"Da bomb" cargo bike + Transmag 3kW / MAC 2kW / HS3548

[melodious]

Ya. The back end narrowing into the seat post is an odd feature. I wonder why they went with that design? You can't fabricate an aluminum (or steel) triangle shimmy with a curved recess to accept the tubing. Then drill a hole for the plate to bolt onto...

edit: Looking at the design logic frame again and it's not a tube where your plate will go. More like a "flat bar". Washers hopefully will do it. Good luck!

 

[ohzee]

It's as if the frame is really designed around that staton gearbox and nothing else. No other scenario will really work.

Yea I was looking at their web page and how it only advertises the bike for a ice motor drop in. Yet the guy is on here advertising his bike as well
when only a hub motor will work.. It looks like an awesome bike , but id just think you'd want to make some adjustments for both camps to increase
sales potential. then again what do I know.. enjoying following this thread at least.

 

[neptronix]

Right - it doesn't make sense at all to taper it like this. Panniers won't even sit right on the back end.
If this flaw was corrected, and the mounting bars were 100% straight, then this would be the most kick ass frame for our use. It would be stronger than the yuba mundo and capable of carrying some serious battery loads. With this frame, i am really not sure how to mount batteries and mounting the motor is still in the air.

It looks like design logic figured this out later on when they redesigned 'da trail'. I have tried to convince the designer to change things for our use.

 

[teklektik]

Right - it doesn't make sense at all to taper it like this. Panniers won't even sit right on the back end.

This thing was designed to be easy to fab - a one-trick IC pony.

The Mundo has its own bit of weirdness and solutions to mid-drive seem to have used the familiar subframe - like the Urban Commuter mid-drive assembly.

Looking for a tool-light solution, I'm wondering if you can salvage your Bomb efforts by trimming off the flat stock motor mounts so they are maybe 2" long, then twisting square to the centerline using a large crescent wrench. Drill these new mounting tabs and bolt up more rigid mounting struts cut from angle stock. Using washers and off the shelf spacers from the hardware store, offset the struts so a plate bolted across them is parallel to the centerline and displaced right/left to provide a workable chain line square to the axle. This could solve the rigidity and weird angle issues giving you a simple flat plate motor/jackshaft assembly with simplified chain adjustments, etc.

Other problems with chain clearance might well remain, but just a thought...

 

[neptronix]

I like your idea, though after many dozens of hours in the garage trying to figure how this can be done, i am almost at the end of my rope here.
Those motor mounting plates do not seem perfectly square to the chainline, but i could be wrong.
The rear tubes are welded to the big thick plate with the plate right in the middle, so i can't just extend a big flat metal plate off them..

for a quick visual, the metal plate ( i will represent it as a '|' ) is welded like this:
( | )
Not like this:
|( )
Or like this:
( )|

Maybe it is time to go whimpering back to hub motors with my tail between my legs. I'm thinking that a crystalyte 3540/3548 in a 20" wheel with a rear 2.5" moped tire would be pretty damn sweet. The geometry actually wouldn't be off. It would never wheelie. It would be what my race bike was supposed to be, but more comfortable, and hopefully quicker than the magic pie was ( which truthfully, i had no complaints about! That thing was a damn rocket!! )

If the xtracycle edgerunner turns out to be a good bike, i may continue this MAC motor experiment.

I'm gonna expend a few more dozen brain cells and if that doesn't work, i'm going to wait and see how the edgerunner works out as a frame. Otherwise it's a HS in a 20" wheel for me.

 

[teklektik]

Those motor mounting plates do not seem perfectly square to the chainline, but i could be wrong.
The rear tubes are welded to the big thick plate with the plate right in the middle, so i can't just extend a big flat metal plate off them...

for a quick visual, the metal plate ( i will represent it as a '|' ) is welded like this:
( | )

Hmm - I think I didn't explain this well - (apologies, but drafting tools are stuck on my other (dead) laptop ) Here's another go at it...

