E-BikeKit front hub motor review coming soon

[dogman dan]

Waiting for it to arrive, it shipped yesterday. Jason has been waiting to really get the last details tweaked on his front motor kits before sending me the final version for the dogman torture test. Oh boy, another new hub motor to put through the hoops. Heat testing will have to wait till next summer though.

 

[torker]

What is the tm in the title? What did Jason have to tweak? Are you coming over to the 9C side of the force?

 

[dogman dan]

tm for tradmarked, Yep, been wanting to ride a 9c for some time, but funds aren't unlimited. I gather from other posters that Jason has been testing and tweaking his stuff from day one. I have no idea what exactly has been changed form the kits that he started out with, only that he is pretty happy with it now, and ready to hear what I think about it.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Front Motor? I thought we had you converted after you got your hands on the Rear 530x!

 

[Russell]

E-BikeKitâ„¢ Conversion Kit Includes:

1 x Front Wheel w/ 500-750 Watt Brushless Hub Motor
1 x 36 Volt 22 Amp Intelligent Motor Controller (works w/ any 36v or 48v battery pack)
1 x Twist or Thumb Throttle & Matching Grip
2 x E-Brake Handles w/ Electric Cutoff Switches
1 x Battery Harness Wire (for connecting any 36v or 48v battery)
1 x Universal Stainless Steel Torque Arm (a must have for safety)
15 x Black Zip Ties (3 sizes for neatly securing wiring to the frame)
1 x 2.5mm Metric Hex Key (to mount the throttle)
1 x E-Bike Spoke Wrench
1 x Owner's Manual & Installation Instructions
1 x E-BikeKitâ„¢ T-Shirt

Now that last item is the deal-maker fer sure :wink:

-R

 

[dogman dan]

I have no problem with front hub, on my bikes that have strong steel forks. I think front hub is great on street riding but my normal routes don't require curb hopping. Love to blast a corner with both tires grabbing traction.

Bikes for riding in dirt are another story, climbing a steep hill of loose sand or gravel is a job for rear hub. Also, I still don't know that I would want more than 1000 watts on front forks of most bikes.

 

[dnmun]

the torque arm he includes now is the real deal. plus he now uses andersons for the phase wire connectors so no hot bullet connectors anymore. the spoke wrench is a good deal too since they are bigger spokes than regular bikes so the bike shops don't carry the spoke wrench that will fit.

i think he is doing a first class job. the 9C doesn't seem to get as hot as the goldenmotor so i think you will be ok during the summer, and since the axles are sealed you can spray it with water without fear of hurting your hall sensors.

 

[WonderProfessor]

Dumb Question Alert!

Okay, I'll bite. On the www.e-bikekit.com web site, there is no mention of the manufacturer of the "500-750 Watt Brushless Hub Motor." I thought that www.e-bikekit.com was selling the AOTEMA motors. But you folks are talking 9C motors, right? The price for the kit on www.e-bikekit.com is $358. The price for a 9C kit on ebike.ca is over $400. Are these the same motors?

 

[Russell]

Dumb Question Alert!

Okay, I'll bite. On the http://www.e-bikekit.com web site, there is no mention of the manufacturer of the "500-750 Watt Brushless Hub Motor." I thought that http://www.e-bikekit.com was selling the AOTEMA motors. But you folks are talking 9C motors, right? The price for the kit on http://www.e-bikekit.com is $358. The price for a 9C kit on ebike.ca is over $400. Are these the same motors?

There's no mention of the manufacturer because E-BikeKit wants to be known as a brand and not another supplier of Nine Continent motors, which is what they sell. You may have gotten http://www.e-bikekit.com confused with http://www.hightekbikes.com which does sell the AOTEMA motor kits. There is a price difference between the 9C kit sold at E-BikeKit and ebikes.ca because the kits include different parts, notably ebikes.ca includes a Cycle Analyst. The controllers are also different and the kit from E-BikeKit contains a number of small useful items plus a T-shirt

-R

 

[DerekG]

:lol:

That T-Shirt makes the kit...

...but in all seriousness I love mine. It's not distracting yet really adds a lot to your appearance if your helping get other interested about E-bikes

Anyways, I'm really looking forward to your review dogman. I've read too many of your posts and have learned so much now I'm curious how the kit I have will fare against the hills of death

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, how it climbs the hill home to my house will tell all. Only 6% but it's long enough to reveal a motors true strength. Russel has it exactlly right about the vendors and the motors they sell. It's nice to have enough reputable vendors out there to get real confused about which is which. It wasn't always that way.

Tracking says the motor arrrives Wed. I'll install it thursday afternoon and ride it to work Friday. I may ride it a few more days before writing much about it. I'll start a new thread too, since I have so much chit chat on this one now.

