E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

[Scratch1973]

Thanks Rix. Def gonna look into that.

 

[Scratch1973]

Rix do you happen to know what size freewheel to use? I have found from 17 t all the way up to 23 t

 

[Rix]

Well to be honest I think that is the only thing I want is something to get the bike home if the battery runs out so I'm looking for the setup for that. Not sure what sizes are best for that. I don't think I'm gonna pedal much while riding

Dimpirate, I had found the Melvin a while back couldn't remember name though. As. Advertised I should be able to run a second chainring up to 20t less!! Cool
Thanks Rick, this will be getting added to phasor package!

Scratch and Dimpirate, I have built several single speed mountain bikes over the years which is why I know of the Paul Components Melvin. If you wanted to go with a single speed combo that could get you home under pedal power only, go with a 2 to 1 ratio on your gearing. This would be 32 front 16 rear or 34 front 17 rear or 38 front 19 rear and on and on. With this ratio running 180mm cranks on 26"MTB, I have reached speeds of 22mph pedaling fast. Of course my bike only weighed 24# and that was with really heavy Maxxis Minion DH tires on heavy duty rims. I could have easily shaved 2 pounds off that bike with different wheel/tire component selection. But with the Melvin you can run a BMX chain because its wide enough, or run an 8 speed chain with a double chainring up front. You could technically go 52-32 up front with a 16t cog on the hub motor. And using shorter crank arms, say 165-170mm, running a 52/16 you could probably pedal the bike 30-35mph comfortably with your motor assisting and not be spinning too fast and you will still have the 32/16 option incase you killed your battery and had to pedal the machine home. Still not the wide range of the Schlumpf set up, but can be done for about 400 bucks less.

Can't wait to see your guys' builds.

Rick

 

[Scratch1973]

Thanks for your help Rix. It will be awhile till I actually get mine up and going. I just ordered the frame so the minimum is gonna be 3 months, but I am somewhat on a budget. I just want to get a good idea of how I am gonna set it up at least for now. I def want the cromotor and everything is so expensive but I had a crystalyte I think it was a 3505 and was not really happy with the quality so I want to try another brand and keep hearing great things about the cromotor

 

[Rodney64]

Thanks for your help Rix. It will be awhile till I actually get mine up and going. I just ordered the frame so the minimum is gonna be 3 months, but I am somewhat on a budget. I just want to get a good idea of how I am gonna set it up at least for now. I def want the cromotor and everything is so expensive but I had a crystalyte I think it was a 3505 and was not really happy with the quality so I want to try another brand and keep hearing great things about the cromotor

Scratch, yes exiting times ahead but don't stress.yes the crow motors a good choice.


Which controller are you going to use. Make sure you get the motor with the thermistor. If not wait. The other option is to send the motor to methods and get it made plug and play. I'm not sure if hell do it but if he doesn't then is best if you find someone who will help.

This is my advise to pay the extra and know that when you plug it in that its going to work.
Also where do you live, post it in our profile.
Rod

I had someone here in Perth who helped me otherwise I would of been lost. (Jonescg)

 

[Rix]

This is my advise to pay the extra and know that when you plug it in that its going to work.
Also where do you live, post it in our profile.
Rod

I had someone here in Perth who helped me otherwise I would of been lost. (Jonescg)

So true, about paying extra for the plug and play reliability option. Cant stress this enough. In the past I have cut corners on bike parts only to end up walking/pushing my MTB/Gassers back to the truck. A few years ago, I pushed a gasser just over 10 miles (16KM) because I siezed the motor up tight and only replaced the piston when I should have replaced the crank and rod bearings as well because of slop. I believe the same applies for Ebikes. Pay for the best possible options, hub motor, batteries, controllers, components. Then your machine is less likely to fail and leave you stranded. BTW, was JonesCG the guy the built your battery pack? Wether it was him or not, sure did a great job on it. Fits perfectly in your frame and looks sano.

