Dependable 1,000 watt hub motor?

E

ebikec2rev

10 mW
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
21
What is the most dependable and all around best 1,000 watt hub motor? I plan to buy a hub motor with a decent amount of power, enough to get me going pretty fast (35-40mph) nothing crazy, and that can climb hills well. I plan to couple it with a 48volt 20ah pingbattery.

My idea is to have a few different types of rides depending on what I'll need them for. I've already created an efficient and light e-bike set-up for casual everyday errands, for exercise, and relaxation in enjoying the air and taking in the scenery (my first and only build so far).

With this second e-bike build I wanted something that could travel distances fast and climb hills. Something more powerful that can really get me around. I'm not necessarily going to buy a brand new bike for this one(though, I might). The plan was to swap out the parts each time I use it. I'm looking into a rear motor.


If anyone could suggest a good hub motor company like this I would much appreciate it.
 
While not technically '1000watt' (i don't think iz it DoGMaN? 500watt isn't it?) but the MAC frock from Cell_man IMHO is your best value for money frock hands down for what you specified (will run well in excess of 500watt) is not direct drive will climb hills like a mountain goat and hit your 35mph on 48v...

KiM
 
35-40mph, and hills.. you're gonna be looking at something like a crystalyte x5 to handle the power.

Take 7-10mph off your calculation, and you could get by with a simple DD like a 9C, or if you can live with less than perfect reliability, MAC/BMC style motor, which would be a far better climber.

I have a 9C style DD and a MAC. The MAC is better in every way.
 
neptronix said:
35-40mph, and hills.. you're gonna be looking at something like a crystalyte x5 to handle the power.

Take 7-10mph off your calculation, and you could get by with a simple DD like a 9C, or if you can live with less than perfect reliability, MAC/BMC style motor, which would be a far better climber.

I have a 9C style DD and a MAC. The MAC is better in every way.
Click to expand...

I saw you mentioning that your MAC 500W burned up because you put too much KW into it. Would it make sense then to advise purchasers to grab the MAC 1000W for future-proofing?

The price different is only $17 too!

I think something happened to Cell_man while he was on vacation. The site still shows that its closed when its suppose to be open on the 6th of December.
 
qtipslea said:
I saw you mentioning that your MAC 500W burned up because you put too much KW into it. Would it make sense then to advise purchasers to grab the MAC 1000W for future-proofing?

The price different is only $17 too!

I think something happened to Cell_man while he was on vacation. The site still shows that its closed when its suppose to be open on the 6th of December.
Click to expand...

I put 4kW into it a few times, did a curb drop the next day, and after 1 year of operation, the original white gears finally died, but the motor certainly didn't burn up :) ... mind you, the motors currently for sale are gonna have stronger gray gears..

Before that, i was regularly doing 30-38mph constant for months ( 2300w ), which is totally fine for short hilly trips or long flat ones.

So i don't think my recommendation is unreasonable :)

the "1000w" motor does not handle any more or less power. All it is is a different wind of the 500w motor, designed to go faster on a lower voltage.
 
Cell_man is definitely back, and answering emails. He did have a backlog of emails etc to deal with but seems to be powering through them, as he has already replied to the the ones i sent while he was away.

I would send him any questions you have, and just be patient, knowing that he will address them, but is still catching up from his leave.. Let me know how you go, as I am also still deciding which MAC kit to get.. I am definitely getting a MAC though, and leaning towards the 8T, but deciding which controller.. (damn future proofing.. lol) I would just get the 9 fet for safety, but from what i was told, I could always get the 12, and program the max current down.. Also, could do it via Cycle Analyst.. So still deciding.

Cheers,

Tuna.

p.s. Neptronix: been watching your youtube vidoes lately.. awesome..
 
Mac 1000w on hills is a disaster. If you want hill claim to you need slow wind. You want speed you need high speed wind. You can get hill climb and speed of. You get slow wind and high voltage. If you want dependability, you need to run it at low power.

what you are asking is pretty hard to get with 48v on hub motor.

Good luck with your second build.
 
Ebike2crev, Man, you find the motor that does that and I want 5 of em.

Bottom line is, 1000w only goes but so fast, that's the laws of physics, regardess of the winding. That is, that is pretty set in stone for a bike ridden in a normal, not tucked, not recumbent position. At 30 mph, pedaling up more than 1-2 mph more speed is pretty difficult, so even a mondo front gear only helps but so much.

You simply are not going to climb hills beyond a certain grade, or go past a certain speed on 1000w.

