Duct Tape E-Bay Lifepo4s???

Hi all
there are enough of us that still want more packs why don't the next time a pack comes up one of us wants we post what we are bidding on and how much was bid, then we can all look and see what ebay is calling each of us, see if it is the same ?***? each time or does it change. We might be able to flush out the creep that is bumping up the prices :evil:
 
If anyone wants to work out the pack sizes, then I can confirm that the cells in these packs are 135mm tall, 100mm wide and 4mm thick. The connections are on the top (the 135mm dimension) and add a few mm. The thickness of the cells is increased slightly in the packs by tape and the foam rubber used on the top, so if you use 5mm as the cell thickness it allows you to work out the thickness of the stack reasonably accurately.

Each cell is 4.95 Ah, 3.2V nominal so a 10Ah pack uses double cell modules, a 15Ah pack uses triple cell modules and a 20Ah pack uses quadruple cell modules. A double cell, 10Ah module measures 135mm x 100mm x 10mm, approximately.

The 12 way BMS circuit board is 115mm long, 70mm wide (including the connector) and about 10mm thick. A 48V board will be a bit longer I expect. Wrapped in it's heat shrink sleeve it measures maybe 12mm thick. This board will typically be taped to one end of the pack, so increasing one of the dimensions by about 10mm to 12mm.

The dimensions Li Ping quotes are conservative. He lists the 36V 10Ah pack as 150mm x 100mm x 150mm. In actual fact it measures about 140mm tall, 100mm wide and 145mm long overall, as it arrives, all wrapped in duct tape.

With a bit of guesswork you can pretty much predict the possible dimensions for any pack from the above.

On a separate topic, I put my pack through it's first long charge, as recommended in the instructions from Li Ping, and carefully monitored the voltage of each cell towards the end of the balancing process, during the phase when the charger is cutting in and out every minute or two. The charge process is interesting, as the balancing system causes the pack to slightly discharge, then recharge, quite a few times towards the end. I think that what the BMS does is to cut off the charge when a cell reaches the 3.66V point, then discharge the highest cell down to match the lowest cell, then restart the charge and repeat the process until all the cells are at 3.66V. The cell voltages were all spot-on 3.66 volts at the end of the charge process, so I'm reasonably certain that it's a pretty good BMS in terms of getting the most from the cells, and not a crude system as suggested elsewhere on here. I was seriously thinking of getting one of the excellent BMS boards from Gary Goodrum, but having monitored the way that the standard BMS works I think I'll stick with it, as it seems better than I expected it to be.

Overall, I think that these packs offer really excellent value, if we accept that they may not be as long-lasting or reliable as the more expensive batteries. Given that a few people on here seem to end up doing as I did with my NiMH packs, and having a incident due to "brain fade" that causes early battery failure, I'd rather do something daft with a cheap Chinese LiFePO4 pack than a more expensive, but better quality, pack.

Jeremy
 
albie said:
a bit ambigious there fechter...

what is this high current diode you speak of as i'm really interested to check this out.

In series, put a diode across each pack, but in the non-conducting direction.
When one BMS trips, the total pack voltage will be cut in half to the controller (that will immediately reduce current and the diode across the tripped pack will conduct, preventing the full series voltage from blowing the BMS.

This approach should work with any battery with internal BMS, like DeWalts, duct-tape, Ping, etc.

Since the diode is only conducting when the pack is tripped, it does not need to be a Schottkey or low loss type. It just needs to have a current rating that exceeds the BMS trip point, and have a voltage rating that exceeds one battery's voltage.
 
Hi all,

Today is weekend and I could spare some time to surf here. But I found something misunderstood.

First, we don't care how high the final price of each battery on ebay will be. We list 9 batteries of our stock per week for ebay auction. Please pay attention, only 9. They are all our standard products, 24v10ah,15ah,20ah, 36v10ah,15ah,20ah, 48v10ah,15ah,20ah. Some time there will be more but in different sizes. The starting prices of them is much lower than our retail price. That's why we only list 9 every week. You could look our aution items as advertisement. This is to show all our products and attract eyes. We have much more transactions direct through PayPal, also bulk sale through bank transfer, MUCH MORE. We don't care if we can earn 50usd or 100usd more on these auctions.

I think I haven't been so stupid to hire a shill for only 50 or 100 bucks. We have worked hard always and promised immediate shipping on ebay. I think many guys here have bought our batteries, not only on ebay, but also direct through PayPal. You could see what and how we are doing. We are confident we must be the best in fast shipping and good service among the ebay sellers who are selling duct tape packs. Do you guys know how much we have paid for that? We have paid much much more than other sellers. Would we care 50 or 100 bucks more than what we have paid?