Rick

 

[korpin]

well I fried my wires inside my motor which does not make sense because my current was limited to under 40 and I keep the watts around 2000 and under during climb and always pedal first before I add power...HPC said they would fix it but the motor is rated 4500 watts what size wiring should I have going to motor(guage) they look a little thin to me..the motor has heat sensors but apparently its the wires that are melting before motor gets hot which tells me the wires are too thin

Korpin it doesn't take long to heat up. I blew my controller and it was only working hard for a few minutes. Once the heat gets into the motor it's hard to remove it. Maybe you need to vent your motor by the sounds of it you do a lot of hill climbing.

well it turns out the motor WAS NOT fried just the wires at the connector from motor to controller.....HPC fixed it they been good about that.....looks like I am headed twowards the Crystalyte Crown motor the wires to motor are THICK!..like 9 or 10 gauge compared to 13 or 14 for 4065...which IS vented by the way...guess these hub motors really do not like to climb

 

[Rodney64]

Korpin, The crown will be a better option. Are HPC still talking about swapping the 4065 for the crown. I know that you did mention that once. Good to see that you are getting good support from HPC.

When I had these types of issues with wires melted together I had to work it out myself.

One thing that I have found when my wires have melted the cable from the controller to the motors hot as well.

Maybe its worth taping a heat sensor to these cables and monitoring this temp when you're doing hill work. It's all a learning curve and we've all been though it.

 

[Rix]

Korpin, I am surprised you are having issues with your HPC65/4065. Hyena is running 9KW through his and with smart riding, he hasn't reported any problems. His isnt even vented yet unless I missed it. I don't know if I am drinking the Crown Motor Koolaid just yet. Keepin my ears to the ground, I am hearing rumors that they aren't as robust as the 54xx or cromotors and are definately not a 6KW continues motor. Why not go with a Crystalyte 5404 or a new Cromotor? Running my 5404 at 70 amps and 80 volts doesn't even get it that hot on the climbs, and I weigh 240# and my bike weighs about 120#. Since you got the wider swing arm, the cromotor or 5404 would mount directly on. Hell with the volts you are running, go with a Crystalyte 5405. Should be good for 40MPH at 100 volts and would climb like a mountain goat.

Rick

 

[Rix]

Thanks for your help Rix. It will be awhile till I actually get mine up and going. I just ordered the frame so the minimum is gonna be 3 months, but I am somewhat on a budget. I just want to get a good idea of how I am gonna set it up at least for now. I def want the cromotor and everything is so expensive but I had a crystalyte I think it was a 3505 and was not really happy with the quality so I want to try another brand and keep hearing great things about the cromotor

Did you mean 5305 instead of 3505? Yah, I have heard great things about the cromotors also. And the fact that Methods had a video of one the older models on a trike build running burst current way north of 10KW with no reproted issues is a plus. And the gouge on the street is the newer cros are even better. Haven't confirmed this yet, but I heard that the new cros will have a speed and torque version available. If thats the case, I can see my self mounting a torque version on my bomber down the road. Cant wait to see the builds with the new cromotor.

Rick

 

[korpin]

Korpin, I am surprised you are having issues with your HPC65/4065. Hyena is running 9KW through his and with smart riding, he hasn't reported any problems. His isnt even vented yet unless I missed it. I don't know if I am drinking the Crown Motor Koolaid just yet. Keepin my ears to the ground, I am hearing rumors that they aren't as robust as the 54xx or cromotors and are definately not a 6KW continues motor. Why not go with a Crystalyte 5404 or a new Cromotor? Running my 5404 at 70 amps and 80 volts doesn't even get it that hot on the climbs, and I weigh 240# and my bike way about 120#. Since you got the wider swing arm, the cromotor or 5404 would mount directly on. Hell with the volts you are running, go with a Crystalyte 5405. Should be good for 40MPH at 100 volts and would climb like a mountain goat.