You can easily make a motor that goes pretty fast on 48v and 20-30 amp controller suitable for use with the 20 ah ping. For fast, either the 9c 2806, Crystalyte HS, or the 7 turn Mac. None of those will climb stellar, but will certainly handle 8% grades fine. You should see around 30 mph for sure.

You can easily make a motor that goes up hills very nice on 1000w. The slower 8 turn Mac, the 2810 9c, and so forth. But they won't go fast. A really slow winding will not climb a hill faster, or better. It will simply grind slowly up the hill with much less risk of melting the motor down. It will feel to the rider like a tiny bit more power, because less power is being wasted into heat. For example, the 9c 2810 on a 22 amp controller will climb up to 15% for quite awhile, giving at least double the time to overheat at that grade. But the price is a top speed at 48v of about 19 mph.

This is all in 26" wheel btw. You can use faster windings if you gear down with a smaller wheel. But then you lose top speed unless you volt up.

To do both, get the max speed out of 1000w AND climb a hill nice, you'd have to be using gears to step the motor down for the hills. Then you can run your 1000w motor at the right rpm whether you are climbing a hill, or hauling ass on the flat. This is why the stokemonkey type bike got popular in San Francisco.

What I did was compromise by volting up the slow winding 9 continent motor. I suggest you get a slower winding direct drive motor, so 9c 2810 rear, HT clyte rear, something like that. Get the 9 fet 72v controller from Lyens. It's only 20 amps, so it won't hurt your ping. Then add 24v more battery to the ping in series. Good enough time to make the lipo plunge as any, so get some 6s lipo and run the bike on 72v 20 amps.

You'll have reasonable speed, perhaps 30 mph, and decent climbing without overheating so fast. I don't have the personal experience with the Mac to say this will be a solution that will last a reasonable time if you run the mac at 72v 20 amps. It might work, but I can't say I did it and it worked.

My personal setups are one bike with 2810 9c, 48v 20 amp controller, 48v 15 ah ping. The other, more fun one runs a 2812 9c 72v 40 amp controller, and 72v 10 ah lipo. That one really climbs, and runs 25 mph. Right now, you can only get the 2810 though from Methods in the for sale section. It should go 30 at 72v, and be closer to your desire for fast and climbs.

The last option is really going to throw money at the problem. Get lipo, Get a 24 fet 100v controller, go for it with a huge motor. Once your are running between 5000 and 10,000 w, the hills are going to be bumps, and your will be going 50 mph.
 
Thanks for the answers, sorry it took so long. I have a computer but I'm not online often - and plus, by nature, I can't sit still for very long, I must move around. And sitting down typing, although I'm pretty good at it I think, I have a hard time doing.

I guess I should start off by saying what I have so far. The kit I have now is a 700c direct drive Ampedbikes front kit. I went with Ampedbikes because I saw that they were inexpensive (good for my budget), came complete, and I had heard good things about them after much research. And, I bought a 36volt 15ah pingbattery. My top speed is 22-23mph flat (with mild to moderate peddling), and I've climbed short hills already and it seemed to be able to climb them okay, just not very fast and I didn't feel the power. I could tell it was getting tired so to speak.

Back on point, I heard somewhere that the ampedbikes hub motor is actually a 9c hub motor. In that case, do you think this motor that I already have will work decent for the hill climbing and speed I'm looking for if I bought a more powerful battery and better controller? Also, dogman, where would I find these Lipos? (I realize Ampedbikes warranty will expire if I use a battery over 36volts, but if it comes to it, I'll buy 48volts)

In a month or so I plan to buy an Ampedbikes geared front (or rear) hub motor which would just about complete my efficient, light, nimble 'casual-use' e-bike build. But, I've been juggling between getting the front or back geared hub motor. I just can't decide which would be better. Which do you think is a better choice? (If this helps I have an 'improved' Giant Cypress ST. And it has a suspension seat post.)

I saw a video on youtube of a guy who was having problems with the 'teeth' (I forget the name of this part) for the chain-set on his ampedbikes rear geared hub motor. If I knew that this was only a fluke, I would probably side with the rear-geared motor. Also, I just don't like the idea of too many complicated parts in one area. With a front motor I can just take it off and put it back on. No gears, no chain, no adjustments, no failures.
What are the benefits of a rear hub motor?




Maybe 40mph is asking for too much. If I could get 30-35mph on flat I think that would probably be just fine. Even just under 30 would be fine with me.
 
That DD motor is actually a MXUS motor, not a 9C. It's very close in operation to the 9C, but it is not literally a 9C motor.

