Toshi
10 kW
scooter as in kick-scooter or as in vespa-style?swbluto said:
Denver commuter e-bike
- Thread starter Toshi
- Start date
It's more like a kick-scooter than a vespa, although I wouldn't recommend kicking with it due to its back-pain inducing deck height. Yeah, no seat: it's designed to be road-friendly(including bumpiness) but yet compact enough to comfortably take aboard a bus(Although with Seattle's typical crowded-ness on buses, I'm thinking my choice of seating will be restricted.).
Toshi
10 kW
i tested my battery's capacity today. nominally 48V 12Ah, it is a prismatic LiFePO4 pack with BMS from ebikes.ca.
stats from today's ride:
Vinitial 55.9V
Vend 46V, which climbed back up to 48.1V after an hour of non-use
16.1 miles at 19.9 mph average, using 31.2 Wh/mile (with me pedaling along at a cruising speed of 23-25 mph probably 80% of the time)
11.62 Ah and 502.61 Wh out of theoretical 12 Ah and 576 Wh
In the last 0.5Ah or so I couldn't draw more than 400W without having voltage sag down below 42V so I called it quits. (i then proceeded to use my bus pass to take a diesel hybrid-electric bus back to downtown and then an electric trolley bus back to my place. seattle rocks.)
stats from today's ride:
Vinitial 55.9V
Vend 46V, which climbed back up to 48.1V after an hour of non-use
16.1 miles at 19.9 mph average, using 31.2 Wh/mile (with me pedaling along at a cruising speed of 23-25 mph probably 80% of the time)
11.62 Ah and 502.61 Wh out of theoretical 12 Ah and 576 Wh
In the last 0.5Ah or so I couldn't draw more than 400W without having voltage sag down below 42V so I called it quits. (i then proceeded to use my bus pass to take a diesel hybrid-electric bus back to downtown and then an electric trolley bus back to my place. seattle rocks.)
Toshi
10 kW
after riding the A2B with its superior low-end thrust i'm left wondering whether i'd have been better suited with a 408 or 409 even in a 26" wheel on my current rig. as it is my bike has great power from 17 mph up to the top speed but it frankly feels anemic below that speed. this is good in the sense of just feeling like a bike with assist rather than a scooter, but for hill-climbing and overall tractability i think low- and mid-range power is ultimately more important than a top-end surge...Toshi said:today i wasn't too sleepy post-call so i journeyed to Soundspeed Scooters [...]
i rode the following:
Ultra Motor A2B
the A2B was much more entertaining. again, it seems very well put together, with the slick battery-in-downtube setup, a built-in torque arm, and provisions for an extra battery. my thoughts:
- it felt like a downhill bike with 20" wheels, very fun. although its cockpit was similarly high it had a totally different feel, and i was slaloming things, jumping off curbs, and trying futilely to bunnyhop it. (its rear hub motor weighs down the rear sufficiently that i couldn't loft it.)
- in a side to side race with my bike it completely smoked mine off the line, with much better torque from the 20" hub motor compared to mine in a 26" wheel. whereas it peters out at 20 mph however mine starts to come into its own around 18 mph and pulls until 24-26 mph. so it was like a squat bulldog charging off the line compared to my long-legged beast.
- the suspension felt pretty decent. rear end was undersprung and i bottomed it a few times but that's easily addressable.
- all in all a grin-inducing machine. i approve.
My 407 feels the same way, I have a nine continents rear wheel that is actually faster but also has better low end power(something about the magnets) I like it much better. I have a spare front kit(I bought 2 when I ordered) It's slower than the 407 (22-23mph @48v) but it has way better low end power. I decided to use the rear as I like to go fairly fast and don't have many hills to deal with.
Toshi
10 kW
new glamour shots from january on a rare sunny winter day. the columns are part of an overlook/mini-park near downtown and nearby to where i live up on capitol hill.
Toshi
10 kW
i broke a spoke either today on the ride home or yesterday on the way to the hospital. anyone know offhand what size/length these spokes are? i'm pretty sure they're 13 ga but haven't found a good answer for length. Crystalyte 407 hub in a 26" rim.
Russell
1 MW
Toshi said:
This place sells the stock C'lyte spokes;
http://www.poweridestore.com/13-Gauge-Spokes/26-Series-13ga-400-Spokes
Usually a spoke breaks off at the bend near the flange so just measure what's left and that'll be very close.