 

[WonderProfessor]

There's no mention of the manufacturer because E-BikeKit wants to be known as a brand and not another supplier of Nine Continent motors, which is what they sell. You may have gotten http://www.e-bikekit.com confused with http://www.hightekbikes.com which does sell the AOTEMA motor kits. There is a price difference between the 9C kit sold at E-BikeKit and ebikes.ca because the kits include different parts, notably ebikes.ca includes a Cycle Analyst. The controllers are also different and the kit from E-BikeKit contains a number of small useful items plus a T-shirt

-R

Many Thanks, Russell. That T-shirt is tempting but the CycleAnalyst that comes with ebikes.com's kit would probably win me over. It's funny. Everyone has to learn from experience. When I told others at the San Diego Electric Vehicle Association and on this forum that I really only wanted to put together one e-bike so I wanted to do it right and wasn't afraid of spending some significant change to get it right the first and final time, many said, "No, no, no. This is just your first of many. Do it cheaply. You will splurge on your next." Nope, I thought.

Well, a friend is offering me a 36-volt, 9.5 amp-hour lithium battery and charger for $175. (At least he says it is lithium but he is not sure which type.) I need a second charger anyway. Soooo.... I could buy the whole package from him and build a second e-bike with the second battery. It turns out the folks were right about it just being the first bike. However, I hope to spend far less on the second one. This bike would be cheaper, faster (uh, meaning not legal), and with a much lower range. It also would be far less comfortable because it would not be a recumbent. Might even put it on our tandem.

He says the charger is rated at 43.5 volts and 3 amps. The charger that came with the Ping battery is rated at 45 volts and 2 amps. When the Ping battery is completely charged, the CycleAnalyst says that it is producing over 44 volts. Of course, that drops almost immediately to just below 39 volts as soon as you start using the bike. Does that mean that the charger has to produce over 44 volts to get the BMS to completely balance the battery? I would use this charger at work to recharge the battery so I guess it would not be too bad if the battery wasn't completely balanced at work; it would be balanced by the charger at home.

This stuff is addicting ...

 

[davespicer]

This stuff is addicting ...

Indeed And the modularity and interchangeability of components makes it very tempting to tinker. Almost as though ebikes had a kind of "mechanical imperative", like the "biological imperative" organisms do, to interchange genetic material and produce variants. And since the bikes can't to that on their own, they co-opt us owners to do it for them...

Um, sorry. Must be getting close to Halloween

 

[JasonEBK]

Deleted. Thank you to all at ES.

 

[Russell]

Russell, I'm sending you a T-Shirt tomorrow

Hey thanks Jason and it's not even my birthday (but it's coming up soon).

...size large please





-R

 

[JasonEBK]

Deleted. Thank you to all at ES.

 

[torker]

Hey Jason, If you wanted to send me a shirt and a spoke wrench that would be awesome. I will wear the shirt proudly when I ride Also I have only trued a few old wheels in my time. The only thing I notice on mine is a few spokes don't ting when I pluck them. Any pointers? But I am noticing a little ting sound when I first take off. New sound. I have inspected the dropouts and axlenuts and that all seems good so I thought it might be time to snug up the spokes. Great job taking care of all of us btw.

 

[mwkeefer]

Hey all,

Had to post...

The "thin" inner dropout washers are not just for the front axle installs but also for rear, these are sized to bring the rear within the 135mm point while still allowing for the inner washers needed to prevent dropout spread.

This even distibution of torque is just as important in a rear hub install and perhaps even more important when dealing with verticle rear dropouts - without the proper inner washers, I'd not be riding my bike very long (seriously at > 3000w on a front hub with alloy forks).

Regards,
Mike

 

[mwkeefer]

Hey Jason, If you wanted to send me a shirt and a spoke wrench that would be awesome. I will wear the shirt proudly when I ride Also I have only trued a few old wheels in my time. The only thing I notice on mine is a few spokes don't ting when I pluck them. Any pointers? But I am noticing a little ting sound when I first take off. New sound. I have inspected the dropouts and axlenuts and that all seems good so I thought it might be time to snug up the spokes. Great job taking care of all of us btw.

Torker,

You want to squeeze each opposite spoke to check their tension... All wheels will "settle" a bit after some miles and need to be re trued. This is normal when first setting up...

If your hearing a ping.. it could be several things but;

Check each spoke nipple with your fingers to be sure none have come "loose" (you will know if they have once you feel it)
Raise the wheel off the ground and spin it slowly by hand while listening for the ting sound... on one wheel I built (a 20" rear hub) I actually dropped a small piece of metal into the double walls of the rim.. for 2 weeks I thought I was going crazy... the wheel was trued nearly perfectly... I was getting the same tone from each spoke on the same side (rear will be different tension and tone on drive side vs idle side) but still that damn tinging... Finally I pulled the wheel and took the tire off, put it on the true stand and spun it... ting... spun it a bit more until the piece fell out. Problem solved.
If that doesn't answer the question then... it may be time to partially rebuild the wheel... have you taken any major pot holes out with it?

-Mike

 

[dogman dan]

I have found with other hubmotors that a few tweaks of the spokes are needed in the first few hundred miles as things settle in. Same thing with a brand new bike from wallmart, or any other place where they don't tune up the bike before the sale. When a wheel is talking too much, I know it's time for some spoke tweaking. The new spokes tend to stretch and settle in a bit at first.

About the washers, properly fitting a hub motor on the bike is just about the very most important thing. It's no fun to ruin a motor or controller in the first half mile. I know, I did it to my first WE kit.