The e***e is from CANADA. He/She used to want 24v20ah, but changed mind to 48v20ah. That's too simple. And the person who finanlly won the auction actually didn't pay for 320usd for the 24v20ah. Because we had already made deal at a fair price before e***e cancel his bid. Sorry I cannot tell you the username of e***e, because he hide his username we should regard this. I think you will see it if he win the 48v20ah. BTW, I found e***e also have bid 24v20ah of anna.

Today weekend I could have slept earlier than usual. But after I read this thread, I cannot go to sleep and it's 4:00am now. That's not only about our team, but about my personality. I think I should stand out to say something, although I was not willing to say much here before. Because I think we just need to do our best, not say our best. It should be you that say how good we are after trying our products and services.

BTW, if we have plenty of stock, we will list buy it now items on ebay or send some second chance offer. But if you don't see any buy it now item in our ebay store, that means we won't send any second chance offer, only 9 per week sold on ebay.

If you have any questions and concerns, please send email to me, pingping227@hotmail.com

Best regards,

Ping
 
Ping,

Thanks for taking the time to post here, and for being so open and honest.

Although some here will always criticise, I believe that you are meeting a real market need with an honest product at a fair price.

I wish you the very best for your business.

Jeremy
 
Jeremy Harris said:
If anyone wants to work out the pack sizes, then I can confirm that the cells in these packs are 135mm tall, 100mm wide and 4mm thick.

Thanks for that. Now I can work out what I can fit in a frame :D.
 
Jeremy Harris said:
On a separate topic, I put my pack through it's first long charge, as recommended in the instructions from Li Ping, and carefully monitored the voltage of each cell towards the end of the balancing process, during the phase when the charger is cutting in and out every minute or two. The charge process is interesting, as the balancing system causes the pack to slightly discharge, then recharge, quite a few times towards the end. I think that what the BMS does is to cut off the charge when a cell reaches the 3.66V point, then discharge the highest cell down to match the lowest cell, then restart the charge and repeat the process until all the cells are at 3.66V. The cell voltages were all spot-on 3.66 volts at the end of the charge process, so I'm reasonably certain that it's a pretty good BMS in terms of getting the most from the cells, and not a crude system as suggested elsewhere on here. I was seriously thinking of getting one of the excellent BMS boards from Gary Goodrum, but having monitored the way that the standard BMS works I think I'll stick with it, as it seems better than I expected it to be.

That is good that this BMS is at least doing the stat-stop method of trying to get the cells to balance. This is all well and good as long as the cells are new, and pretty closely matched in capacity, internal resistance and thermal characteristics. With a123 cells, they almost always start out very closely matched, especially ones out of the same DeWalt packs. Over time, however, they tend to drift apart in what their fully charged "resting" voltages are, which is is what the cells are at when you run the pack for about ten seconds with a light load. What you measure fresh off the charger is pretty meanilngless, as what you are seeing is a surfac charge that build up across the anode/cathode.

These difference build up, I believe, mainly due to where the cells are in the pack construction. Inside cells run hotter and so they tend to "age" a bit quicker than the ones towards the outside of a pack. I've seen this happen with just about every pack I've put together of a123 cells, and the number of cells I've used is in the hundreds.The differences end up being anywhere from 2-4%. This means that even with cells that are individually charged with the same single-cell charger can end up with different fully charged resting voltages and the differences between the lower and upper values in packs can be as high as 4%. With LiFeBatt cells, I don't yet have as much experience, but the differences are less, down in the 1-2% range. This may be because the way LiFeBatt cells are mounted in packs the cells don't touch so the temp differences are probably less. In any case, I will be very much surprised if these "duct tape" prismatic cells don't also exhibit this sort of capacity/internal resistance drift over time, and end up with even higher differences.

The problem with a balancing scheme on a pack with cells that have differences is that it always pulls down the level of the higher cells to the lowest common denominator, so the pack never really gets full. Actually the stronger cells get full but are then dragged down to the lower levels. The differences that I've seen with a123-based packs is the reason I went with the individual cell charger approach. The problem is that you have to bring out a bunch of wires from the pack, which is a pain. When Bob and I first started talking about dong a full BMS, I said a design goal for the charger portion was to allow each cell to get to its own 100% level, at its own pace, but we still wanted to be able to charge a pack at higher rates (4-8A...). The shunt-based approach we are using meets those goals. You will be able to charge at whatever rate you charger or regulated supply can put out and when the cells get alomst full, the current is internally throttled back to about 1A and each cell is allowed to get to its own 100% level in however long it takes. Once all the cells are at this point, the charger is shut off.