Rick

how thick are the wires on the cromotor and 5405 anyway?....that may be way to go..was reading they are 11 guage that may be what the crown are when you consider insulation....one thing I noticed when I saw a crown opened up was the stator was NOT very wide,or at least as not as wide as the body would suggest WAY thinner than a cromotor BUT this may have been a test motor,but the weight is somewhere around 16 pounds if I remember correctly whereas the cromotor is more than 22......

 

[korpin]

Korpin, The crown will be a better option. Are HPC still talking about swapping the 4065 for the crown. I know that you did mention that once. Good to see that you are getting good support from HPC.

When I had these types of issues with wires melted together I had to work it out myself.

One thing that I have found when my wires have melted the cable from the controller to the motors hot as well.

Maybe its worth taping a heat sensor to these cables and monitoring this temp when you're doing hill work. It's all a learning curve and we've all been though it.

yes derrick over at HPC would swap out the 4065 for the new crown so I may go that route....it seems pretty light for a bigger motor compared to cromotor or 5405 but not sure how robust it is...would like to get a vented version but not sure if thats available...also noticed stator was NOT as wide as body would suggest more like a 4065 motor but maybe that was a test motor I was seeing?

 

[Rix]

Korpin, not sure about the cromotor, but both 5403 and 5404 I have came with what looks like 10g wire with very thin insulation even though the OD is closer to 12g. I say that because I spliced and added 12 inches of wire onto mine so it would reached the plugs coming out of the controller. The wire I used was 10g commercial/industrial wire. The insulation on that wire is much thicker but the copper core seems to be exactly the same size as the halls wires coming out of the hub. According to the spool's bar code scan, the commercial wire I used is rated for 330volts at 50 amps so its slightly over engineered for what I am doing. You are correct about the weight of the cro, and the new cros are probably 23#. The 5405 is closer to 29-30 pounds. With that extra weight, comes reliability with higher current applications. Unless its no cost to you, I would wait on the crown motor. There are some guys I know of that have ordered some and will be doing some T&E (test and evaluation) on them. But the gouge I am getting so far is the crown motors are not liking 5kw and highter even under normal flat land use and light climbing. But they are looking like they will be a good reliable option for lower wattage light weight direct drive options for people that don't want a geared hub.

 

[Rodney64]

I would wait on the crown motor.

Korpin, I'd wait for the cromotor with demister. I think this is what Rick meant.

 

[Rix]

I would wait on the crown motor.

Korpin, I'd wait for the cromotor with demister. I think this is what Rick meant.

Yep, that what I meant. Thanks Rod for the assist.

 

[Insider]

Hi guys,

Is there anyone here who use LiFePo4 within his frame?

I'm not sure if anyone has used LiFePo4 but one of the things that you need to think about with cells in the Phasor frame is that they need to be laid flat. Not on edge. Otherwise they will deform and puff. This is from my experence. The other option is upright. Mine were upright but longways. With the angle of the frame I have supported the cells by making 3 mm ply boxes.

The below cell may work ok. Look for cells that are around 45mm wide. The below pack is a flat pack. this is what you'll need this way you can fit them 2 wide and placed flat on the frame. Remember the frame about 97mm wide and these flat packs are 43mms wide. Still plenty of room for packaging either side.

liFePo4 is a safer option if you have never used lipo or need to store your bike inside. Don't see any reason why it won't work

Rodney, thanks for your expirience.

Yes, I have never ever used lipo and I'm going to store my bike at home. So, Lipo scares me

As I see here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=38252&start=25#p593676
your Lipo's lay on the edge of each other, not flatwise. Maybe I don't get the gist of what you are saing

P.S. My frame is about to be powdercoated, hurray!!

 

[Rodney64]

Hi guys,

Is there anyone here who use LiFePo4 within his frame?

