, this would mean, that the bike is EITHER controlled by pedalling OR by engaging the throttle. I would like to have a throttle controlled bike that is only moving when pedaling AND the throttle is engaged. This would be the only way of having a throttle controlled bike that complies to European legislation.

The new PAS mode could be called something like "Throttle mode": If the CA detects that you are pedaling it will drive the controller with a throttle output according to the user throttle input taking "Cntrl mode" and other limits into account.

Another interesting setup that could be done with such a "Throttle mode" is having two limiters in parallel: One poti is connected as a throttle input and the "Cntrl mode" is set to "Speed". Another poti is connected to the aux input and "Aux Funct" is set to "Power lim". So when pedaling the bike would accelerate to a limit that could be controlled by both, a power limiting poti and a speed limiting poti in parallel.

 

[lollandster]

I do have an enhancement request for the "PAS Mode" setting in case of having both, a throttle and a PAS sensor connected:

Currently if "RPM mode" is selected, this would mean, that the bike is EITHER controlled by pedalling OR by engaging the throttle. I would like to have a throttle controlled bike that is only moving when pedaling AND the throttle is engaged. This would be the only way of having a throttle controlled bike that complies to European legislation.

The new PAS mode could be called something like "Throttle mode": If the CA detects that you are pedaling it will drive the controller with a throttle output according to the user throttle input taking "Cntrl mode" and other limits into account.

Another interesting setup that could be done with such a "Throttle mode" is having two limiters in parallel: One poti is connected as a throttle input and the "Cntrl mode" is set to "Speed". Another poti is connected to the aux input and "Aux Funct" is set to "Power lim". So when pedaling the bike would accelerate to a limit that could be controlled by both, a power limiting poti and a speed limiting poti in parallel.

+1
European laws don't allow "throttle only" use so an option for selecting "throttle input only with PAS" and/or "Ignore throttle input" would be very useful. Preferably this would also be dependent on the mode select so you can have a legal mode and a off-road mode also for Europeans (I believe Americans can have a off-road/legal mode with the current firmware because they only need to limit speed and power to make it legal).

 

[rscamp]

A quick video run-thru of the b21 menu of the V3 CA FWIW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK8czwCKzNM

This is a prelim R/C setup of the CA3-DPS type that happens to have 2 setup presets and 3 magnets on the wheel for the speedo...