Dutch Electric Tadpole trike

[Amonk]

I was surfing around today and stumbled across this.I want one bad
http://drymer.nl/
This link has a short video of the trike in action.

 

[spinningmagnets]

pic...

 

[docnjoj]

WOW!
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

$5000 for the leisure and about $9000 for the velo plus shipping. Not crazy!
otherDoc

 

[Canis Lupus]

Wow, it leans like a two wheeler.

 

[Amonk]

It kinda reminds me of a Piaggio MP3,but much cooler.

 

[John in CR]

Hurray, finally a leaning tadpole I really want to copy. Nice height for visibility...nice clean simple form. I take it that the primary advantage of 2 wheels up front in a leaner is the extra traction during turning. Is that correct?

 

[ebent]

It is about center of gravity. All the other tadpoles that don't lean with enough speed on a turn a front wheel lifts. And just a little bit more and it is ugly. So the dutch unit will go a lot faster before it rolls.

ebent

 

[Canis Lupus]

Hurray, finally a leaning tadpole I really want to copy. Nice height for visibility...nice clean simple form. I take it that the primary advantage of 2 wheels up front in a leaner is the extra traction during turning. Is that correct?

If so, then the ability just to stand up by itself wouldn't be far behind. I would like to see it designed more low to the ground with a lower centre of gravity, to give it sportier look and feel. Being that far upright does have advantages in traffic, however, considering visibility both ways.

I'm not sure how complex the technology is enabling it to lean, or how much weight it adds, but if it could be incorporated into other powerless trikes, I see it as a definite plus, allowing for a narrower wheel base at the front also.

Does anybody know its weight in either version? I can't imagine pedaling it would be anywhere near as effective as a usual tadpole cycling trike. The pedal inclusion might be there more for legalities and show rather than serving any practical purpose.

 

[John in CR]

Canis,

I understand the benefit of a leaner that self balances, because you don't have to put your feet down, and enclosing it becomes a real possibility. I understand that a tadpole has the potential of a closer to ideal teardrop aero shape than a delta. Assuming a leaner, does a tadpole have an advantage over a delta? My guess is only in traction for turns. Also, is there enough gain there to outweigh the benefit of a single track on 2 wheels assuming less than perfect roads?

 

[ebent]

John,
You pose a complicated question. A lot of variables. So I will give an answer in a more simple example. Take a tadpole and delta with no suspension. The delta in most cases will tip over much easier. Tapole configurations are more sporty. Delta's are more cruiser, utility type vehicle. This is a generality. There are exceptions. In addition, comparing suspended trikes one must consider the quality of the suspensions. Perhaps a well suspended delta could match or be better than a poorly suspended tadpole.

In comparison to 2 wheels, trikes are more comfortable. Trikes have more weight. 2 wheels are faster up hill because you can stand on the pedals. Trikes are faster downhill due to air resistance. Even though we have assist, if max speed is the quest go 2 wheels. If going fast but not the fastest with comfort go trike. Unless you are racing, with these great batteries and motors, is fast fast enough?

Better yet in a perfect world why not have one of each? I am just a beginner at all this eassist stuff and I am trying to dial in a new build on a tadpole that I have riden for 5 years. I have seen some beautiful works of art on this board on 2 wheels.

ebent

 

[John in CR]

ebent,

Thanks, but you did kind of dance around the question. I guess posed differently, did Piaggio build the MP3 just for people not to have to put their feet down at stop lights and have better stability crossing railroad tracks?