I'm not sure if anyone has used LiFePo4 but one of the things that you need to think about with cells in the Phasor frame is that they need to be laid flat. Not on edge. Otherwise they will deform and puff. This is from my experence. The other option is upright. Mine were upright but longways. With the angle of the frame I have supported the cells by making 3 mm ply boxes.

The below cell may work ok. Look for cells that are around 45mm wide. The below pack is a flat pack. this is what you'll need this way you can fit them 2 wide and placed flat on the frame. Remember the frame about 97mm wide and these flat packs are 43mms wide. Still plenty of room for packaging either side.

liFePo4 is a safer option if you have never used lipo or need to store your bike inside. Don't see any reason why it won't work

Rodney, thanks for your expirience.

Yes, I have never ever used lipo and I'm going to store my bike at home. So, Lipo scares me

As I see here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=38252&start=25#p593676
your Lipo's lay on the edge of each other, not flatwise. Maybe I don't get the gist of what you are saing

P.S. My frame is about to be powdercoated, hurray!!

What I'm trying to say is lipo cells need to be laid flat in the Phasor frame.

If the cells are on edge the bottom cells in my pack deformed then puffed. Once they puff the potential for fires at its highest. At least if they're flat they're less lightly to be damaged.

 

[Rodney64]

Hey, Rodney!

Thanx for your experience.

My round trip to my work is the same as yours - about 45km. The road is flat with no hills, a common moscow landscape.

I think I'm going to use LiFePO4 ( 12x(8.4Ah 13.2V) Zippy FlightMax) battery instead of LiPo. Only due to sensitivity to temperature and flammability of LiPo batteries.

I have a final decision regarding motor. I'll use MAC 1000W.

The wheels will be 26' (rear) and 26'-28' (front)

As for the type of riding - city rides mostly, hilly off-roads at weekends (not so reckless)

Insider these cells will be ok but just keep In mind to place the cells flat if possible. The other option is to do what HD Killer did and make a shelf to stop the bottom cells from being squashed. Not sure how many cells HD killer has in this frame and its difficult to see if they're 2 wide.

You will only be able to place them one wide in the frame and space will be tight.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

What's wrong with a topeak bag with a few LiPo for longer trips ? just parallel them up ?

Maybe you need diodes if you do that because one pack might be a fair bit older than the one not used so much ?

Just a suggestion.

 

[Rodney64]

What's wrong with a topeak bag with a few LiPo for longer trips ? just parallel them up ?

Maybe you need diodes if you do that because one pack might be a fair bit older than the one not used so much ?

Just a suggestion.

Yes a good option but with careful planning this will not be needed.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

The other option would be to install NMC cells ? Cell man sells them now. You might fit a bit more ah in there.

 

[Rodney64]

Rick according to maxwell65 and again Grin cyclery it looks like crystalyte have discontinued the XX54 series motors.



http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=47577#p697853

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_motors.php

 

[korpin]

Rick according to maxwell65 and again Grin cyclery it looks like crystalyte have discontinued the XX54 series motors.



http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=47577#p697853

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_motors.php

well if thats true what will stealth bomber be using?..anybody know?

 

[Rix]

Rick according to maxwell65 and again Grin cyclery it looks like crystalyte have discontinued the XX54 series motors.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=47577#p697853
http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_motors.php

No, not the 54xx, Crystalyte DC'd the 53xx series like your 5305 in 2011. They are still available by some because they stockpiled them. Crystalyte still makes the 54xx series which is what the Bomber and Huricane 4.5 use. But FYI, it seems that some whole salers still refer to the 53xx series and 54xx series as the "X5" so when you read somewhere that the X5 was DC'd they are most likely referring to the 53XX. Even Cyrstalyte (China) website still advertises the 5404 and 5405 but not the 5403 and no 53XXs.

Rick

 

[Rix]

Rod, I cut and pasted this from Grin

Crystalyte 400 and 5300 Series Motor's Discontinued The venerable 400 and 5300 motor series that got so many enthusiasts started on ebikes has now been formally discontinued by Crystalyte