Cycle Satiator - help me please!!

[Montague P]

Hey guys Noooob question here.

I have a HPC Elite 52V NMC 13Ah 14s 65a max current battery. I have also purchase a cycle satiator as the charger it comes with is sooo loud that the people at work complain of the noise.

I can’t get the satiator to charge the battery!
I have created a custom profile
Selected NiCd /NiHM
I select Nominal V:52.0v – it then changes to 48v
Bulk current: 6.0amp
Thermistor: no

Start A :1.5a
Bulk start V:20.4v
Delta V: 0.4V

Top up amps :0.5A
Top up time: 1h
Max V:52v

When I start the profile it says
Charge complete
3.0v 0.0a
Total, time 0.0
Total 0.00Ah

Any ideas? It’s the second profile I have setup and the result is the same
Help please!

 

[amberwolf]

I have a HPC Elite 52V NMC 13Ah 14s 65a max current battery.
<snip>

I can’t get the satiator to charge the battery!
I have created a custom profile
Selected NiCd /NiHM

You do not have a Nixx battery, you have a Lithium battery.

You can use the default profile #1 for "48V LiFe Fast Charge" if your pack can support 7A rate, or you can edit that profile (or make your own based on it) to whatever rate yours supports.

I use an EIG NMC 14s 20Ah pack, and that profile works on it, resulting in 4.11V/cell final charge. (IIRC, 4.15V is max for EIG NMC cells).

I also made a profile that copies most of that, but at 58.4V 8A. (it doesn't charge at 8A except when pretty low, due to wattage limits on the Satiator).

 

[Montague P]

Thanks for the heads up on the chemistry!

I tried selecting the 48v LiFe stnd charge
57.6v
4.0A
Also tried the 48v Lith
80% charge
52.6v 4.0A

When I start that Bat v too high 3.0v
Any other ideas? I thought it would be simple

 

[Montague P]

Have Also tried a a custom profile
Lith 52v 4a again it says batt v too high

Help!! Totally clueless nooob.

 

[kd8cgo]

How empty is the battery? What is its current resting voltage? A 14s NMC could be as high as 58.8V or so, if it's hot off your other charger without being drained. Even the built-in 48V LiFe Stnd profile is not enough to charge it in that case. You need to verify the resting voltage of the battery as it sits right now, and we can go from there. Do you have a multimeter or something else to check with? If you set your custom lithium profile to 52V in the "Full Volts" setting, that is not nearly enough to start charging with. If you wanted a 100% charge on a 14s NMC, it would be set to 58.8 - but the point of the Satiator in a lot of cases is to get more cycle life by undercharging (with lower voltage) your pack.

Make sure you understand lithium charging profiles too, there is a good section in the manual on it. The Satiator is an awesome tool, but requires a bit of know-how to use it to good effect.

 

[amberwolf]

Edit: before you do the voltage checks below, try just setting the default profile to the one I suggested, then unplug everything, including from teh wall, then plug Satiator into wall, then into pack, and it should just start charging automatically.

If it doesn't, list the exact results here, and do teh checks below.

When I start that Bat v too high 3.0v

That's a strange error.

It implies the Satiator is looking for a voltage of *less* than 3.0V for the battery's full state, which implies that either the profile you're using is set to that, or that there are some other possible problems (wiring or internal to Satiator or pack).

What is the actual battery voltage, measured with a multimeter, at the charge port, without anything attached to it?

Then, what is the voltage, measured with a multimeter, at the charge port, with the Satiator connected but not started?

Then again, with the Satiator started? (with or without an error)

Also, make sure the polarity of your battery connection to the Satiator is correct.

 

[Montague P]

Guys,

Just wanted to say a huge thank you to everyone that replied. In the end I had to buy a soldering iron and swap the red and black wires.

When I plugged it in and tried a charge it said bat to high 55v. So after reading kd8cgo post I tried the 48v LiFe send 57.6v 4a and it started charging..yay!

Now I can have a bit of a play with it to find out how much juice I use getting to work so I can try and keep it charged between 20% -80%. Also the slower the charge (lower amps) means the battery will last longer so the charger can really start paying dividends.

Thanks again everyone I could not of done this without you!

 

[neptronix]

I believe that your bulk start voltage is too low.

 

[Montague P]

Hey guys Quickie

I plugged my battery into the charger today after riding about 15 miles to work. Half done at about 28mph then hit the road and a tiny bit of throttle off the line but almost totally pedaling.

Got to work and plugged the charger. It said 50v then charged to 51v as I thought that was more than enough to get me home. Sadly the battery cut after about a mile. I had to pedal another 15miles to get home!!

Question

Satiator said last night my battery was charged to 55.6v

At work after the cycle 50v
Charged to 51v
Got home it was totally flat 47.8v
Surly the volt meter on the charger is wrong? Any idea how to calibrate it?

 

[kd8cgo]

You need to figure out your charge % vs. pack voltage. An easy way is the ebikes.ca Charge Simulator.

For your battery, you can assume the following voltage vs. what percent of the total capacity is left in the battery:

Cell V          Pack V          Percent          Available AH
-------------------------------------------------------------
4.20V          58.8V          100%          12.83 AH
4.04V          56.56V          90%          11.56 AH
3.97V          55.58V          80%          10.25 AH
.
.
3.64V          50.96V          37%          4.71 AH
3.57V          49.98V          25%          3.16 AH

You only had a ~37% charge when you left work. When you got home, you had what would amount to 4% capacity remaining if the pack was perfectly matched cells and totally balanced. It cut out because at least one cell group went too low to continue.

You used 80% - 25% = 55% of the pack capacity on your way to work, or about 7.05 AH. You need at least that 7 AH to make the same trip again. You had only 37%, or about 4.71 AH when you left work, so no dice.

Your pack is just big enough to use from 80% down to 20%, which is a nice safe battery range, on your one way commute - with a little extra headroom there since you only used it down to 25% on your way to work. You must be able to get a full 80% charge, at least up to 55.58V before you leave work for the day for this to all work out.

I see no reason to believe the voltage meter on the charger is wrong. 51V is not enough to get you very far, that's all.

edit: The fact that your battery cut out after a mile of what should have been 37% capacity, enough to do over half your trip, indicates that your cells are out of balance. You need to put it on either the factory charger, or the satiator set to 58.8V, and let your pack balance for a long time. Especially since you hit your low voltage cut off, this is important. You should leave it overnight, or for 24 hours+ if you can to get all the cell groups balanced up. This is really only possible by getting the battery to full 100% charge and letting it trickle and balance for a long time.

 

[neptronix]

Do you have some sort of voltage/capacity monitoring system on your bike? because i'd say you need one if you are so confused about things like this.

A cycle analyst or turnigy watt meter would do the best job.