BTW, I have found the DT Swiss spoke calculator to be a very accurate tool for calculating spoke length, assuming of course you know and understand what parameters it's asking you to input.
-R
Toshi
10 kW
thanks for the replies. per Zev @ ebikes.ca it looks as if my wheel has 13 gauge spokes that are 191mm in length. for future reference DT Swiss does sell (straight gauge/non-butted) spokes in that size, assuming i'm reading their specs correctly: http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components2009/Spokes/DT-champion-silver.aspx
update: unfortunately DT Swiss USA doesn't import the above 13 gauge spoke (only the 15 and 14 ga models) and, as far as i can tell, no bike shops in the Seattle area carry 13 ga spokes, let alone freakishly short ones such as those that i need. R+E Cycles (http://www.rodcycle.com/) might be of assistance but they're closed Mondays.
in any case Zev is sending me some spokes and the bike is still rideable albeit noisy so i'll soldier on.
update: unfortunately DT Swiss USA doesn't import the above 13 gauge spoke (only the 15 and 14 ga models) and, as far as i can tell, no bike shops in the Seattle area carry 13 ga spokes, let alone freakishly short ones such as those that i need. R+E Cycles (http://www.rodcycle.com/) might be of assistance but they're closed Mondays.
in any case Zev is sending me some spokes and the bike is still rideable albeit noisy so i'll soldier on.
Toshi
10 kW
turns out that even R+E Cycles, which does a lot of tandem business, doesn't carry 13 ga spokes. the 3 courteously sent out to me by ebikes.ca arrived today, however, and i popped one in to the toothless gap.
8)
on a side note, i find that i rarely vary by more than 10% in my energy usage on my daily commute these days. interesting, that. 0.95-1.05 Ah (at 48V) heading uphill to work, 0.5-0.6 Ah heading on the mostly downhill reverse route to my apartment.
8)
on a side note, i find that i rarely vary by more than 10% in my energy usage on my daily commute these days. interesting, that. 0.95-1.05 Ah (at 48V) heading uphill to work, 0.5-0.6 Ah heading on the mostly downhill reverse route to my apartment.
Toshi
10 kW
awesome. i find it hard enough to avoid sharp edged potholes with 26" wheels and 1.75" tires, so i can't even imagine going close to the same speed on small wheels. the one time i rollerbladed into work along the burke gilman i was petrified the whole way -- every small root that buckles the asphalt became a potentially devastating obstacle.swbluto said:Just finished my scooter. I might be at SoundSpeed scooters tomorrow to show it off(And, yes, I'll be taking the bus there).
Or maybe not. I'm not feeling like it right now, but I'm sure I will eventually.
recumbent
100 kW
Toshi, did your wheel make clicking noises before your spoke broke?
As for the thicker gauge spokes, even tandem bikes carrying panniers just use more spokes, not thicker ones.
As for the thicker gauge spokes, even tandem bikes carrying panniers just use more spokes, not thicker ones.
Toshi
10 kW
my wheel did make clicking noises prior to retensioning the spokes about 100 miles ago. it had been silent until then.
with regard to more spokes, this one already has 36! i suppose we could go with 48 like the flatland BMXers use... or what the eGo uglified electric "bike" uses, for that matter:
with regard to more spokes, this one already has 36! i suppose we could go with 48 like the flatland BMXers use... or what the eGo uglified electric "bike" uses, for that matter:
Drunkskunk
100 GW
lack of available 13 guage spokes lead to me fixing my wheel with 14 guage DTswiss spokes when I broke 3 spokes 2 summers ago.
later, when tearing the motor out to relace in a new rim, I used small bolt cutters to clip the spokes. the thicker 13 guage Crystalytes could be cliped with one hand. the thinner 14 guage DTswiss needed two hands and some strain to cut.
The new wheel is built with all DT Swiss 14 guage, and is noticably stiffer.
later, when tearing the motor out to relace in a new rim, I used small bolt cutters to clip the spokes. the thicker 13 guage Crystalytes could be cliped with one hand. the thinner 14 guage DTswiss needed two hands and some strain to cut.
The new wheel is built with all DT Swiss 14 guage, and is noticably stiffer.
Toshi
10 kW
i definitely believe that the 13 ga Crystalyte spokes are junk. it sure would be nice to get a hold of some of those European-market 13 ga DT Swiss spokes, however... mmm, overkill. 8)
ideal would be the DT Swiss Alpine triple butted models, but 191 mm is sadly not such a length, and butted spokes aren't amenable to shortening and rethreading.
ideal would be the DT Swiss Alpine triple butted models, but 191 mm is sadly not such a length, and butted spokes aren't amenable to shortening and rethreading.
