Deecanios first build the "DC1"

[deecanio]

Hey Y,

Yeh she's a looker no doubt, just need to get some power and we can see how she rides had some great weather at the weekend too - expected to see some knoxie vids as it must have been 65 degrees on both days, very mild.
My Mrs was saying nearly bike time and she is waiting for me to finish the build and take her for a ride in the forest - cannot wait, will be drawing my wiring diagram and posting it for comments and corrections this week whilst looking for a machine shop to lop off the excess crank, the guy did me a real turn with the crank and tensioner which both ride real sweet.
hopefully i can get the arms shortened and tapped while i wait this saturday so i can get on with the cabling and go fo my first test run - will be running 36v30ah initially until i get used to riding electric then will go the full 72v35a
cannot wait!!!!!


D

 

[deecanio]

ok, mocked up the electrics and this is where i will need some help and expose myself as a true "all the gear,no idea"
i have a few questions that i need a good response to so i can proceed with my build.
If i'm honest my whole idea was a "mini blade"- best electrical setup in fs 20" bike with full size frame and i was really pleased at the overall shape and look of my bike......until i put the controller on - i'm getting used to it now but the original idea was no electrics on view,bar the hub, they would all be covered with my mx styled seat which had to be narrow enough not to make the bike look silly.
A adaption of an mx seat is not viable - i've looked into it and it just doesn't work.However a specially made seat is not out of the question for me yet so i need to know about electrical safety with having the wiring under the seat.
i think it can be done but i will definately need some help here - i have an idea to mount using the existing post and bracket with a hinged front that will allow me to flip it over and reveal my whole setup on the underside.
it did occur to me that this may cause me to get "pulled" a few extra times by police thinking its gas but would it really cause me any more probs than the controller and wiring exposed?
im stuck at this point pondering the various wirng configs and mounting on the underside but i think it can be done and at this stage i don't want to comprimise my original idea so any thing that you guys can input will be really appreciated - have a look at my basic probs/questions and see what you think and think about a board/wood? mounted setup for the underside,i think that if done right really could make my bike unique.

 

[Ypedal]

That space in front of the rear tire is kinda sayint things to me .. like " Hey .. controller.. you belong here ) !! You could keep the wires between the motor and controller very short this way.. = good thing.

I would NOT fit a MX seat.. it's a bicycle.. use a bicycle seat.

 

[Ypedal]

Hey.. the seat-post tube.. that thing hollow all the way down to the bottom bracket ???

 

[deecanio]

yup all hollow as far as i now the seatpost is about a foot long - when you say infront of the rear wheel Y what about shock to the controller?
also what do you think on the other issues?

cheers

D

 

[Ypedal]

The controller could be mounted in front of the rear tire, mounted to the swingarm... would require some type of mud-guard setup, a small/medium rear fender/mud guard could do double up as a controller cover.

If the frame tube that your seat-post tube slides into is accessible from the bottom of the frame.. run your battery wire from the controller up thru the frame.. under the seat.. and then to your back-pack !

 

[fechter]

By all means shorten all high current wires as much as possible, especially the ones from the controller to the motor. As long as the wires are long enough to attach a connector, you can always use it in another configuration.

For a breakaway connector, something like Andersons should work good.
It might be good to attach a nylon cord or strap to the connector body and leave some slack in the wires so they don't get damaged by a pull-out. The cord should be attached so that the axis of pull is centered on the connector body so it pulls straight out.

I think bending the torque arms to fit the frame won't affect their strength much. I think the upper mounting will be fine also. The weakest point will still be right at the axle.

Ypedal's suggestion for mounting the controller looks good as long as the controller would fit there without hitting the moving part of the swingarm.
As long as the controller's not attached to the swingarm, I think anywhere on the main frame would be about the same as far as vibration goes.

It might fit better if the controller was turned so it's thinnest dimension was perpendicular to the plane of the frame (so it doesn't stick out sideways as much as possible).

Here's another mounting suggestion, somewhere on the downtube so the wires to the motor can stay short. You might need to make a pair of mounting yokes to wrap around the tube. The yokes could be bolted direclty to the controller if you took it apart (PITA).

 

[joystix2]

Deecanio, Can you tell me what gauge power wires do the Puma motor come with?

Thanks

 

[deecanio]

Hey guys,

joystix2,
i couldn't tell you im afraid as mine came with uprated cable as standard,and the other mod i mentioned which i don't know either,sorry.
i think if your getting a puma speak to knoxie for details or doug at evtech as he supplied teamhybrid initially.all i know is they need modding to handle 72v35a - i think i had the first one in the uk bar knoxies test one,i call it a leap of faith
fechter,
thanks for the your input,i really need good opinions here as i want to push on and get it done but not make noob errors
good news on the shortening of high current cable,the controller battery lead which has to go through the drainbrain really only needs to be 4" long or so.
i had thought about andersons as my breakaway - using the roll pin as the point of anchor maybe?which type of nylon?, i wonder if a strong fishing line might fit through the roll pin.mmmm
if you can run an eye over the 2nd design that would be great i have hassled knoxie enough, he deserves a breather lol
Ypedal,
dude i should fly out there and buy you a beer in person, of course the vacancy left by having a 3" smaller wheel - have a look now, you have restored harmony in my OCD world mate,thank you!!!

 

[deecanio]

Think i've done another wrong 'un - if the controller theres it may as well be mounted in a paint shaker!!!! doh!!
its just too big,and i mean just, to fit against the seatpost - dammit.
im trying to avoid the downtube but it may be the only way to go!!!!


D

 

[Ypedal]

Looking awsome D !!!

