dogman dan
1 PW
Safe making the rules for the ES guys? Uh huh.
E-Bike Racing: 2011 World Challenge
- Thread starter Tiberius
- Start date
AussieJester
1 TW
dogman said:
Apparently so... and everyone else it seems unfortunately for safe hes banned from ES and nobody else is interested in what hes 'selling'
I'm with Luke under 70lbs with use-able pedals, want to see advancement
in this hobby not backward steps. 20kw 2 speed rc setups piled
with lipo babeee... :wink:
KiM
dogman dan
1 PW
Safe can sell all he wants but not many are buying. Over at the thread on Motored Bikes.com he had a following of one, till he insulted Thud. I was just hound dogging him to death to raise the 1000 watt limit to what people are really running, 1200 watts. BTW safes usual behaviour got that thread shut down by the moderators.
In any case, the reality is that if he and others show up at the death race next year, any rules will be made up on the spot by the riders actually racing and decided by a vote. He won't even get one vote unless he enters and runs. My vote will be for two classes. unlimited that runs in the death race, and another that has limits of 48v nominal and 20 amp controller nominal. In other words, stock ebike kit controllers on 15s lipo max. It won't be fun enough unless the bikes reach 30 mph.
In any case, the reality is that if he and others show up at the death race next year, any rules will be made up on the spot by the riders actually racing and decided by a vote. He won't even get one vote unless he enters and runs. My vote will be for two classes. unlimited that runs in the death race, and another that has limits of 48v nominal and 20 amp controller nominal. In other words, stock ebike kit controllers on 15s lipo max. It won't be fun enough unless the bikes reach 30 mph.
AussieJester
1 TW
Apparently i am meant to tell you all -->
safe said:
liveforphysics
100 TW
AussieJester said:
Yep. Lighter guys get a natural advantage in most vehicle sports. Horse racing, karts (because they get to ballast lead on the bottom of the kart to meet min weight), motocross, superbikes etc etc
Just means the bigger guys gotta be smarter
dogman dan
1 PW
Another dig at us fat old 50yr olds that still have the balls they had when 20. Safe started digging at our weights when he started waffling about actually getting on a bike and racing. I guess he realized why they call it a death race. Crowding into those corners is a contact sport.
AussieJester
1 TW
liveforphysics said:Yep. Lighter guys get a natural advantage in most vehicle sports. Horse racing, karts (because they get to ballast lead on the bottom of the kart to meet min weight), motocross, superbikes etc etc
Just means the bigger guys gotta be smarter
Exactly! best motorcycle racers in the world aren't alot over 5 foot tall and/or 60kilo If your fat and tall your shit out of luck in alot of sports, not just motor sport. A guy weighing 90kilo ain't going to go in for 125cc race bikes, he will go with something with more h.p for obvious reasons. Same with e-bike racing, larger guy will go with higher h.p setup to offset his weight disadvantage. All forms of professional motorcyle racing (im aware of) have weight limits for the bike..The 70lbs bike rule with workable pedals is definitely the right direction Luke. Limiting people to 1000watts is ridiculous i think everyone is in agreeance with that? well haha except fo Safe but he's less than nobody so no harm no foul there...
KiM
Thud
1 MW
Its true, There are weight limits imposed on racing motorcycles. (they are all minimums though to keep the factories form building too weak)
I just checked over at Motoredbikes to see where Safe had called on AJ to straighten us out......seems ol' safe is banned again overe there (?) can you spam your own threads....even if you are all alone in them?
At least he still has the "Motorized bicycle racing network" forum to point out our mistakes from.
http://www.motorizedbicycleracing.com/post?id=4775754&trail=30
I won't bother responding to the many offensive points brought up in that masterpiece.....
As of right now I am more confused than ever as to what a "real" racing e-bike should be....I guess I will build an "all pourpose" bike & hope I have the chops to ride it in any "style" event that may show up.
I was out rideing last week & managed to "TACO" my rear 24" wheel drifting on ashphalt....
I really only have a week or so to devote to Bicycle racing in 2011......so if its a world challnge we need it solidified ASAP....untill I hear diferently, my focus is on the "Death Race" in tuscon.
I just checked over at Motoredbikes to see where Safe had called on AJ to straighten us out......seems ol' safe is banned again overe there (?) can you spam your own threads....even if you are all alone in them?
At least he still has the "Motorized bicycle racing network" forum to point out our mistakes from.
http://www.motorizedbicycleracing.com/post?id=4775754&trail=30
I won't bother responding to the many offensive points brought up in that masterpiece.....
As of right now I am more confused than ever as to what a "real" racing e-bike should be....I guess I will build an "all pourpose" bike & hope I have the chops to ride it in any "style" event that may show up.
I was out rideing last week & managed to "TACO" my rear 24" wheel drifting on ashphalt....
I really only have a week or so to devote to Bicycle racing in 2011......so if its a world challnge we need it solidified ASAP....untill I hear diferently, my focus is on the "Death Race" in tuscon.
