Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

[Iambuilderman]

It is a mode for tecnical terrain where the output relies on the torque input from the BB torque sensor, and not torque and rpm combined.

Yes, actually more to the point I'm strongly considering in the next update that we just drop the watts/Hwatt scaling factor and have it instead be Watts/Nm. [...]

Has there been any progress in the implementation of being able to choose a torque multiplier instead of a power multiplier for pas using a torque sensor?

And a related question for @justin: can you implement a customizable timeout for the pas support in ca v3? Because I think the current implementation has a far too long timeout leading to dangerous spontaneous power surges on a high power ebike. Let me try to explain:

I have built a powerful direct drive ebike with sabvoton controller and ca v3 + sempu v4 torque sensor. It can output enough torque to do a power wheelie (150 amp Max). To tame the beast, I have set throttle ramp rather slow (5v/s), pas ramp even slower (1v/s) and basically disabled fast ramp (0 amp). I have ramp down really fast (15v/s). While biking, the bike is very well behaved, with controllable throttle and torque based pas. However, when I stop pedaling for a moment, e.g. 0,5s (?) for example for a corner, and then continue pedaling, the cycle analyst seems to still think I was pedaling and spikes the throttle to the Max to continue its previous power level. This leads to very dangerous situations, where I have already had a hard crash with lots of damage because the bike suddenly did an unintentional wheelie while trying to cross a street.

You could argue that the bike is too powerful but that is not the point here. I also have a modded kt controller that I put custom firmware on myself. In that firmware, you can enter a pas timeout to prevent pas engaging unintentionally.

Maybe my settings in the ca v3 are not optimal, but I think they are rather soft and safe actually. That is, when I am pedaling, not when I pause for a moment. I use 4 pole torque averaging but for the power surges it does not help to change this to 2 or 12. I have pas start at 0,15s and stop at 0,10s between poles. Changing this setting does not seem to help either; it just influences the required cadence but once you are going there seems to be another invisible pas timeout waiting for the next pole?

I have the sabvoton at minimum response time (0,010s ramp up and down) to make sure that there are no oscillations between the ca control logic and the sabvoton logic.

So it boils down to the question: is there any way to deny the ca v3 to create power surges when you briefly interrupt your pedaling motion? I think torque mode + a customizable pas timeout (“listening time”) would help. Also, I think a global setting for Max voltage ramp rate for pas, even when in power based assist mode, is desperately needed.

Please let me know if I am doing something wrong and there is a simple solution to prevent these ca v3 pas related voltage/power surges! Because right now pas is just downright dangerous...

 

[Ingo]

hi all,

i noticed some bugs at the new firmware 3.15b1

the present name does not match with the name in software. (showes different between CA and software) e.g. pdl ast = legal
some bugs in calculated %Regen. show me 987% (should be about 1%)

someone can help me here?

regards ingo

 

[HrKlev]

What is the news in this 3.15b version? I cant find release notes anywhere.

 

[Limbs]

It is a mode for tecnical terrain where the output relies on the torque input from the BB torque sensor, and not torque and rpm combined.

Yes, actually more to the point I'm strongly considering in the next update that we just drop the watts/Hwatt scaling factor and have it instead be Watts/Nm. [...]

Has there been any progress in the implementation of being able to choose a torque multiplier instead of a power multiplier for pas using a torque sensor?

And a related question for @justin: can you implement a customizable timeout for the pas support in ca v3? Because I think the current implementation has a far too long timeout leading to dangerous spontaneous power surges on a high power ebike. Let me try to explain:

I have built a powerful direct drive ebike with sabvoton controller and ca v3 + sempu v4 torque sensor. It can output enough torque to do a power wheelie (150 amp Max). To tame the beast, I have set throttle ramp rather slow (5v/s), pas ramp even slower (1v/s) and basically disabled fast ramp (0 amp). I have ramp down really fast (15v/s). While biking, the bike is very well behaved, with controllable throttle and torque based pas. However, when I stop pedaling for a moment, e.g. 0,5s (?) for example for a corner, and then continue pedaling, the cycle analyst seems to still think I was pedaling and spikes the throttle to the Max to continue its previous power level. This leads to very dangerous situations, where I have already had a hard crash with lots of damage because the bike suddenly did an unintentional wheelie while trying to cross a street.

