Does your X5 Hub Motor Hop At Speed?

[Stevil_Knevil]

Snipped and pasted from the E-scooter pics section..

..My wheel also shook violently the first time I spun it off the ground but after my first ride it all evened out. I think the rubber just needs to seat itself properly and once you ride it around a little it'll do that..

Now there's some obscure laws of physics at work! It seems totally counter-intuitive to me, but almost makes sense when I think about it from the tire's perspective.

Thanks for the good advice guys.

Fechter- Once I figure out how to pop the side covers off (will post some pictures), I'll experiment with turning them and re-measuring. That's plan a.

Patrick- You have a good point. I'm 100% sure that I can lace a wheel to roll true in the lateral and radial planes. It will take a little more fine-tuning on the truing stand -but I have zero guarantee that the hopping will be removed by doing this.

When I was blissfully unaware of this motors' condition, I might have just laced it up and run with it.. but I've seen the numbers on the dial indicator.
My intuition is telling me that I need to start with a true-running hub motor, or I'll just end up unlacing it, repairing the problem and re-lacing it.. again.

The worst-case scenario is that I have a tacoed wheel to offer "The Gods of Speed". But, I think they already have enough :lol:


-S

 

[Ypedal]

Removing the side covers can be a challenge.

First thing i did was take a blade knife and run along the seam between the cover and the spoke ring to break away the enamel paint..

Then, using a putty knife and a rubber mallet i carefully went around the entire cover and broke the seal..

Then you use a 3 jaw puller and push the axle thru....

Not easy.. and for god sakes.. BE CAREFUL as the magnets are strong and will take your fingertips hostage if you get them in the wrong place at the wrong time....

I beleive the covers are sand-cast and not spun on a lathe. so they do wobble a bit.. once laced and loaded with weight they roll along fine..

I have 50 of these c-lyte motors on the way, i'm curious to find out how many of them have the " wobble " .....

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

Removing the side covers can be a challenge.. Not easy.. and for god sakes.. BE CAREFUL as the magnets are strong and will take your fingertips hostage if you get them in the wrong place at the wrong time....

Big time thanks for the (finger) tips! Got any pics?

I beleive the covers are sand-cast and not spun on a lathe. so they do wobble a bit.. once laced and loaded with weight they roll along fine..

Really? Could you please add your experience by voting in this poll? I'm very keen to understand how/why something that starts out by shaking violently -mysteriously smooths out by simply lacing a rim to it, mounting a tire then riding it... bizarro.

I have 50 of these c-lyte motors on the way, i'm curious to find out how many of them have the " wobble " .....

I'm interested to know as well. It's been a while since you ordered those, huh? Are they being drop-shipped? Please, keep us posted.


-S

 

[Ypedal]

Ship is supposed to leave next week for Halifax !!!!! I'm gonna be like a kid in a candy store !

I'll get you some pictures tonight if you want !.. I have gigs of pictures .. i snap a few everytime i dive into anything e-bike related for my site..

I would really like to see a video of this hopping you speak of.. do you have the means to make one

Remember you are holding a 25 lbs spinning mass in a bench vice.. at a certain speed , any small imballance will create a vibration that can seem quite drastic...

Once laced up in a rim.. with an inflated tire.. on the bike with your weight on top of the axle and a rough road surface... this might not be very noticable at all... but i have not personally seen your motor run.. so i'm onlyt speculating here..

When i bolted up my 5304 on the front froks of a cheap Peugot bike upside down and spun it up at 48v.. it make the fork wobble a bit front to back at top speed...... but on the road she's smooth as can be expected.

I really would like to see it in motion !!!

 

[Lowell]

Mount up the tire, and balance just like a car/motorcycle wheel. I don't remember how many grams mine took to balance, but it runs smooth as glass at 99km/h where the DrainBrain speed limiter kicks in. Without proper balancing it will almost certainly shake at speed.

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

.. I really would like to see it in motion !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7AwKUVwwcg ..here 'tis.

Lowell- Good advice, thanks. I've used the stick on lead weights to balance normal hubs with bearings, but the ring magnet in this hub motor is quite strong and keeps the heavy side of it from resting at the bottom.

Apparently, there is some principle of physics that allows a fully built wheel with a hub motor in it to self balance by simply riding it around for a period time.