 

[MitchJi]

Hi John,

Thanks, but you did kind of dance around the question. I guess posed differently, did Piaggio build the MP3 just for people not to have to put their feet down at stop lights and have better stability crossing railroad tracks?

http://www.tiltingmotorworks.com/default.asp
http://www.tiltingmotorworks.com/about.html

BACKGROUND

Tilting Motor Works began with the idea of creating a faster, safer and more stable motorcycle. I wanted to design and build a vehicle that would outperform both motorcycles and cars. The known drawback to motorcycles is that if the front tire loses traction the bike will go down. With two wheels up front, you have greatly increased your front end traction. You have also greatly increased the braking power and cornering capability. I also wanted to lower the center of gravity of the vehicle as compared to a motorcycle by dropping the rider down and behind the engine. I have also moved the gas tank beneath the seat which is being done on some current model high performance bikes. Lowering the center of gravity allows quicker flicking between corners and increases stability. The one thing about cornering in performance cars such as my Porsche 911 is that the driver is always thrown toward the outside of the corner. I much prefer the cornering feeling of a motorcycle where you are being pushed down into your seat as you go into a corner hard.

The concept of a tilting three wheeler has been around for many years and several attempts have been made to produce such vehicles but none have appeared to have been too successful.

My first decision was whether to go with two wheels in front or with two wheels in the rear. Having two wheels in the rear does nothing to improve the stability of the vehicle and despite the current market of three wheeled Gold Wings, no one advertises them as performance vehicles. The stability is so poor with the one forward wheel and two rear wheel design that major motorcycle manufactures stopped production of the three wheeled ATV in 1987 after a lawsuit by the United States Justice Department alleged that the manufacturers were in violation of the Consumer Product Safety Act. My decision to go with two wheels up front was fairly easy.

The next decision was to decide how many wheels I wanted to have tilt. I decided to go with all wheels tilting to obtain the maximum benefit of the tilting concept.

The final decision was how to control of the vehicle. I wanted to keep the design as simple as possible to keep production costs down and reduce any system complexity. There were two options for the leaning. One is to have the vehicle free lean such as a motorcycle or a forced lean system which uses hydraulics or servos.

The lastest production prototype was finished in September 2007 and was built on a Yamaha V-Max frame.

http://www.tiltingmotorworks.com/sitemap.html

October 2008: Harley Road King Conversion Begins

I have busy over the last several months working on, riding and improving the Vmax. I now have put over 4,000 miles testing the Vmax in all weather conditions including riding it through a slushy rain storm and it has performed beautifully. I have received a tremendous amount of positive response to what I am working on and I am starting the process to produce the kits and make them available for sale beginning in 2009. It is taking longer than anticipated because I am completely redesigning the parts for production in SolidWorks. I just picked up the finished spindles and spacers. I will be picking up the new hubs by the end of the week. The redesign of the A-arms is about finished and we should begin production on those in the next few weeks. I am building my next kit on my 2001 Harley Road King I just purchased. The bike only had 3700 miles on it when I picked it up.

Besides redesigning the hubs and a-arms I have been busy with my tilt lock system which is now working on the Vmax in manual mode. As I come to a stop, I flick a switch and the tilt is locked up and I do not have to put my feet down. It is really nice to have in heavy traffic. I am working on automating the process to be speed controled. My first automating system was analog and did not allow much adjustability so I scrapped it. I have decided to go digital for the tilt lock control brain and now have the circuit board done and working. The software is being custom designed and will allow me to adjust my engage/disengage speeds. I am using a quadrature hall effect sensor which will sense both forward and reverse direction.

A little more info here (both his site and the kneeslider article have quite a bit more information than I quoted above):
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/11/20/tilting-v-max-trike-by-tilting-motor-works/

 

[flip_normal]

Nice trike, that Drymer. Unfortunately there appears to be no front suspension, the front shocks seem to be there for self leveling only.View attachment 1

 

[zenon]

This trike looks cool and it got its advantages leaning design and narrow wheel base.

My main concern is safety issue because i like speed not crazy speed .

The video shows maybe 25-30km/hr top which any non-suspended trike could match the handling performance and beyond.
Look scary to ride it at high speed 50km/hr plus it would cause major injury seating high and steering system out front during wipe out compare to most tadpole design being lower to the ground which would simply tip and skid sideway while stuck to the seat and holding the steering bar (experienced on my ride at 50km/hr).