You could argue that the bike is too powerful but that is not the point here. I also have a modded kt controller that I put custom firmware on myself. In that firmware, you can enter a pas timeout to prevent pas engaging unintentionally.

Maybe my settings in the ca v3 are not optimal, but I think they are rather soft and safe actually. That is, when I am pedaling, not when I pause for a moment. I use 4 pole torque averaging but for the power surges it does not help to change this to 2 or 12. I have pas start at 0,15s and stop at 0,10s between poles. Changing this setting does not seem to help either; it just influences the required cadence but once you are going there seems to be another invisible pas timeout waiting for the next pole?

I have the sabvoton at minimum response time (0,010s ramp up and down) to make sure that there are no oscillations between the ca control logic and the sabvoton logic.

So it boils down to the question: is there any way to deny the ca v3 to create power surges when you briefly interrupt your pedaling motion? I think torque mode + a customizable pas timeout (“listening time”) would help. Also, I think a global setting for Max voltage ramp rate for pas, even when in power based assist mode, is desperately needed.

Please let me know if I am doing something wrong and there is a simple solution to prevent these ca v3 pas related voltage/power surges! Because right now pas is just downright dangerous...

I had similar, though less powerful, surges on initial PAS pull-away & PAS re-engagement on my recently built twin motor/CA V3/PhaseRunner project, regardless of HWatts multiplier. I tamed it by reducing PAS ramp-up to 2v per second and increasing WGain to a setting well in excess of the “recommended range” of 8-25 @ 90.

 

[Ingo]

What is the news in this 3.15b version? I cant find release notes anywhere.

Section titles show the feature/problem tracking number and description.


Release: 3.15b1 2021-03-18

NOTE: This firmware is instrumented to detect illegal writes to any setting
in EEPROM. The CA intercepts these errors before they occur, ceases
normal operation, and displays a special 'watchdog' screen. If this
occurs, please record all screen information either by manual
transcription or (phone) photo, press the right console button, and
repeat until all screens have been recorded and the CA reboots.

Please forward the recorded information with a description of the
failure circumstances to Grin at: info@ebikes.ca. Please include a
setup file if possible. Thank you!


(1) 6663 - Temp Setup Preview screen does not show live temperature

The Temp Setup Preview screen updates voltage in real time, but the oC
reading stays constant. This is inconsistent behavior and somewhat confusing
for initial temp setup.

The temp display field is revised to show the live instantaneous temperature
in deg C.

This is an internal change with no consequences for CA setup or existing
setup files.


(2) 7189 - Setup Utility 'Miscellaneous Menu Mask' has incorrect options

There are two issues with the Setup Utility 'Miscellaneous Menu Mask'
pulldown menu:

1. The mask bit option for 'Misc->Vshutdown' is missing.
2. The mask bit option for 'Misc->Defaults' erroneously appears in the
pulldown menu for Setup Utility 'Calibration Menu Mask' instead of
'Miscellaneous Menu Mask'.

These issues cause several incorrect masking behaviors in CA Console Setup.

Data defining/controlling Setup Utility operation has been revised to
correct these issues. There is no change to CA FW code proper.

This is a data file change to Setup Utility with no consequences for CA
setup or existing setup files.


(3) 7161 - Create two new NTC options for thermistors with Beta = 3450

Bafang motors and the new Grin 'standard' thermistor for geared hubs do not
show accurate temperatures with the classic 'NTC10K beta=3900' sensor option.
Two new options are required to support geared motors with a 10K NTC and 3450
Beta constant.