I've never heard about this until recently. I'm either going to find out what this principle is called- or we can define it ourselves.

Self-Balancing Endless-Spherism?


-S

 

[Lowell]

Actually I just balanced it by trial and error, as mounting it on an automotive wheel balancer would have taken more time. I marked off 8 spots on the rim, and then taped a weight on a spoke. Spinning the hub up to full speed I noted the imbalance, and then moved the weight to the next spot. Once you find the spot with the least shake, adjust the mass until your hub spins nice and smooth.

 

[xyster]

Interesting video. If you can't get it to balance, add some blades and it'd make a great fan for summer.

 

[Ypedal]

Thanks for the video !!!

Hmm... i'm heading out for a bite at rotten-ronnies, but once i get back i'll snap a vid of my 5304 ....

That motor is mounted way up high on the pole.. the acceleration seems to create a riple effect making it swing like that.. but it's not as bad as i had imagined initially... BRB...

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

Check this out.. the display is programmable!

http://www.ianpaterson.org/projects/spokepov20050704/gallery/index.htm

It's too bad that this spoke Persistance Of Vision (POV) printed circuit board is so large, because I would sure like to use one of them to balance this wheel out.

Ladyada's design (the original) is a bit easier to build, and more compact..
http://www.ladyada.net/make/spokepov/
..but still a little too long to fit between the motor and rim, dang.


-S

 

[TylerDurden]

Ladyada's design (the original) is a bit easier to build, and more compact..
http://www.ladyada.net/make/spokepov/
..but still a little too long to fit between the motor and rim, dang.

If you REALLY want to use it, might you be able to extend the leads of the LEDs with as much wire as you want, then stagger the LEDs or otherwise arrange them to fit your wheel...?

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

Thanks for bringing that up TD. I went back to her site looking for any possible way to mod this kit so that it would fit my spokes. I found that there is literally a hack..

http://www.ladyada.net/make/spokepov/makeprep.html

..and if that's still too long, the MiniPOV3 would definitely fit. Not as much resolution -but still programmable and very cool.

http://www.ladyada.net/make/minipov3/parts.html

I REALLY like that one of these kits would serve multiple useful functions:

1- Weight to balance the wheel.
2- Added safety from side lighting (the WTF factor).
3- The ability to express myself without having to be heard.


-S

 

[Ypedal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=griiXLuoHAo

This is my 5304 at 48v.. sound is not timed corectly for some reason.. plays fine from the original AVI, but once loaded to youtube there is a delay..

This hub has a wobble to it, but not noticable when on the road.. at 50 + mph it might be another story mind you.. but the rim is true as far as the brake pads go, needs a new tire... badly..

 

[xyster]

I REALLY like that one of these kits would serve multiple useful functions:

1- Weight to balance the wheel.
2- Added safety from side lighting (the WTF factor).
3- The ability to express myself without having to be heard.

4- Ability to make e-bike money by selling flashy advertising space.

 

[xyster]

This is my 5304 at 48v.. sound is not timed corectly for some reason.. plays fine from the original AVI, but once loaded to youtube there is a delay..

Yah, that's weird the audio track didn't sync. Nice hand, btw, very petite, smooth, without noticeable scars, hairs, warts or other blemishes -- sure you're a dude? :lol:
Maybe the condition's from never seeing the sun up there in Canada.

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

This is my 5304 at 48v..

Thanks for posting this, Ypedal! I watched really closely for the hub wobble, but didn't see anything disconcerting. Your wheel spins-up nice and smoothly, and the bike wasn't dancing around at all.

When you are ready to change that tire, it would be a good time to try this experiment.. if you would, please?

- 1st, after you have removed the tire and tube, mount it -sans rubber- back in the fork and shoot a little video of the spin test.

- 2nd, once the new tire has been mounted to the rim, and the wheel mounted in the fork.. spin it up and shoot a little more video.

- 3rd, after you have cycled through your packs' charge (and re-charged them), flip the bike over and shoot one last video of the wheel spinning through its' range.

Once documented, comparing each of these videos along with your observations could very well reveal a pattern.


Thanks again, -S

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

4- Ability to make e-bike money by selling flashy advertising space.

