E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[Cowardlyduck]

You have it wired wrong if it's draining your pack, connect it to the ignition switch and it'll only come on when the bike is turned on. A current draw of 10-20w is insignificant compared to the motor pulling 1000s of watts.

Thanks Jay, I didn't realize I could do that, but it makes sense now. I didn't realize the full pack voltage ran through the ignition.
Which way do you wire it? In series with the ignition? Or do you just use the ignition loop to complete the circuit for the light?

Cheers

 

[Rix]

Another fighter got sale in Melbourne.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stealth-Electric-Bike-/190923396476?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2c73ebd57c&_uhb=1

That looks like another early model "special". That's actually an older bomber frame with a fighter swing arm so no Vbox. Looks like a single speed crankset too with no schlumpf.

Strange. I thought it was an early Fighter like Voicecoils on the first page of the thread but on closer inspection, it does look like a Bomber frame. If it is 90% Bomber why call it a Fighter though? :?

I missed your comment earlier John, but yah, it should be called a Bomber or a Bighter, or a Fbomb. Close inspection reveals a 54xx hub. Don't know shit about the battery, but judging by the top portion frame view, this frame is the frame model between your old Bomber frame (Puale's now) and the 2012 like mine. The subframe is still welded on, but the frame is narrower for the pouch cells instead of the Headway Cells. Eitherway, it looks clean.

Rick

 

[Hyena]

I didn't realize the full pack voltage ran through the ignition.
Which way do you wire it? In series with the ignition? Or do you just use the ignition loop to complete the circuit for the light?

The controller is switched on (and in turn the CA too) by supplying +ve pack voltage to the VCC pin on the board. So it's just a loop of wire from +ve to VCC with a switch of some description in the middle.
In the case of the stealths it's a key switch. Connect your multimeter -ve to the main pack negative and test each of the keyswitch wires with the +ve probe. When turned off one side will have +ve battery voltage on it and the other side nothing. You want to connect your DC converter +ve to the side of the keyswitch that reads no voltage with the switch off. Mine being so far from stock these days I can't tell you unfortunately if there's a particular wiring colour code.

PS: I missed it before but your earlier suggestion to rely on the pressure of just heatshrink to hold the wires to the halls instead of soldering or crimping them is a bad idea. Unless you're a sadist who likes removing and opening motors all the time

 

[Rix]

Unless you're a sadist who likes removing and opening motors all the time

Ah crap! I have my 5403 opened up for like the 20th time, is this bad?

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Yes I did see those comments about the heat-shrink...after I had already put everything back together though, so I was holding off commenting until something happened.
Well, it didn't take long. I'm yet to fully identify it, but I've got another hall sensor dropped out permanently somewhere.

Guess I'll do it properly the second time around. :lol:
That being said, if it's just the wire or connector somewhere, I won't bother opening up the motor again until they actually break.

Cheers

 

[Hyena]

Ah crap! I have my 5403 opened up for like the 20th time, is this bad?

Why are you opening it up so much ?! They're not like pulling a gun apart to clean you know
Personally I think once you've opened a motor for the 3rd time you need to make some assessments about what you're doing to require opening it and how you're going about fixing it. Direct drive motors *should* be fairly maintenance free. I guess the reason most open motors is for hotrodding purposes, so in that case if you do your homework and then do it all at once it helps too. Ie drill holes, fit a thermostat and upgrade your wiring all in one go. Then it should only be in the event of a hall failure that you need to open it.

I've got another hall sensor dropped out permanently somewhere.

Unfortunately you were setting yourself up for failure with that one. I'm surprised more people didn't jump in to tell you it wasn't a good idea. If it was some sort of fixed, low current, electrical wiring somwhere you might possibly get away with it but certainly not in something like a hub motor that is bashed around offroad. If the solder gets hot and goes liquid it pretty much just runs off the wires and they'll fall apart from each other. I've gotten motors hot enough to melt the solder off halls a few times and if they're just soldered side by side it's a recipe for open circuits. Ideally you want to form both a mechanical and solder bond, so like this with just a quick hit of solder to lock it all there:

I showed your post about heatshrinking hall wires together to this guy who makes these motors at crystalyte and this was his reaction

 

[Cowardlyduck]

:lol: Thanks Jay. I do appreciate the advice.
Did a bit of investigation into my issue and it turns out it was just a bad connection where I had also not soldered the hall sensor wires together just outside the controller. I had previously cut them to troubleshoot, and when reconnecting them, did the same thing with the heat-shrink thinking it would save the hassle of solder.

Anyway, at least that means it's an easy fix for now (I will solder them this time). I don't think I'll redo the hall sensor leg connections until/if they actually fail. Remember I also inserted the legs of the hall sensors inside the silicone wire sheath. Not sure if that makes it any better, but they're holding up for now. You never know, it may hold up another couple of thousand K's. At least this way, there is no solder to melt if it gets too hot.

Cheers

 

[Hyena]

I had also not soldered the hall sensor wires together just outside the controller. I had previously cut them to troubleshoot, and when reconnecting them, did the same thing with the heat-shrink thinking it would save the hassle of solder.