OK So I will make this simple
If you guys limit the power usage of the bikes IM OUT
If you guys make the bikes have to be lighter then something below 70lbs (like lighter then 60 lbs) IM OUT I will try for 70 but even thats pushing it!
If you guys make to many rules IM OUT
This is the firts year of this race let just make it simple and add a couple small rules for next year if needed!
I want a race to compeat in were enginuity and driver skill come togetther to win (like f1 used to be)
The only way we will find cool new ideas is to leave some rules open.
The one biggest thing you have to remember is a heavier set up has to burn more power so I will not make as many laps IN race speed right now I use my pack up in 12km!
I can make things more efficent but I will not make my bike a 1kw piece of sh&.
I REALY NEED TO KNOW THE LENTH OF THE RACE!
If this works out I will be a top contender but I need to be building this now other wise I will be like alot of people and finishing it last second and wont be able to make sure its reliable!
If you guys limit the power usage of the bikes IM OUT
If you guys make the bikes have to be lighter then something below 70lbs (like lighter then 60 lbs) IM OUT I will try for 70 but even thats pushing it!
If you guys make to many rules IM OUT
This is the firts year of this race let just make it simple and add a couple small rules for next year if needed!
I want a race to compeat in were enginuity and driver skill come togetther to win (like f1 used to be)
The only way we will find cool new ideas is to leave some rules open.
The one biggest thing you have to remember is a heavier set up has to burn more power so I will not make as many laps IN race speed right now I use my pack up in 12km!
I can make things more efficent but I will not make my bike a 1kw piece of sh&.
I REALY NEED TO KNOW THE LENTH OF THE RACE!
If this works out I will be a top contender but I need to be building this now other wise I will be like alot of people and finishing it last second and wont be able to make sure its reliable!
John in CR
100 TW
liveforphysics said:Just means the bigger guys gotta be smarter
As in get a small person to ride the bike the big guy builds. 8)
Not an option for me I want to race as bad as I want to build! I will drop another 30 lbs to make it happen!John in CR said:liveforphysics said:Just means the bigger guys gotta be smarter
As in get a small person to ride the bike the big guy builds. 8)
Thud
1 MW
The world challange race is 20km Arlo. 12.5 miles.(see OP)
LI-ghtcycle
10 MW
I lost a lot of my nerve in my early days road racing motorcycles at PIR when I face-planted a guard rail, but if business keeps up, I might see if I can't make it to the Death race, I probably won't be the fastest, but I will be one of the lightest! :wink:
Oh and my bike will be pretty light too! :lol:
Oh and my bike will be pretty light too!
:lol:
Tiberius
10 kW
Thud said:
Oh dear, oh dear,
I just had to click on the link and take a look.
You're right, Thud, best not to get involved. Its all looking a lot more encouraging over here.
Nick
fizzit
10 kW
I just want to suggest, it might be a good idea to require race bikes to have an easily accessible battery cutoff and/or automatic voltage cutoff. Not that I have anything against spectacular fires, it just probably would be bad for PR if you experienced KFP (kentucky fried person)
Edit: And possibly not allow people to charge LiPo over 4.2v, I'm not sure if this yields enough power for anyone to try it though.
Edit: And possibly not allow people to charge LiPo over 4.2v, I'm not sure if this yields enough power for anyone to try it though.
Ebike racing would be cool, but it won't ever be as big as road cycling racing or motorcycle racing. It's an efficiency sport that includes a motor- hence it is just a fringe activity at best. With road cycling, it's all about athletic performance (and efficiency is demanded). With motorcycle racing, it's all about technique and high power/speed.
The general public has essentially no interest in watching a sport that isn't the pinnacle of either athleticism, power, or skill.
Ebikes are just sooo practical - that they don't hit those psychological highs that other activities can create. Think of the thrill of going 150mph on a streetbike, the thrill of setting an athletic personal best, or outskilling an opponent at a game of baseball, tennis, and so on.
I think a lot of people who drive and love cars - they shun the idea of transporting themselves at a max of 30mph because it's boring or something like that. They love the idea that they can drive 0-60 in 6 seconds in a 'sport' car, thinking it's thrilling. Yet they are really just fooling themselves because in the end, they are still no where near the pinnacle of speed and power that motors can achieve.
I, on the other hand, love the fact that I know I can pedal my road bike faster than 99.99999% of any human. That's a lot more rewarding, even though I may only go 30mph up that hill, while a Mustang driver could do 80 up it.
The general public has essentially no interest in watching a sport that isn't the pinnacle of either athleticism, power, or skill.
Ebikes are just sooo practical - that they don't hit those psychological highs that other activities can create. Think of the thrill of going 150mph on a streetbike, the thrill of setting an athletic personal best, or outskilling an opponent at a game of baseball, tennis, and so on.
I think a lot of people who drive and love cars - they shun the idea of transporting themselves at a max of 30mph because it's boring or something like that. They love the idea that they can drive 0-60 in 6 seconds in a 'sport' car, thinking it's thrilling. Yet they are really just fooling themselves because in the end, they are still no where near the pinnacle of speed and power that motors can achieve.