-- Gary
 
Link,

If you want to build up a custom pack, then there are a couple of other things that might help. I split my 36V 10Ah pack in half, because I want to fit it in a discreet location under the seat of my 'bent. Here's what I found.

The pouch cells have small printed circuit board inter connectors soldered on top. These little circuit boards have slots to accept the foil terminals from the pouch cells, and act as both connectors and insulators (they are fitted copper side up on the top of the pack). Unsoldering the cell connections is delicate work, as I get the feeling that the pouch cell foil strip terminals might be a bit delicate, so care is needed to dismantle a pack. Ping kindly offered to build me a custom pack (but being impatient I opted to just go for one off ebay and do a bit of DIY), so that may be the best way to go if you don't want to risk damaging a cell or two in stripping a pack apart.

One worthwhile improvement to these packs might be to secure the interconnecting PCBs with some hot melt glue. I've done this on my pack and there's no doubt that the BMS wires etc are all now firmly secured against possible vibration damage.

The other thing worth noting is that all the cell interconnects need to be of pretty equal resistance, as far as I'm aware, to ensure that the BMS works properly, which may impose some limitations on a multi pack, distributed type format.

Sorry if this stuff is teaching Granny, etc.

Jeremy
 
Ping lives. He's a good one, I had a question about the charge voltage and he answered it quickly. I'd recommend his battery's and him to everyone.

My 48V15ah pack moves my stealth along just fine. (see a few pages back)
 
I knew most of that already, but thanks for the bit about the PCBs. I thought I would have to do that myself, so that saves me some trouble.

I would have asked for a custom pack, but I want it to be an odd shape. Namely, a thin triangle (though it might turn out more like an "L"). I want to fit it in a frame (along with the controller) without altering the profile of the bike. Super stealthy 8).

Hot glue FTW.
 
ping said:
Today weekend I could have slept earlier than usual. But after I read this thread, I cannot go to sleep and it's 4:00am now. That's not only about our team, but about my personality. I think I should stand out to say something, although I was not willing to say much here before. Because I think we just need to do our best, not say our best. It should be you that say how good we are after trying our products and services.

Ping
Get some sleep ping, you've earned it! I'm very well satisfied with your products. I've been using mine for over a week and all is well. It sits on my desk now slowly getting a balance charge. I used it this morning to commute to work (50 minutes into high winds, whew!) and at lunch again to ride another 35minutes to get lunch and back, and will use again to go home (45 minutes with a tail wind :lol: ). This was impossible with 4 SLA batteries, but yours work so well! I can ride and ride and ride :D . So, get some sleep knowing that for every 1 person throwing mud, there are many satisfied with your great products.

Mike Schwab
Texas
 
hi Ping
like most of us I think your packs and service are great. maybe this e***e is competition trying to drive your prices up to get you som bad press. A bit underhand if you ask me I had a look at the stats on this guy on ebay he seams to be targeting you.

enough on e***e, Ping keep up the good work we all appreciate your work.
 
Ping I for one apologize. I myself have no reason to doubt anything that you have said. This e***e bidder is the first time I have been exposed to anonymous bidders, and I have been eBaying for a very long time. From my own experience your product was delivered in a very and I mean very fast time (5 days). The product delivered was exactly as described and I am looking forward to many miles from the battery pack.

If I have cost you sleep Ping I am sorry. I'll try not to jump to conclusions in the future.
 
Hello Everyone, I, as many others, have been watching how this discussion has been going for quite a while now, and have decided to try one of these.

geoff57 said:
maybe this e***e is competition trying to drive your prices up to get you som bad press.
ping said:
Sorry I cannot tell you the username of e***e, because he hide his username we should regard this.

To clear the fog, e***e is "karthage". I gave him my 48V 20Ah today from Ana in hopes of him being satisfied and to stop overbidding :). Has anyone had success with new journey?
 
green-atoms said:
To clear the fog, e***e is "karthage". I gave him my 48V 20Ah today from Ana in hopes of him being satisfied and to stop overbidding :). Has anyone had success with new journey?

Good. Now that he got what he wanted, hopefully he will stop pissing in the soup.

I think we can all benefit from calming down a bit ... some of our pointless panicking has smeared Ping's good name, given Anna a lot of needless grief with Paypal.
 
I had my first distance test today, went 9 miles cruising at about 15 most the time, then went up a hill and the BMS was severely limiting the amps. There was definately less than 35 limiter. I think the batteries just needed to cool down a sec because I got off and pushed it and was back to normal soon enough. The hill was massively steep + long too. :mrgreen:
 
Hi all
I'm still running in the battery on the rolling road, so far this is my third discharge recharge cycle, details of the first (full discharge) was posted earlyer the second was used to calibrate my Cycle Analyist(half discharge) third (full discharge).