That small geared motor is also a MXUS unit. Not known for it's power output. It would do low 20mph on 48v. For an additional 1-2 pounds of weight, you should really consider the MAC motor we pointed you to. When/if the gears ever go out, there are replacements available. With the MXUS small geared motor, not so much. Those motors aren't even designed to be taken apart and serviced, just thrown away.

The MAC will literally handle 3 times more power constant than the tiny geared motor anyway. 8)
 
dogman said:
Ebike2crev, Man, you find the motor that does that and I want 5 of em.
Click to expand...
Dogman,
What's your address for the 5 motors? With conservative controller settings (60A peak battery side, 74V nominal old saggy Konions) my new 93% peak efficiency hubbie with series/parallel switching is doing about 45mph on the flats with fun acceleration (soon I'll try exhilarating) in parallel, and it halls 250lb me and 90lb bike up a 25% grade without getting past a little warm. On the 2nd run I even stopped in the middle of the steepest section and went at it from a dead stop. My 175lb son took it on the same hill in high and powered right up it at almost 30mph and it was barely warm. With some hard riding on the flats (lots of stop and go with hard accelerations seeing how fast I could run errands) I was able to get it to warm but not nearly as warm as my larger scooter hubbies get with the same kind of hard riding. The parallel/series switching thing is a beast for the mountains, and the high efficiency is beautiful with above 80% efficiency over more than half of the operating range.

John
 
When I ran my 6 turn high speed Mac on 48v lipo 23amp max, it ate 6% grade hills very nicely, with a little pedal assisting. I kept pace with gas scooters pretty well. It also could get above 35mph on the flat if you tuck down a bit and don't wear loose clothes. It's still not a torque-y motor, you don't want to be caught at a stop on a hill and expect it to blast you up, but if you have some good speed going in, it does just fine. Keep the 6 turn above 20mph and it's happy. Of course, all my riding has been at 21/23amp max. You can certainly run 30-40amps and imagine what that will do.

Even on 36v 21amp lifepo4 I burn past other cyclists at 2-3 times their speed up hills. The Mac is a great motor, just don't do stupid things to it or pretend it's a motorcycle and run super high voltage/power like many do on a clyte.


With that said, if you are running a 48v battery, why not get the 8 turn Mac, which will go 30mph or so? The difference between 30 and 35mph isn't worth the massive amount of more power required. I would recommend the 8 turn for city riding, and the 6 turn for constant, flat-rolling terrain for a <200lb rider. (I'm 175lbs).

At 1200 miles on my Mac, the gears look brand new.
 
neptronix said:
That DD motor is actually a MXUS motor, not a 9C. It's very close in operation to the 9C, but it is not literally a 9C motor.

That small geared motor is also a MXUS unit. Not known for it's power output. It would do low 20mph on 48v. For an additional 1-2 pounds of weight, you should really consider the MAC motor we pointed you to. When/if the gears ever go out, there are replacements available. With the MXUS small geared motor, not so much. Those motors aren't even designed to be taken apart and serviced, just thrown away.

The MAC will literally handle 3 times more power constant than the tiny geared motor anyway. 8)
Click to expand...





Is this mac motor geared? And where can I find one? Also, is it compatible with my ampedbikes controller? Oh yeah, and how many lbs is it? Sorry for so many questions, it's just that now I'm interested. If this is a lot better than ampedbikes geared motor I would definitely prefer this one. Would it be better to get a front or rear version?
 
The 6 turn Mac would be a good compromise. Fast motor, but having the internal planetary gears, it should handle hills slightly better than a fast winding dd motor like a 9c 2806 when run on 48v 20 amps ( about 1000-1200w). Climbing 6% is only a moderate hill, so if that is all you need then you can compromise on the hill climbing. If you need to climb really steep stuff, above 10% grade, then you need to compromise speed, or blow a lot more than 1000w at it.

Build a 50 mph bike, an you betcha it will climb a hill. :twisted: But at 4000w, not 1000w. And the time you can run it gets limited by heating.

Get the Mac here http://www.emissions-free.com/
 
I love my Mac from Cell Man.
I've done 4000km with mine running 2500w peaks most of the time and now running 2900w peak.
I run it on 16s A123 15ah pouches, 50 volts and it does 50kmh until the battery is depleted with no heat issues.
I have upgraded the phase wires though.
Cheers,
Matt.
 
stripedtuna said:
What did you do to upgrade the phase wires?

cheers,

Ed..
Click to expand...
On the bike that runs 2900w peaks I drilled the axle so I could put wires in from both sides and I used 10awg wires, see here, http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17330&start=15
This is not necessary IMO.