What I was thinking was that if you trimmed off the vertical mounts (the "big thick metal plates" you mention above) so there was only an inch or two left on the stays, you would clear out the area of any interfering mounts. Then fab two replacement verticals from angle (or flat stock) and simply bolt them to the original trimmed-off tabs on the stays. They would fit between the stays and overlap the new tabs, so where the originals are welded should not be an issue.

At this point the bike will look almost identical to when you started except that the verticals are new and bolted to tabs on the stays top and bottom. Now bolt your mounting plate or whatever across the verticals as you did before and as shown in some of your pictures. Nothing really has changed, except that now you can put washers/spacers as needed between the tabs and verticals to square the verticals+plate assembly to the chainline and to shift it left or right to align your motor/jackshaft (which are mounted to the plate as you originally intended) with the rear sprocket.

This is just a way to get chainline/sprocket alignment adjustments while leaving the motor/jackshaft/mounting plate/verticals all assembled in one piece. Again - this may not be enough to really solve all the clearance problems.

 

[neptronix]

Well, i've made a decision.
I ordered up a Crystalyte HS3548 in a 20" wheel, a 2.5" x 16" moped tire, and the appropriate bike tube ( schwalbe makes one ). If that's not enough power, i have a Crystalyte 5303 as well in a 26" wheel that could be respoked into a 20".

I want this to basically be like my magic pie race bike, but with a more reasonable kV motor.
I was totally happy with the power of the magic pie bike, it was a thrill to ride, but the wheelie problems no longer being an issue and possibly a little more power/efficiency out of the bigger crystalyte motors should be nice

Absolutely hate to do it, but i'm going back to hubs. This frame's wacky chainline and angles have won.

 

[jkbrigman]

Well, i've made a decision.
I ordered up a Crystalyte HS3548 in a 20" wheel, a 2.5" x 16" moped tire, and the appropriate bike tube ( schwalbe makes one ). If that's not enough power, i have a Crystalyte 5303 as well in a 26" wheel that could be respoked into a 20".

I want this to basically be like my magic pie race bike, but with a more reasonable kV motor.
I was totally happy with the power of the magic pie bike, it was a thrill to ride, but the wheelie problems no longer being an issue and possibly a little more power/efficiency out of the bigger crystalyte motors should be nice

Absolutely hate to do it, but i'm going back to hubs. This frame's wacky chainline and angles have won.

 

[bzhwindtalker]

Since you won't use that lawmower motor... I will build a cozy home for it
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=47054&start=18

 

[neptronix]

You know, if you are interested in mine, i could sell it to you.
I was going to keep it around for a car hybridizing project, but i think i'd like something a bit more powerful.

 

[chroot]

@neptronix - How's your progress on your cargo bike? Forgive me, I am bit behind news lately.

 

[neptronix]

chroot, progress has unfortunately been glacial..

Been anywhere between 30f and 10f average for the past two months here in Utah..
Just brutal! I haven't got much done on the bikes at all. I bought a car that needed some work which is totally ripped apart in the garage at this moment. I have a Crystalyte HS3548 and a 5303 just sitting there collecting dust as well. Just been too cold, even with the heater on, my hands freeze up after about 15 minutes.

Here's the car that's being worked on..

Managed to shoehorn the pirelli 16 x 2.5" onto the HS and get the wiring done ( switched over from ebikes.ca wiring )

But just too damn cold to take a test ride. Maybe at the end of the week.

 

[jkbrigman]

I hear you loud and clear about the cold. We went through a cold snap here last week that ran me out of the garage. We've got warm temps a couple days this week, so I'm working on house chores as fast as I can.

You mentioned "switched over from ebikes.ca wiring". What does that mean - did you swap out the phase wiring for heavier gauge copper and connectors? (I think I see barrel connectors in the pic)

 

[veloman]

You should try out Austin, it was 83 here today. I saw you sold the 5303, why? Is your current running ebike the Mac?

 

[neptronix]

83? great scott! that's crazy for being in the middle of winter. I could never take your summers!
It is finally above freezing but still snowing pretty regularly out here. Sun is just starting to peek out.