Toshi said:awesome. i find it hard enough to avoid sharp edged potholes with 26" wheels and 1.75" tires, so i can't even imagine going close to the same speed on small wheels. the one time i rollerbladed into work along the burke gilman i was petrified the whole way -- every small root that buckles the asphalt became a potentially devastating obstacle.swbluto said:Just finished my scooter. I might be at SoundSpeed scooters tomorrow to show it off(And, yes, I'll be taking the bus there).
Or maybe not. I'm not feeling like it right now, but I'm sure I will eventually.
I know what you mean about the Burke Gilman! I was thinking that it was purposely tree-lined for recreation, but all those roots don't make bicycling down it pleasant(especially as you get closer to Lake City. It seems some have become proactive as to its obstacles and one took initiative to circling the "inverted bumps"/dips with white paint. I especially found the one with the smiling face associated with it amusing.). I don't think I'd even consider going down it at 25 mph on an electric bicycle(unless it was suspended.) not considering slower users as it seemed to be jolting enough going 15 mph.
I don't think I'll be taking the burke-gilman with my scooter as, well, let's say its electric-ness isn't inconspicuous. Imagine what you might think if you saw some guy going 15 mph on a whiny scooter without pushing with thick wires sticking out of his backpack and leading to the scooter's back.
Toshi
10 kW
i had a day off so took a ride this afternoon. was nippy and windy, but was still the first ride in a long time where i wore sunglasses; didn't have my hood under my helmet for wind protection; didn't have a fleece on under my shell; and didn't don the rainpants over my normal gear. spring is coming but definitely not here, heh.
anyway, i headed along the waterfront away from downtown down by the seattle art museum sculpture park, for those familiar with the area. getting there is a slog, racing traffic up and down Denny and then Elliot, but the path itself is nice once reached, if a little crowded. once you get to the magnolia bridge area it gets really weird: the bike trail goes through a BNSF railroad yard, and it is bordered on both sides by fences topped with barbed wire. what's more, it narrows down to about 4 ft. in width -- and this is a two way path! -- and heads over some funky fenced-in pedestrian bridges over the railyard. very industrial and foreign.
on the way back i went along the waterfront, in fact passing by the venue for jessica and my upcoming wedding. getting from the waterfront back to downtown, and from downtown to capitol hill, where i live, is kind of a pain. my favored route involves taking an elevator to a skybridge that crosses over railroad tracks, climbing a few blocks up a very steep hill, racing the cars along 2nd avenue, then slogging up pike, dodging taxis, buses, and pedestrians alike. how steep is this steep hill? look at the elevation profile right after mile 8 on the route map below...
route map:
my lifetime energy usage/mile is below units are Watt-hours per mile, a commonly used unit for measuring the efficiency of electric vehicles. Tesla claims anywhere from 115-300 Wh/mile for their Roadster, for reference, confirming the common sense truism that cars indeed use much more energy than bikes, even when both are electric. the scattering of low values at the beginning is from when i used to ride it like a normal bike, only adding electric assist on hills. nowadays i'm more or less full throttle all the time, pedaling as well, of course.
anyway, i headed along the waterfront away from downtown down by the seattle art museum sculpture park, for those familiar with the area. getting there is a slog, racing traffic up and down Denny and then Elliot, but the path itself is nice once reached, if a little crowded. once you get to the magnolia bridge area it gets really weird: the bike trail goes through a BNSF railroad yard, and it is bordered on both sides by fences topped with barbed wire. what's more, it narrows down to about 4 ft. in width -- and this is a two way path! -- and heads over some funky fenced-in pedestrian bridges over the railyard. very industrial and foreign.
on the way back i went along the waterfront, in fact passing by the venue for jessica and my upcoming wedding. getting from the waterfront back to downtown, and from downtown to capitol hill, where i live, is kind of a pain. my favored route involves taking an elevator to a skybridge that crosses over railroad tracks, climbing a few blocks up a very steep hill, racing the cars along 2nd avenue, then slogging up pike, dodging taxis, buses, and pedestrians alike. how steep is this steep hill? look at the elevation profile right after mile 8 on the route map below...
route map:
my lifetime energy usage/mile is below units are Watt-hours per mile, a commonly used unit for measuring the efficiency of electric vehicles. Tesla claims anywhere from 115-300 Wh/mile for their Roadster, for reference, confirming the common sense truism that cars indeed use much more energy than bikes, even when both are electric. the scattering of low values at the beginning is from when i used to ride it like a normal bike, only adding electric assist on hills. nowadays i'm more or less full throttle all the time, pedaling as well, of course.