Tracking says the motor arrives today. Since this thread is a little cluttered allready, I will start a new one with all the pix and stuff on the first post when I get it installed.

 

[torker]

Yea I've squeezed 2 spokes together all the way around and I can't really tell a difference in any. I can tell that some are flat when I strike them. I've only got about 300 mi. on the setup so far. I know I'm not much of an avid ebiker. I'm just getting bored riding around our little town and too chicken to ride the local hiway or the county roads with no shoulder. I don't think I've hit any potholes just the normal rough pavement around here. Hopefully it is just a matter of snugging them up a little. I'm really anxious to hear Dogmans review. I really like mine. I'd love to try a 9c with a good 48v lipo and 35 amp controller, that might climb pretty good.

 

[dogman dan]

The kit arrived today, and I can say I'm already having a very positive impression. Nice box, well supported by special foam blocks, gets the rim to you despite the monkeys at ups. Everything looks like it's really well thought out to the last detail. What a difference from my first WE BD36 kit that arrived with the alxe poking through the box. Only one thing I can find in the whole box of stuff to object to is the T shirt. :wink: I've gotten trained by the shitty drivers in my town to always wear yellow shirts in the hopes that they might see me before I passs under the wheels. The shirt is black.

But seriously, Everything is there, very complete and nothing looks cheap, torque arm, anderson connectors where we like em, even another set of andersons on a set of wires to connect to the battery. Not one single trip to the hardware store should be needed. It doesn't include a rear rack, but most of us either have one, or want a nicer one than most kits send out. Anyway, you need a rack that fits your bike, not one that only fits a beach cruiser.

Edit, reading the owners manual, I guess a rack does come with the kit if you buy the battery. I only got the motor kit. There is already a better reveiw on the E-BikeKit battery

As said above, the contoller is a 36v 22 amp. Taking a peek inside I see 63v caps, so I wouldn't hesitate to run a 48v battery on it. Those that want to really overvolt usually buy big 72v models. This is a perfect setup for Jason to sell a US legal bike kit, but we can easily hook up 48v to it and have a bit more watts.

The weather may keep me from test riding it till Sunday or so, I can't believe it's snowing as I type this.

 

[mwkeefer]

The kit arrived today, and I can say I'm already having a very positive impression. Nice box, well supported by special foam blocks, gets the rim to you despite the monkeys at ups. Everything looks like it's really well thought out to the last detail. What a difference from my first WE BD36 kit that arrived with the alxe poking through the box. Only one thing I can find in the whole box of stuff to object to is the T shirt. :wink: I've gotten trained by the shitty drivers in my town to always wear yellow shirts in the hopes that they might see me before I passs under the wheels. The shirt is black.

I hate the blocks, they are difficult to remove and like to hold the wheel in place = )_

The shirt is fine in black, remember with a little tweaking of the power source and controller parameters you will be cruising at the speed of traffic... so they will have more time to notice you = )_

But seriously, Everything is there, very complete and nothing looks cheap, torque arm, anderson connectors where we like em, even another set of andersons on a set of wires to connect to the battery. Not one single trip to the hardware store should be needed. It doesn't include a rear rack, but most of us either have one, or want a nicer one than most kits send out. Anyway, you need a rack that fits your bike, not one that only fits a beach cruiser.

As said above, the contoller is a 36v 22 amp. Taking a peek inside I see 63v caps, so I wouldn't hesitate to run a 48v battery on it. Those that want to really overvolt usually buy big 72v models. This is a perfect setup for Jason to sell a US legal bike kit, but we can easily hook up 48v to it and have a bit more watts.

I have been running 15s LiPo at 62.25 for nearly 3 months on a daily basis (12-20mi per day average @ 32.5mph average) with the infineon controller programmed for 35a battery current and a speed%2 of 110% - no issues, runs quite nice and is uber reliable.

The weather may keep me from test riding it till Sunday or so, I can't believe it's snowing as I type this. :shock

And with that I will promptly stop complaining about a little rain (for days on end but not snow!) though I am looking forward to the snow this year... have a second hub motor ready to go AWD and run right through the muck - atleast I won't look funny in my ski gear (as I do in the rain).

Looking forward to your install and first impressions!

-Mike

 

[Russell]

In case it's not obvious to readers still, NEVER GRIND DOWN YOUR DROPOUTS!!! The damage you can cause to a material which is most likely an alloy through heat, micro fractures, etc will cause failure eventually.. even if you do a good job of grinding. I tried this with forks even had them running under oil to keep the heat down and still made them too brittle to accept the hub motor axle bolt torque... snapped like peanut brittle.

-Mike

I have filed both of my front dropouts. I use a hand file to remove the paint from the flat sides of the dropouts which is enough to get the axle to slide in then I slightly reshape the top curvature of the dropouts with a round file to allow the axle to seat fully. IMO this does not remove much material, produce a lot of heat or significantly weaken the dropouts.

-R

 

[torker]

That's all I had to do with mine. I filed the slot till the axle slipped in all the way then dremeled the end till it sat flush.

So Dogman what bike is the new motor going on? Is it going on in place of a current setup to get an apples to apples or is it going on a new frame?