'NTC10K beta=3450' is for motors that do not have any additional pull-up
resistor on the thermistor. The Shengyi geared motors from Grin fall in this
class.

'NTC10K Bafang' is for motors with a B3450 thermistor which also have a 10K
pullup resistor to 5V inside the motor itself. Bafang motors often have their
thermistor wired this way.

The new NTC options change the temp sensor drop-down selector menu, and users
will need to reselect their temperature sensor type when upgrading to this
firmware.


(4) 7345 - Measured speed shows glitches

The calculated speed shows transient erroneous values for certain motors
under particular circumstance (e.g. GMAC drawing over 1200W).

Processing for the SPEED signal has been modified to ignore aspects of the
signal that were previously being erroneously included in Calculations.

This is an internal change with no consequences for CA setup or existing
setup files.


(5) 7365 - Add 'ERider' Torque Sensor option and remove 'Cycle Stoker' option

This versions adds the new 'ERider' torque sensing BB as a predefined torque
device option for setting PASD->SensrType. This new setting automatically
applies these other PAS device settings for proper operation of this BB:

PASD->PASPoles = 18 poles
PAS ->AsstAvg = 18 poles
PASD->SignlType = 1-wire
PASD->DirPlrty = Forward
PASD->TrqScale = 70 Nm/V
PASD->ZeroTorq = 1.5V

The existing predefined 'Cycle Stoker' option has been removed. Cycle
Analysts currently using the 'Cycle Stoker' option can be updated in
either of two ways:

a) Prior to firmware update, reconfigure PASD->SensrType = 'Custom TRQ'.
Other existing settings for the Cycle Stoker will be retained when the
firmware is updated under the guise of the user-defined custom type.

b) Update the firmware first. The preexisting 'Cycle Stoker' device will
then appear as an 'ERider' device and so will operation improperly.
This can be remedied by manually reconfiguring the following settings:

PASD->SensrType = 'Custom TRQ'
PASD->PASPoles = 12 poles
PASD->SignlType = 2-wire
PASD->DirPlrty = Forward
PASD->TrqScale = 50 Nm/V
PASD->ZeroTorq = 1.2V (may need subsequent adjustment)
PAS ->AsstAvg = 12 poles

This is an internal change with no consequences for existing CA configuration
or setup files except for those configurations presently using the 'Cycle
Stoker' device type as noted above.


(6) 7427 - Rounding error in AuxA/AuxD scaling calculations

Scaling operations for Aux limit functions can operate improperly because of
a rounding error. This can cause slightly jumpy behavior where smooth
scaling should have occurred.

The misbehaving math routine has been corrected.

This is an internal change with no consequences for existing CA configuration
or setup files.


(7) 7909 - Increased Max PAS Poles to 36 with support for ERider_T9

The maximum number of PAS poles has been increased from 32 to 36 in order to
support the latest ERider-T9 torque sensors which have 36 poles. A new torque
sensor preset (ERider_T9) was added to support these bottom bracket devices
with the following preset values:

PASD->PASPoles = 36 poles
PAS ->AsstAvg = 36 poles
PASD->SignlType = 1-wire
PASD->DirPlrty = Forward
PASD->TrqScale = 70 Nm/V
PASD->ZeroTorq = 1.5V

This change does not affect existing CA configurations or setup files.

 

[HrKlev]

Thanks!

Support for 36 poles, wohoo!

 

[Ingo]

yes accept the bugs its a good firmware

 

[lightrush]

Erider T9 with 36 poles? Please elaborate. I acquired a 36-pole T13 from AliExpress which I haven't tried yet. Is this new T9 the same as the current T9 but with more poles? Is it actually "T13", different, when can I buy it?

 

[Ingo]

Erider T9 with 36 poles? Please elaborate. I acquired a 36-pole T13 from AliExpress which I haven't tried yet. Is this new T9 the same as the current T9 but with more poles? Is it actually "T13", different, when can I buy it?

there you must ask grintech

 

[rowbiker]

Erider T9 with 36 poles? Please elaborate. I acquired a 36-pole T13 from AliExpress which I haven't tried yet. Is this new T9 the same as the current T9 but with more poles? Is it actually "T13", different, when can I buy it?