I'd leave it.. as long as it's mounted securely and not " Slapping" around it should be fine.. maybe wrap the tube with a few layers of electrical tape.. then zip tie the controller against the tape to dampen things a bit.. but there are no moving parts in that controller.. on the swingarm or the frame.. it's going to be a rough ride no matter what... looks better where it's at.

Keep it up !!

 

[fechter]

Think i've done another wrong 'un - if the controller theres it may as well be mounted in a paint shaker!!!! doh!!
its just too big,and i mean just, to fit against the seatpost - dammit.
im trying to avoid the downtube but it may be the only way to go!!!!
D

I think you're right. The parts inside the controller are not going to be happy with that kind of vibration. Especially in that direction, the capacitors and connectors on the board might fatigue and fail eventually.

On the seat post would be much better as long as there's clearance for the suspension.

I did notice in the pics there's a pair of screws in the down tube that look like they're for a water bottle holder. If you took a piece of sheet aluminum and bent it into an "L" shape, you could bolt the L plate to the two screws and attach the controller to the plate. It might need more than those two screws to be really stable, but zip ties might do it.

 

[fechter]

One other suggestion:
If it's too long to fit, you can take the end plate off and turn it around so the flange goes over the bottom of the controller. This will make it about 15mm shorter.

 

[deecanio]

Hi fellas,
Thanks for the feedback - haven't had chance to do much but had a quick look.
i agree with you both, i think it looks great Ypedal,it ticks every box for me both for looks and cables minimised/tidy but fechter confirmed my fear that it won't stand the beating there compared to the "suspended" main frame
i'm hoping to have the best of both worlds though by just moving it to the seatpost and off the swingarm - with the bottom bracket of the controller reversed it is going to be very very close - thanks for the tip fechter.
i will take a look tomorrow - shame the top one isnt reversable - if it fits on the seatpost that'll be best scenario but if it doesn't im not sure whether to leave it there and take my chances?fixing may be an issue.
the downtube puts me off by way of asthetics alone and i'm hoping not to go there but we'll see.
ill post pics soon as i get it moved,hopefully over the weekend but out sunday and have to pick up the crank arm tomorrow - too much project too little time

thanks for help guys - i'll check back with config 3!!lol


D

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Bad place for the controller mate, stones water mud not good, mid frame water bottle mounts is the best place of all, else get a beam rack on the seat post and fit it there (mine has been running on a beam rack, run for 10 miles daily for 8 months at 72V with no probs)

As soon as those fets arrive I will have the 150V controller to play with so will do some testing, I think the puma may benefit from high volts low current to get the power. we shall see!! ha ha

Cheers

P

 

[deecanio]

keep me posted on that controller mod mate
didnt get chance to change the controller location today so i'll have a go tomorrow if i get chance.
i definately don't want a rack so it will have to be the downtube - shame i really liked the current location,very stealth but if the majority are pointing to the downtube then thats where it will go - maybe ill put it back if knoxie comes up with a bulletproof controller
ill post up after i've relocated it - need to get it into the machine shop this weekend for crank shortening and torque arms, i think this will be the lengthiest delay as i haven't had chance to phone around yet to find out who can do it for me.depressing lol


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[deecanio]

Hey all,

ok picked up the missing crank arm at the weekend and i'm tracking down someone to do the cutting/tapping/drilling/mounting to get the torque arms and cranks done - hopefully i will get them in somewhere at the weekend.
i've rewired again and i'm not too disapointed but to be honest i prefered the old position.Common sense has to prevail though so please have another look guys see what you think now (please let it be ok i want to ride it!!!)lol

 

[xyster]

Hey Deecanio,
That's where I placed my controller, but in the normal upright position -- there were bolt holes there in the frame already, I guess for a water bottle holder?

I haven't had any overheating problems, even with the controller covered by a wood box and lots of duct tape.

 

[deecanio]

Hey Xyster,

yup - going to use the water bottle bolts for a small bracket, hopefully along with the three zip ties should hold it in quite well - i put it on its side to keep the bike "slim" i honestly cant see it when sitting on the bike
need to find a guy to cut and tap my crank and lock my torque arms as a top priority now and then i'll be close to a first ride


D

 

[Ypedal]

Instead of drill and tap... have you considered having them cut and welded shorter ?

 

[TylerDurden]

If the seat-tube doesn't have enough height above the swingarm, you could fabricate a block to set the controller further back, where it can clear the seatclamp and be set higher.

It might be better looking behind the seatpost than in the triangle. If you add a small rack, it could go there too. Aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder... just my 2 pesos.


8)

 

[xyster]

just my 2 pesos

Wow! At 18 cents, your opinion is worth 9 typical opinions!

 

[TylerDurden]

OK, Lyra might be a better metaphor...

My comments are actually free, take em for what they're worth.

:lol:

 

[deecanio]

lol,
all suggestions welcome.
it's not a bad place tyler, positioning is a pain as i dont want a rack and the less brackets the better, i think myself and ypedal agree it looks best in the hole - but really my original position (canned as the mx type seat went) and where it is now are most logical, i think im just going to have to live with it for now.
ypedal i hadn't considered that, i still think it would be better to drill and tap then shorten rather than cut and weld - im not messing with the original arm that way just cutting a bit off the end? maybe im missing a trick as i dont know much about a welders skills would the cut and join be seemless?


cheers


D

 

[Ypedal]

Depending on the material the arm is made of.. ie: aluminum.. cromoly.. etc.. it migh be a piece of cake or impossible. but might be worth checking.

A good welder can zap that sucker.. then grind the weld flush and clean.. a quick shot of paint and no one's the wiser...

Are your arms threaded or splined ? if splined.. cut and weld is pretty much the only option. I just had mine off and i had to buy the special puller to get it off... Use a hex bit to remove the plug.. then take a look behind.

Pedals are usually either square bracket or splined on better models.. i bet yours are splined.