As a followup from the Clyte K7 compatible side cover thread, just what are those fenders? I'd assumed they were chromoplastics at a glance but on closer inspection seems they're not, and the given specs for the bike don't specify what kind of fenders they are. Do they perhaps have the maker's name stamped on them somewhere, or something?
Toshi
10 kW
they are devoid of markings. they were the OEM specced fenders on the Novara Transfer. they should be available as a replacement part through REI.Mathurin said:
Toshi
10 kW
ebikes.ca updated their front page on Feb 20. in particular they mention that they have new 72V 30A pedal-first controllers from Crystalyte...
<starts scheming>
i think i might have to build my fiancée an electric bicycle later this summer. she'll inherit my 72V 20A pedal-first controller and Crystalyte 407 in the 26" front wheel, and the Cycle Analyst as well since its settings reflect the current setup. i'll raid ebikes.ca's shelves for a Nine Continent 48-pole unit, probably the high-torque model given my on-the-bike experiences with the 407 complete with a paired CA, substituting the 72V 30A controller that they just started stocking for an extra burst of power.
only hitches: i'll need an extra battery. also, how to justify this given that i'll also want to purchase a gasoline powered scooter around this period of time? hmm. 8)
<starts scheming>
i think i might have to build my fiancée an electric bicycle later this summer. she'll inherit my 72V 20A pedal-first controller and Crystalyte 407 in the 26" front wheel, and the Cycle Analyst as well since its settings reflect the current setup. i'll raid ebikes.ca's shelves for a Nine Continent 48-pole unit, probably the high-torque model given my on-the-bike experiences with the 407 complete with a paired CA, substituting the 72V 30A controller that they just started stocking for an extra burst of power.
only hitches: i'll need an extra battery. also, how to justify this given that i'll also want to purchase a gasoline powered scooter around this period of time? hmm. 8)
recumbent
100 kW
Toshi said:
I'd love to know when the "pedal first" controlers kick-in (mph) with the Nine Continents motor. I always pedal first when starting anyways, instinctively.
Patriot
10 kW
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2008
- Messages
- 511
You know, I've somewhat avoided this thread for fear I would have no input.
Well, I still have no serious input.
My only dilemna after seeing your custom torque arms, is that I need to fashion some torque arms as well.
My setup has a rear hub motor, and I have no torque arm that will fit properly. I found one on ebay that looks promising, but I still think it may not work right, because my dropout angles are the old 70's style, which are almost parallel to the ground.
I'll have to think of something. If I can't come up with something, my only hope is that the very wide steel dropouts will be strong enough without the need for a torque arm.
One thing I have discovered which helps in holding the axle better than anything, is a very good lock washer that will keep those big nuts nice and tight.
So, I got ahold of some large Star-Lok washers, which lock the nuts much better than the regular split washers that come with the motors.
Ya know what else is funny. I actually recognize all the streets and maps posted. I live in Port Orchard, and I commute across the Narrows bridge to Tacoma. 23 miles one way. So, my new ebike will get me there, and I can recharge at work to ride home.
I'll have to keep an eye on those dropouts.
Well, I still have no serious input.
My only dilemna after seeing your custom torque arms, is that I need to fashion some torque arms as well.
My setup has a rear hub motor, and I have no torque arm that will fit properly. I found one on ebay that looks promising, but I still think it may not work right, because my dropout angles are the old 70's style, which are almost parallel to the ground.
I'll have to think of something. If I can't come up with something, my only hope is that the very wide steel dropouts will be strong enough without the need for a torque arm.
One thing I have discovered which helps in holding the axle better than anything, is a very good lock washer that will keep those big nuts nice and tight.
So, I got ahold of some large Star-Lok washers, which lock the nuts much better than the regular split washers that come with the motors.
Ya know what else is funny. I actually recognize all the streets and maps posted. I live in Port Orchard, and I commute across the Narrows bridge to Tacoma. 23 miles one way. So, my new ebike will get me there, and I can recharge at work to ride home.
I'll have to keep an eye on those dropouts.
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