The T13 also has 36 poles, like the T9. I believe the difference between the two is that the T9 has the signal wires exiting at the end of the BB, so you don't need to drill an exit hole in your bike's BB shell. Check the manufacturer's site for details: https://www.erider.com/#/sensors

 

[Ingo]

hi all,

there is a new version 3-15b3 out with the fixed issues i have .

 

[cnrd]

@justin_le

Testing 3.15b3 my setup still shows the old behavior for the below bug, with no changes what so ever.

(4) 7345 - Measured speed shows glitches

The calculated speed shows transient erroneous values for certain motors
under particular circumstance (e.g. GMAC drawing over 1200W).

Processing for the SPEED signal has been modified to ignore aspects of the
signal that were previously being erroneously included in Calculations.

This is an internal change with no consequences for CA setup or existing
setup files.

 

[izy]

@justin_le

hey justin got CA3 recently and the such I love the features.
I was was wondering if its plausible to have the Digital Aux "Number of Levels" Setting to be configured across presets.

As I have my CA set to speed toggling via Aux but my other profiles have different limits that requires a higher amount of levels changing to these levels currently ruins the main profiles levels.

Would be a nice convenience

 

[Oli.Hall]

Hi @justin_le and @ingo

I was emailing with Justin last year about an issue on newer Bromptons that means the MF switch must be fitted upside down, and I would like to request an option in the firmware to reverse the operation direction of the MF up/down switch levels please.

Newer Brompton bikes, 2018- have integrated gear shifters fitted under the brakes. This new style of gear shifter prevents the MF switch from being installed the correct way up as the location of the cable exit fouls the operation of the gear shift, and it is not possible to fit the MF switch anywhere else on the bar due to the very small clearance between the bar and the brake lever.



The only way to fit the MF switch is upside down with the power button pointing towards you. This means that the up and down arrows are pointing the wrong way.

Please can you make an option in the firmware to reverse the direction of the MF switch up/down arrows for applications where the switch needs to be fitted upside down?

Kind regards,
Oli.

 

[P3yot3]

Hi all, I'm having issues downloading the latest firmware via CASetupUtility on both my PC & Laptop so was wondering if there's a problem with the ebikes.ca website? When ever I try to get the latest firmware I get this message:



Is it possible to download the firmware directly? I've been unable to find links for them anywhere.

Thanks & regards.

Edit: I just emailed Grin to see what the issue is & asked for a link to download the firmwares manually for the time being.

Edit1: If I try to go to ebikes.ca/downloads/ I get this error:

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access this resource.

So it looks like their server as locked everything out for some reason, even it's own CASetupUtility.

I'd really appreciate a link....someone?

 

[P3yot3]

Or maybe I'm the only person in the world who's CASetupUtility can't connect to ebikes.ca firmware update website.....?

I've tried: disable firewall, re-downloading CASetup, running as admin, running on several computers, disconnecting & reconnecting cable, rebooting & powercycling - still can't download new firmware. It can read my CA just fine, it just can't connect to ebikes.ca firmware database.

Anyone?.....

 

[mrbill]

Or maybe I'm the only person in the world who's CASetupUtility can't connect to ebikes.ca firmware update website.....?

I've tried: disable firewall, re-downloading CASetup, running as admin, running on several computers, disconnecting & reconnecting cable, rebooting & powercycling - still can't download new firmware. It can read my CA just fine, it just can't connect to ebikes.ca firmware database.

Anyone?.....

I just did a quick check and was able to download two beta firmwares from ebikes.ca. So, I would say that you probably still have a network glitch somewhere in your system and that it is NOT an ebikes.ca being offline problem.

 

[P3yot3]

Hi mrbill,

Others have reported the same problem & as I said, I'd tried multiple computers on different networks - but it started working about 2 hours ago though, so it's all good again. Thanks.