I am using a medusa power analyzer pro as well as the cycle analyist some readings are common on both the discharge was 20.339 Ah on the PA pro, it was then transfered to the charging cable with an external power supply pluged in to hold the information.The PA pro is designed to register charging as well by leaving the battery on the same side of the PApro and the charger where the controller/motor would be, it then registers the values in negitive values ,-watts,-amps, the voltage the battery is at and the Amp Hrs slowly starts to reduce.
After an hour the reading was 18.5Ah when the charge had finished the reading was -0.64 Ah, this is proof that batterys need running in.

I will keep you up to date with the progress my first road test should be today or tomorrow.
 
Li Ping is awesome... Don't even screw around with the auctions.
Just send him an email with what you want and he will give you a fair price.
pingping227@hotmail.com

I told him I was in no rush for my 48v20ah, and still had the pack on my door step in just over a week.
Shipping from within the US takes longer than that.

Got my bike running and everything seems to run fine.
The idiots at radio shack couldn't figure out what the connector was on the end of the charger [Male mini xlr I think]
so I just cut it off and soldered on my own connector.

The dorks at Radio Shack were making comments about the charger being foreign because it had chineese writing all over it.
I challenged them to show me something in the store that wasnt made in china. LOL they came up empty handed.
 
They aren't mini-XLRs just more compact than normal. Radio Shack doesn't carry these. However, Parts Express does sell some nice Neutrik compact XLRs for $2.44-$2.72 a piece. And the shipping is very reasonable via US Postal First-Class Mail. I redid all of mine, and bought a few extras.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?FILTER=xlr+cable+mount+neutrik&FTR=xlr+cable+mount+neutrik&search_type=main&WebPage_ID=3
 
Just a point on those charging plugs. I removed mine as well, and replaced it with an RCA type plug, to match the wiring harness I used from my old SLA pack. After all, its only charging at 2A, so heat is no issue. I bought a gold coloured plug, to differentiate it from my other chargers.
Just on another issue on chargers, has anyone tried to charge with their SLA charger? Some say you can, and some say you can't.
I have a high quality SLA charger that has a 2 or 3 stage charger (Can't remember which). Guess the critical stage is the balancing at the end. But if the balancing is handled by the BMS, then a 'good SLA charger would work?
If it does, then I could have one charger at work and one at home!
 
I received my 48V 20AH battery from anna today. Never did get a tracking number. The battery was very well packaged in a thick foam shell. :D . Unfortunantly, the charger is a 36V unit. :( .

I have placed a bid on anna's current 48V 20AH battery. I want to be able to run both batteries in parallel in the trike/trailer. :D
 
After about 2 weeks of use, my pack has finally balanced! It used to charge, then balance charge for hours and hours. Today however, it charged up in about 3hours, then balance charged for about 20 minutes and that was it :!: Now it's been sitting for about 4 hours with the green light on steady. No further balancing. Maybe now I've got full capacity!! I can't wait for tonight's ride home. :wink:
 
Rassy said:
I received my 48V 20AH battery from anna today. Never did get a tracking number. The battery was very well packaged in a thick foam shell. :D . Unfortunantly, the charger is a 36V unit. :( .

I have placed a bid on anna's current 48V 20AH battery. I want to be able to run both batteries in parallel in the trike/trailer. :D


So that was about 2 weeks then. Too bad about the charger. This is the second time I heard someone got the wrong charger from anna.
I got a email two days ago from New Journey saying my battery was finsihed and was testing. he said it will ship this week and to please wait, so I'm hoping to see it sometime next week.

In the meantime, I got a Watt's Up meter and hooked it up. According to the meter, I'm using an average 3aH each way on my 7.5 mile commute. I'm running SLA now, with 2400 miles on them so far, and they are getting tired. They are rated 12AH, but seem used up after only 3AH, so they are ready for replacement. This new battery couldn't come sooner. I ordered a 36V 20AH. That should easily give me 2 roundtrips per charge. I'm so looking forward to this.
 
zzoing said:
basically you just get it, you follow the instructions on the instruction sheet if they have one, check it looks very intact when it arrives, the hard bit for a beginner is arranging the plugs for the charger which involves three wires of different colours and choosing the right plugs, otherwise it's just lots of little things you have to gain experience of, be very careful with the terminals of the battery, all the high-power wiring, make a decent container, be cautious with how much it charges and discharges so you know the levels and so on. then you will be up there with us battlewisened, heroic, veteran, battery people:)
Nice RPG launcher on your avatar! Do you use that as regen braking? - the recoil when you fire one must be awesome!
:lol:
 
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