The latest Mac build I did, see here, http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28776

I installed the Mac with 12awg phase wires through the standard axle and is running 30amp battery and 70amp phase currents giving a peak wattage of 2300W showing no problems with wire temps and has now done 2000km like this.
Just strip the insulation off some 12awg and put fairly snug fit heat shrink on each of the phase wires then have one final layer of heat shrink encasing the three phase and five hall wires.

Cheers,
Matt.
 
Wow..
I just read both of those build threads Matt..

"Round of applause" inserted here...

Amazing stuff, and certainly was a great pleasure to read..
Reason I asked about the phase wire upgrade was due to me ordering a new Mac motor, which has the phase wire upgrade directly from cell_man.. Was curious as to an example of how others would tackle such an upgrade.. Your work was very proffessional mate..
Thanks..
Ed.
 
dogman said:
The 6 turn Mac would be a good compromise. Fast motor, but having the internal planetary gears, it should handle hills slightly better than a fast winding dd motor like a 9c 2806 when run on 48v 20 amps ( about 1000-1200w). Climbing 6% is only a moderate hill, so if that is all you need then you can compromise on the hill climbing. If you need to climb really steep stuff, above 10% grade, then you need to compromise speed, or blow a lot more than 1000w at it.

Build a 50 mph bike, an you betcha it will climb a hill. :twisted: But at 4000w, not 1000w. And the time you can run it gets limited by heating.

Get the Mac here http://www.emissions-free.com/
Click to expand...




Thanks alot for the link dogman - that mac looks fantastic.
http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i24.html


I have a 36volt 15ah pingbattery - will it work well with this motor? I hope this one doesn't suck too much power. I like to have good range.



I see the Ampedbikes ie MXUS geared hub motor too.. and I'm only going to say it's comparitively less expensive here. I don't know what the difference is, if there is one(maybe only the plug & play), but this site has a better deal on it.




I can't seem to find how much it weighs though - the mac 6-turn motor that is. I guess I will shoot them an e-mail. I think that might just be what I'm looking for.







ps. I was also looking at this one

http://www.emissions-free.com/catalog/i23.html

If the 6-turn would kill my battery, I'd rather something a little less powerful like this one. But, I could just ride not at full speed until I buy a more powerful battery. That 52volt triangle pack looks tempting.
 
erm......

The 6 turn MAC has the lowest torque of all the MACs and is by far the least effective hill climber, and it does require a lot of amps rather than volts to attain a high speed. You would want to run about 30-40 amps on it constant, and that would be pushing the 15AH ping quite a bit.

The 6T is a great motor if you live in a pretty flat area. Otherwise you should consider the 8 turn ( nice balance of all attributes ), or if where you live is a mountainous rollercoaster, the 10 turn on higher voltage to achieve the speed you like is going to be best.

All the rear 500W & the 1000W MAC motors are the same weight. The only difference is the winding of the stator ( how many turns ).
The hub is about 10 pounds, or 11 pounds in a wheel.

Realistically, this motor is good for about 30-35mph with some hill climbing, not much more. If you want 50mph power, you'll have to run a dual hub setup... or a big ol' heavy crystalyte X5 / "cro-motor", in terms of hubs...

The ampedbikes / MXUS geared hub motor can handle about 1/3rd of the power that the MAC can and it's only 2-3 pounds lighter. Going much over 20mph on that motor is pushing it and hill climbing is going to be lacking at power levels that it can handle. I know this because i owned one, it was my first motor. :)
 
Agreed. If you use a 22 amp controller it will not kill your ping. But you will tend to stall the motor some leaving the stop signs, so you'd want to give the pedals a few brisk pumps as you take off, maybe even a few pumps before you hit throttle. It would climb a lot better if you had 48v, so I wouldn't recomend the 6t winding for 36v and steep hills. But it should climb up to 5% with no particular problems at 36v. It will get up steeper stuff, but you need to pedal hard to keep it going about 15 mph.

I believe you'd see around 25 mph at 36v. Reviewing where this discussion all started, A 36v ping is never going to get you to 35-40 mph. You need more watts than 1000 for 35 mph on an ordinary upright bike. But the recipe to just squeak into the 40 mph club is easy.

9 continent or similar clone in 2807 winding, 40 amp 72v controller, 20s lipo. Or any similar motor, HS clyte, Conhis, etc. 2806 9c would be a tad faster. You need the 2500w or so to get into the 40 mph club.
 
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