 

[docnjoj]

It appears from the last leaning photo that the coil is not bottomed out in the turn, thus leading me to believe that the inside suspension still has some travel left. It would just make sense to allow the suspension to actually work during cornering.
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Hmmmmm.......flip_normal, you may be right. I don't see and pivots on the upper A arms!
otherDoc

 

[zenon]

Nice trike, that Drymer. Unfortunately there appears to be no front suspension, the front shocks seem to be there for self leveling only.View attachment 1

I believe you are correct :wink:

Just food for thoughts

The upper and lower arms are straight and only have 3 pivot point, center pivot on the frame for leaning and pivot on each end for kingpin role. The two shocks are used to keep the frame self leveled.

The top rod that connects the left and right shocks somehow is coupled with the tie rods and part of the steering, it then forces the lower shocks pivot to the lower arm to change the distance with respect to the upper arm and the frame creating the leaning process when turning.

 

[docnjoj]

It could still have some spring/shock action, but as a solid axle rather than independent suspension as long as there is some travel left on the inside wheel. IMHO
otherDoc

 

[zenon]

It could still have some spring/shock action, but as a solid axle rather than independent suspension as long as there is some travel left on the inside wheel. IMHO
otherDoc

Hi Docnjoj,


You are correct in fact in any steering position there will be solid axle action.

Sometimes today's high tech independent suspension systems folds over our eye from the very basic system.
My expectation of this trike systems is very high tech.
Thanks for pointing that out it fooled me.

I Guess their is still a lot of antique tractors kicking around in Holland :wink:

Cheer's

Zenon

 

[Canis Lupus]

Just a little diversion in the way of front suspension. ICE have included front suspension in their new models this year, including a 700cc rear wheel version which has suspension all round. It doesn't lean, but it is something.




Pity they didn't do it 12 months ago when I purchased.

 

[amberwolf]

Depending on any frame differences from yours, it looks like you could retrofit that to any similar frame.

 

[Canis Lupus]

Depending on any frame differences from yours, it looks like you could retrofit that to any similar frame.

I emailed them about that. They said come spring or summer they will have a retrofit kit available. Depends on the cost, weight and performance. The Pantour suspension hubs might offer a better solution, but I'd have to switch to disc brakes because I have drum.

PS. Greetings fellow wolf of a different colour.

 

[zenon]

The Pantour suspension hubs might offer a better solution, but I'd have to switch to disc brakes because I have drum.

ICE have included front suspension in their new models this year

Hi Canis Lupus

A friend talk to a local vendor about the Pantour suspension hub for his Catrike expedition. They don't recommend it because the pad will scrub with disk during suspension if brake is applied. Check pic below


Besides both of those suspension probably travel at 3/4 to 1 inch max. A high profile tire at 28 psi would probably do same job.

Also I believe your Ice trike is equip with a Sturmey Archer drums which totally bullet proof performance.

Zenon

 

[Canis Lupus]

Hi Canis Lupus

A friend talk to a local vendor about the Pantour suspension hub for his Catrike expedition. They don't recommend it because the pad will scrub with disk during suspension if brake is applied. Check pic below


Besides both of those suspension probably travel at 3/4 to 1 inch max. A high profile tire at 28 psi would probably do same job.

Also I believe your Ice trike is equip with a Sturmey Archer drums which totally bullet proof performance.

Zenon

Hi Zenon, thanks for taking the trouble to reply and point out the problem. If that occurs, it would seem to be a fairly fundamental oversight by Pantour who on their page state the hubs are suitable for trikes. I might have to double check that, but it is the impression I got from looking at the page the other day. I'm afraid the image you posted left me puzzled. Maybe it needed to be larger for me to see some detail which I wasn't noticing. Does it show the disc rubbing under suspension, and why would this occur on a trike and not any other type of bike?