I, on the other hand, love the fact that I know I can pedal my road bike faster than 99.99999% of any human. That's a lot more rewarding, even though I may only go 30mph up that hill, while a Mustang driver could do 80 up it.
johnrobholmes
10 MW
Gimme a few months, I'm totally down for this. I was planning to attend the spooky tooth, but if we get a mass of ebikes big enough I will just join our own crowd!
My thoughts:
Have it centrally located if possible, but more importantly it should be hosted within a few hours of a major airport and on private land.
A street event around ten miles sounds good, and an off road event around 20 or 30 minutes would be great too. We don't have to rent out a gokart track, but that would be a decent location if all else fails. A subdivision could be used for a short race. Pit out of vehicles, run the race, and skeedoodle. For the offroad event, some singletrack with passing spots would be the tits, but a wider trail would allow for more action I think.
Weight limits are a good idea, it puts a cap on the power and batteries that can be used. Otherwise I would think that lighter bikes will have an advantage anyway, to an extent.
I am totally up for shipping my bike where needed, or driving there if possible.
My thoughts:
Have it centrally located if possible, but more importantly it should be hosted within a few hours of a major airport and on private land.
A street event around ten miles sounds good, and an off road event around 20 or 30 minutes would be great too. We don't have to rent out a gokart track, but that would be a decent location if all else fails. A subdivision could be used for a short race. Pit out of vehicles, run the race, and skeedoodle. For the offroad event, some singletrack with passing spots would be the tits, but a wider trail would allow for more action I think.
Weight limits are a good idea, it puts a cap on the power and batteries that can be used. Otherwise I would think that lighter bikes will have an advantage anyway, to an extent.
I am totally up for shipping my bike where needed, or driving there if possible.
dogman dan
1 PW
After practicing in unbuilt subdivisions for the death race, I'll take the kart track. Hit one corner hot and hello curbing. 
On the track in Tucson, I felt fine about the possibility of overcooking a corner.
But a big enough parking lot with good paving, like my new practice spot, might work well if the landowner was cool. Dirt racing would be cool too, but on totally different bikes. Lots of dirt roads where a race could be held fast and furious style.
On the track in Tucson, I felt fine about the possibility of overcooking a corner.But a big enough parking lot with good paving, like my new practice spot, might work well if the landowner was cool. Dirt racing would be cool too, but on totally different bikes. Lots of dirt roads where a race could be held fast and furious style.
AussieJester
1 TW
veloman said:
Couldn't agree more, will only ever be for the the die hard enthusiasts
& i think thats just fine, group of like minded DIYers wanting to meet up couple of times a year to test themselves and their rides against like minded individuals would be something those individuals would plan and look forward to year round, just read some of Dogmans post regarding how much fun and a social event the Death Race was, he is still buzzing from it i think!?! Which is fantastic, 50 something year old again with a new sport he can have some reasonably cheap fun and meet up with others doing the same. When ultra professionalism comes into it prices blow out of proportion and then only the well heeled can hope to be competitive. Keep rules simple and few of them or the event will be killed before its run we don't have 100's pushing to run, we have what a dozen at most? Can't afford to be getting to picky who does and doesn't run.
Just take a read of Safes many pages of dribble and see how many got enthusiastic over his ideas of e-bike racing..none...in over 4 years of him pushing it.
70lbs or less working pedals helmet and gloves go have fun...
KiM.
dogman dan
1 PW
Yep. Don't forget the fun part. Sure get serious about winning, but even losing the death race was very fun. Buzzing again because I just finally got my race bike actually running. Only have 3 miles worth of battery for now, but what a three miles. Hope they run a fall event in Tucson this year.
I figure you have to attract at least 20 guys, that way the entry fee of $50 covers $1000 of track costs. At 40 guys, the same fee could rent the track for more time.
I figure you have to attract at least 20 guys, that way the entry fee of $50 covers $1000 of track costs. At 40 guys, the same fee could rent the track for more time.
AussieJester
1 TW
dogman said:
hehe Dogman loving the lipos is he ...now we need to get the DogMan a serious controller for his setup...oh...and more lipos ...can never have enough lipos LoL
Great to hear the race bikes up and running mate i know you been working on it for awhile now.
KiM
Evoforce
10 kW
I agree AJ. Simple rules, e-v enthusiasts, and 1or 2 bus loads of college cheerleaders...How much more could we ask for? Maybe combine with a solar power event or anything green event?
AussieJester
1 TW
Evoforce said:
A keg...would have to be a keg involved somewhere wouldn't
there? I'm sure Luke is one of the few non drinkers...
:lol: I do like your idea of 2 bus loads of Cheerleaders,
i like that very much..
If they look like the "cheerleaders"i see on those American teen movies i'll be cutting 30lbs off the
cruiser and shipping it and me in a crate to Lukes place come
race time LOL
KiM
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