5303's gotta go because i need to pay taxes. I think the HS3548 will make me happy anyway. If not, i will go with a h4080.
I've got an 20 pound motor wheel on a ~14 pound frame. It's bone crushingly heavy already. The 5303 is a fantastic motor i am sure, it's just that i want to keep the weight low is all.

 

[Chalo]

83? great scott! that's crazy for being in the middle of winter.

Hey, I'll take it. 83F in the spring comes with lots of skeeters. None today, though. We got a brief but welcome rainstorm around dusk, too.

 

[neptronix]

Just barely scratching 30-40F these days.. the cargo bike wandered out of the garage to see if it was warm enough to ride, got discouraged and crawled back in :lol:

 

[chroot]

Get brook seat with the springy or crane creek thudbuster seatpost. I bought crane creek thudbuster seatpost from one of ES member ambroseliao.

Holy cow so comfortable on my Yuba Mundo cargo bike even at 30mph!

 

[neptronix]

The seat will definitely get an upgrade, in time!

Anyway, here's another twist in the plot. ( what a curvy one it is ! )
I found out that that company that sells the sprockets ( king sprockets and service ) is back in business..

So i ordered a 36T ( had a 39T ) sprocket, and maaaayyybee this will clear up my slight chain alignment difference.
I am going to try the MAC motor again, for science!

 

[neptronix]

Allright, we finally had a nice day of 45F weather... 'bout time!!!
So i put together the bike with the HS3548 motor.

Comments thus far..

+ Sweet baby jesus, the 2.5" hookworms are crazy huge! awesome! Love 'em!!
+ This bike is super stable and safe feeling at 40mph, but if i had to make a sudden turn, then well.... that sucks!
+ These fat tires on this cromo frame basically blunt out all the imperfections in the road... it's a smoother ride than my cars... lol. Love it.
+ The HS3548 likes amps amps & more amps.. I started out at 40A and eventually bumped up the infineon to ~70A / ~150A phase on a 12FET and the poor controller was getting stressed out, it got warm pretty quick from all the continuous amps. I really need an 18FET at a minimum here.
+ This motor is a *lot* quieter than the Magic pie and MAC motors, and has sort of a dull tone to it. I gotta say i miss the groany roar of the magic pie.

OK, so.. this motor doesn't compare to the magic pie ( which just had BRUTAL torque! ) but it is pretty powerful up to about 35mph, where it starts to drop off pretty bad. Of course it is not fair to compare a winding that does 25mph on 36v in a 20" to a winding that does 15mph on 36v in a 20".

I can tell that this motor can take more power than a 9C & is more efficient. I took about 8 blasts from 0-42mph on 72v and it just barely got warm.

I think I need a HS3540 rather than a HS3548.

But i'm going to run the MAC motor and see how that goes first.
Just waiting for the sprockets and such to arrive..

 

[neptronix]

OK, bumped it up to 89A x 200A phase.
I am surprised i didn't blow the 12FET controller. It definitely got warm... :lol:

It does like high volts + high amps apparently. It accelerates almost like my magic pie does now, yay! Now i really believe that the HS3540 is the motor to get for 20" madness.

The dropouts spread and the axle got slightly rounded on my test ride. I guess 1/8" cromoly slots can't handle this. I will be making some torque plates soon to remedy this.

 

[neptronix]

[youtube]i8BeZHrunqM[/youtube]

[youtube]T1beC8eALYA[/youtube]

 

[ohzee]

Looking good Nep.. I really like how that bike looks and man looks like you have plenty speed.

Hope the mac works out for you.

You going to put any storage on the back of that once you get a solution you like ?

 

[neptronix]

Looking good Nep.. I really like how that bike looks and man looks like you have plenty speed.

Hope the mac works out for you.

You going to put any storage on the back of that once you get a solution you like ?

Thanks; definitely there will be some form of storage. I want to put tons of battery on this bike, and have room for water, food, etc for those super long rides.

 

[MattyCiii]

Love the burn out Nep! I can practically smell it!