Oooo.. good one, Xyster! Gots to pay for the toys somehow. I'll definitely be adding #4 to my list.



-S

 

[recumbent]

Placing a dial indicator against a cover of a motor only tells you the stamping press or casting is imperfect which is normal. I'm sure the motors are not perfect either but the cover is the last place to look. Be fair to the manufacturer. However they still seem to bounce around some, don't they. The "Bionx" seems perfectly true.

 

[BiGH]

would it be possible to set this in a lathe of some sort to make the side plates more ballanced?

 

[Mark_A_W]

Looking at that video, I don't think there's anything wrong really with the motor at all.

It's completely undamped in that condition.

Add a rim and tyre and I think it will be much better - even then my motor is not perfect at the freewheel speed (a lot lower I admit).

Add the bike and rider weight and I think it will completely unnoticable.

If it is a problem then, balance it like Lowell suggested.

 

[echoppershop]

I've never had a problem with the Phoenix motor. I've run it at 36V, 48V, 60V, and 72V, using both 20A and 35A controllers without experiencing any problems.... power delivery has always been pretty smooth for me.... a little noisy through part of the powerband, but no shakes or wobbles to speak of.

 

[TylerDurden]

Hi girlfriend! Nice to see you back!

I luv the chopper on your homepage! I'm thinkin you didn't get permission from AJ, tho.

A.J. Duran's all-new chopper bike has a devilish look that's so extreme, it's almost scary. Forged in the flames of Gilroy, California, is this 2004 Micargi frame which was bent, twisted and contorted in all ways evil and what emerged from the ashen and sooted floor was much more than expected. The only question is will you bow down when he comes riding your way...?

Before you know it, the bike will have you hooked from wheel to wheel. The tires are 26-inch hoops with flame-throwing aluminum rims precision machined by Mike Lewis at Arizona Quick Speed. What will more than likely steal your attention is the long triple-tree, 32-inch extended fork tubes and the trick springer suspension system made by Gary Silva at 3G Bikes in El Segundo, California. We try to find likeness in shapes and what stood out is the top tree clamp which reminds us of a moosehead only brushed in aluminum. In turn, that leads us to the custom bent handlebars with fish scale grips which are nice and wide for u-turns after you've spotted that cool ice cream truck.

Designed by the eye, A.J. has always built bikes with his dad ever since he was a small tyke so graduating from pedals to pistons (as in Harley-style motorcycles) was no hard task. However, it was the knowledge of custom chopper fabrication that led him to apply some motorcycle principles to the latest trend in bad moto-bicycling. The front head tube is raked 42 degrees, the down tube was stretched and arched 5 inches (home-bent by A.J. with a tube bender) basically until it fit to the crank housing. Remember, this frame is based off an excellent Dyno design which is where A.J. began his two-wheel nightmare.

Doesn't run on gas? This question almost always gets tossed at A.J. The tank is fiberglass (and lengthened like a long teardrop) molded over and separated from a real Harley Sportster fuel tank. Note how the tank and top bar (which is under the tank) sweeps down to the serpent-skin seat. The bike also features what seems to be a motor-mount, however, it's for the welded skull and chain brake lever... you can see a stroke of darkness and genius all in one bike.

Looking for more diabolical details? The rear quarter fender (taken from a Triumph motorcycle) is part of the seat and it attaches to a pointed chrome sissy bar. Other hot tricks that got us fired up were skull-cut sprocket, chrome twisted pedals and super-cool Shimano Deore rear disc brake. Now a bike like this may melt your wallet but look at the vicious results. Lending a nasty pitchfork or two were Adolfo Arias for the flaming candy apple red paint job which suits satan's muraled angels just fine. A.J. and friend Pete Salazar maintained bodywork while Barrios Upholstery (San Martin, California) skinned the seat. Polished parts will get you looks and The Best Chrome (San Martin) dipped everything including the teardrop headlight.

Seriously though, A.J.'s not a triple six kind of guy, but instead enjoys building themed bicycles as he learned from his late cousin James Duran. The talent and skill for building top motorcycles and chopper bicycles lives and breathes in A.J. and he gratefully thanks two families, his own and the Uce Car Club.

http://www.lowriderbike.com/bike_features/05winlrb_custom_chopper_bicycle_hells_belle/