Cyclone kit motor problem

[k-harvey]

Has anyone heard of this before -----have purchased exterior controlle 650w cyclone bike motor kit its suposed to be 24v controller
that we have just analised its problem as being the LVC turns motor off as the batteries drop in voltage once load is applied.
These same batteries (lifepo4) drive the 500w internal controller bike like they were new.
I have Yet to test to see if there is a voltage drop in new batteries (acid) It seems the LVC is set very high like 20v on these
(headway) controllers.
Voltage on new acid batteries don''t drop much with load.
Drove 500w int one (with LiFepo4) hard today to see if battery would fail & it did. I Think the BMS failed so thats the end of my
near 8 year old lifepo4 stil have another, will sure not do that to it. Perhaps i'll swap BMS's in the future but obviously they are near the end of their life. Actually I'm off Lifepo4 to much trouble , best is bigger watts & spare acid batteries.

 

[k-harvey]

Seems no-one can help with this --Its a 650w-1280 cyclone not 500w motor supposed to run on 24v , Br paco says motor problem send motor back (cost heaps of freight) But am sure its LVC(also local guys reckon so)set too high for my now getting old LiFePo4 24v packs. have bought Aliexpress 500w controller to fit making sparks etc but sure I won't get anywhere .
I think my best e bike was the homebuilt one no throttle just heavy switch to brushed 450w motor even welded on freewheel to crank.
Had real grunt for the big hill & simple for fixing. Fried eggs could have been cooked on the motor untill she died. But went for many years.

 

[bunya]

The LVC for my cyclone controller is in the ORO throttle, it has a small microcontroller inside that changes the lights from green to orange to red. Do you have access to a lab power supply, perhaps you could test the motor and controller over a range of voltages? my 48v kit disconnects at about 35 volts so it is largely useless for protecting 16s lifepo4. A few questions:
Do you have an ORO throttle?
Does the motor run with little to no load, and when it switches off does it go from green to orange to red, or straight to red?
What lead acid batteries are you using, can they discharge at 20-40 amps?

 

[k-harvey]

Thank you for answering Bunya ,
the ORO throttles I have are for the 500w int contoller motors with 6 wires to a 7 wire plug that went directly to motor , The one suplied is different & has full, half & empty on it with 2 plugs going to controller. If LVC was in throttle you'd think Br Paco would know.
The acid batteries (2 12v) not bran new but good do go without load for a time with good load eventualy stop. but the LiFePo4 ones stop with
even without load. I did test voltage forget what voltage was when motor stopped. ---would have to put it all together again to get that voltage.
At the moment i have a controller 24v 500w off Aliexpress that I'm trying to get it going with but I don't think I've got any chance of that .Hoping the LVC has lower voltage drop if any.
I have only used a voltmeter no ampmeter .
I'm sure if i bought new 24v acid it would go for much longer but what use is a bike that can only have new batteries.
The 500w int controller bike that goes with both liFePo4 batteries shows green then yellow but usually I'm thrashing it on Red
but releasing (down hillor the flat)sometimes thinking I might damage somethink.
Can a ORO one be connected to this?

 

[bunya]

I'm not sure how the internal controller model works, but I am certain the LVC is in the ORO throttle on the external model, it pulls down ebrake when voltage is low and this is what stops the motor from working. If you are running your lifepo4 pack down into the red you could be damaging the cells, what type of BMS are you using on the lifepo4 pack... If you search this forum you might stumble upon the diagram of the throttle, I've seen it here somewhere... buying another controller will solve your problems so long as your battery is good and you can get access to the hall sensors, NTC and phase wires.

When you say the batteries are good does that mean they hold charge etc. The cyclone kit could be drawing 20Amps maybe more (mine draws 45A) and most standard deep cycle lead acid batteries are not up to the task for this discharge rate. What model battery are you using... 12Ah etc.. some photos will help..

 

[k-harvey]

I don't know the type of make of battery 15ah when i bought them(have replace 1 BMS) . I have done a test using motor under load with brake on, with voltmeter to register the volts when motor cuts out on both 500 int cont. one ---- 18v for one battery & 18.8 & wouldnt cut out at all
For 650-1280w(24v) motor cuts out at 20v.In doing this I thought I'd ruined 500w one as it seemed to go only on about 6 volts --now i;ve stuffed my best bike i thought but after thinking perhaps only the throttle & trying another --thats what it was so that 500w one is still going good.--------Perhaps i should have tried changing throttles before but the plugs etc are totally different,
I have since talked to Edward Lyen & he has lowered the LVC on a controller that he is sending to me (cost though) One thing I'm pleased about is this new controller can handle 36v for perhapss my next battery purchase .
He didn't say LVC could be lowered by the throttle change but he'd perhaps ruin a sale if he did.
I have made up a few Packs with Headway screw together cells with BMS(cost more ) & sold or given to family but I've always kept the first old ones as for testing its best to have 2 bikes with batteries the same . when i get it all going will give results as sure been a problem for Br Paco not just myself .

 

[gwhy!1]

what current you are pulling when it cuts out? has it got hall sensors or is it sensorless. just thinking that you may have the wrong hall/phase combo.

 

[k-harvey]

i connect as per cyclone controller to motor as Br Paco instructions , he says its the motor & send it back but now have Ed Lyens controller
see what happens now. I don't use any amp meter volts are tecchnical enough for me. Defiitly the 650w would draw more current & if no load on motor at all they go ok. Its the LVC I'm sure.

 

[gwhy!1]

i connect as per cyclone controller to motor as Br Paco instructions , he says its the motor & send it back but now have Ed Lyens controller
see what happens now. I don't use any amp meter volts are tecchnical enough for me. Defiitly the 650w would draw more current & if no load on motor at all they go ok. Its the LVC I'm sure.

the wire combinations may be differtent on the lyen controller.

you should invest in a watt meter.. really easy to install and worth every penny for finding problems... they only cost around $20

 

[k-harvey]

thought i'd stuffed 500w int cont. bike with all the testing for the LVC (for 650w was 20v for 500w about 18)always had voltmeter.
but only stuffed the throttle . plenty of them . Received edward Lyen controller that he set LVC at 18v motor & bike now go beutifully/.
Prooving cyclone controller for 24v for 650w is only good for new battereis.Go 650w go to hell or be saved by edward Lyen