 

[mrbill]

Others have reported the same problem & as I said, I'd tried multiple computers on different networks - but it started working about 2 hours ago though, so it's all good again. Thanks.

Hi P3yot3:

Glad to hear you're up and running and that Grin has their firmware repository accessible again.

 

[P3yot3]

Does anyone know when the ERider T9 settings will be merged into the release build? If I use the beta firmware I lose the solar option, so am unable to use my solar & unable to use the PAS on the release version.

Regards.

 

[Iambuilderman]

It is a mode for tecnical terrain where the output relies on the torque input from the BB torque sensor, and not torque and rpm combined.

Yes, actually more to the point I'm strongly considering in the next update that we just drop the watts/Hwatt scaling factor and have it instead be Watts/Nm. [...]

Has there been any progress in the implementation of being able to choose a torque multiplier instead of a power multiplier for pas using a torque sensor?

And a related question for @justin: can you implement a customizable timeout for the pas support in ca v3? Because I think the current implementation has a far too long timeout leading to dangerous spontaneous power surges on a high power ebike. Let me try to explain:
...

I had similar, though less powerful, surges on initial PAS pull-away & PAS re-engagement on my recently built twin motor/CA V3/PhaseRunner project, regardless of HWatts multiplier. I tamed it by reducing PAS ramp-up to 2v per second and increasing WGain to a setting well in excess of the “recommended range” of 8-25 @ 90.

Hi Limbs,

Just saw your response now. I will try that combination as well. With respect to the ‘customizable pas timeout’ that I was asking for:

I found that it is best to always use 1 pulse averaging, because the timer seems to multiply with the number of pulses you select. So the pas support times out quicker when you average over 1 pulse (I use a 48 pulse Sempu T4 torque sensor), which results in a bit safer performance.

Still, I think the main problem is the feedback loop that the CA uses to set the equivalent throttle level based on the calculated human watts. If Justin could provide us with a direct ‘pass through’ option for the torque sensor value to drive the controller’s throttle signal, that would eliminate all dynamic response from the current feedback loop control system (overshoot etc). Of course, you would want to implement some safety/sophistication features such as a minimum cadence to enable direct torque pass through and preferably also some control over minimum voltage and linear scaling factors (steepness of the response).

As a non-expert, this seems to be easy to implement to me? Just an extra option for pass through in the torque menu? Would be highly appreciated!!

Ps: of course I could connect the sempu directly to the throttle signal right now already, but I also need/want my throttle to pull out of a dangerous situation quickly.

 

[Iambuilderman]

In addition to my previous post: when I think about it, I think the open source custom flexible firmware for KT controllers that was developed by Casainho, stancecoke and Xnyle actually does this perfectly:

- you can use direct torque pass through
- torque support starts after a minimum cadence ( effectively 3 km/h or so).
- you can set a linear scaling factor for the torque support.
- you can customize the voltage range of the torque sensor (min voltAge and max voltage)
- you can customize the pas timeout (choose short time to make it safer)

So if someone is willing to implement this option, you could take a look at the interface of that custom firmware, see screenshot below.

 

[ramstadt]

I have a Sempu torque sensor which does 48 pulses per revolution. Any chance that we could get the maximum pulses per revolution increased?

 

[scrambler]

If I turn the pedal by hand (motor is still on the bench) I expect the motor to engage because it should see a cadence, right?
Or does the motor only engage when it sees cadence and gets a signal from the torque sensor?
To test the latter I have to mount the motor on a bike.

If done right it should need both as this eliminates false (and dangerous) activation of the motor when someone is not actually on the bike.

 

[ramstadt]

If I turn the pedal by hand (motor is still on the bench) I expect the motor to engage because it should see a cadence, right?
Or does the motor only engage when it sees cadence and gets a signal from the torque sensor?

My experience with CA3 is that you need both cadence and torque before it engages the motor.