Why did you cut the controller wires ?? And to save the hassle of soldering ? Dude, no...
Get a soldering iron and a packet of cheap resistors or something from jaycar and practise your soldering. If you still can't get maybe try some of this 'solder glue'
I've never tried it myself but I guess it must work. http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=NM2831

At least this way, there is no solder to melt if it gets too hot

That's terrible logic! Though I suppose sky diving without a parachute saves wearing an uncomfortable harness and all those bothersome ropes and cords getting in the way too

 

[Rix]

Why are you opening it up so much ?! They're not like pulling a gun apart to clean you know
Personally I think once you've opened a motor for the 3rd time you need to make some assessments about what you're doing to require opening it and how you're going about fixing it. Direct drive motors *should* be fairly maintenance free. I guess the reason most open motors is for hotrodding purposes, so in that case if you do your homework and then do it all at once it helps too. Ie drill holes, fit a thermostat and upgrade your wiring all in one go. Then it should only be in the event of a hall failure that you need to open it.

Maybe not a true 20 times, When I first opened the motor up, it was to vent it. Then up and till I got my 5404, I opened the 5403 every couple of hundred miles to check for dirt build up and stuff like that. Well this last time, I opened up both my 5404 and 5403 to see if I could tell the difference between the stators with a back to back comparison. I cant they both look identical. In fact, if I mixed them up, I would have to blast down the road to see which one went faster to figure it out which was what.

[quote
I showed your post about heatshrinking hall wires together to this guy who makes these motors at crystalyte and this was his reaction ][/quote] Damn! He was so upset he probaby shit himself.

Rick

 

[pendragon8000]

Another fighter got sale in Melbourne.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stealth-Electric-Bike-/190923396476?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2c73ebd57c&_uhb=1

...

Get on it 10 mins left

 

[Sokol]

Get on it 10 mins left

....and SOLD for $6,700.... Congrats to whoever won it! Someone on ES?

 

[pendragon8000]

Get on it 10 mins left

....and SOLD for $6,700.... Congrats to whoever won it! Someone on ES?

how to snipe a "FBOMB" on ebay 101:
1 second $100 ouch, sucks to be a***t

 

[MAFIA]

somebody in europe that can send me this http://26bikes.com/shop/parts/rims_and_rim_tapes/dh_fr/prod/mtx3924?alt&utm_expid=35833963-1.xKoHfTrkQl2F8GM_I_MA7A.1&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2F26bikes.com%2Fshop%2Fparts%2Frims_and_rim_tapes%2Fall%3Ffilter[9]%3D24%2522%26filter%255Bproducer%255D%3D38

 

[Athaneco]

to anyone that has driven both bomber and fighter, how different is that? The fighter must be better off road. Is there a way to make it go 60klm/hr ? without damaging the motor /controller.

 

[Rix]

to anyone that has driven both bomber and fighter, how different is that? The fighter must be better off road. Is there a way to make it go 60klm/hr ? without damaging the motor /controller.

Yes, there is away to get the Fighter to go faster. Run 16s Lipo. Don't need to change nothing else. Vent the hub motor. Problem solved. Of course, Hyena has a fighter that is way way quicker and faster than any stalk Bomber. Saying that the Fighter is better off road than the Bomber is subjective. Yah because the Fighter is lighter, it would be more nimble. But that doesn't neccesarly mean that its better off road. Its all about what the rider/pilot wants in a ride. Some people will be able to ride the Fighter faster than the Bomber, and others will be able to ride the Bomber faster than the Fighter.

Rick

 

[remf]

Run 16s Lipo.

I could be wrong but you might need more than 16S LiPo, maybe 18S or more since the stock pack is 16S LiFePo4. Starting voltage may be a bit higher & you might be carrying a few less kg's but not sure if there would be that much difference. If you're a lightweight & you're not going nuts up mountain trails, there are other ways - high speed motor & controller mods - though durability could still suffer regardless. Personally I think the warranty is more important than a few more kph's but of course I also understand the need for speed off-road, especially after the warranty period has expired.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Well I'm back up and running again after soldering my hall sensor wires (near the controller) back together.
Haven't touched the hall sensor connections inside the motor yet. I do see the logic in what everyone's saying about solder or crimping being the better method. At this stage though the hassle and time to reopen my motor to do it properly is not worth it. If the connections fail, then I'll do it with solder...until then wish me luck. :lol:

On another note, I finally managed to rig up my light permanently. Thanks Jay and others for the tips on wiring it up with the ignition. Worked a treat, and my light now turns on when I turn on the bike.

Together with my T6 "1000 Lumen" Magic shine (which is actually slightly brighter), they light up the night like day. Ill try and do a night ride video soon so you can all see.

Cheers

 

[Athaneco]

Run 16s Lipo.

I could be wrong but you might need more than 16S LiPo, maybe 18S or more since the stock pack is 16S LiFePo4. Starting voltage may be a bit higher & you might be carrying a few less kg's but not sure if there would be that much difference. If you're a lightweight & you're not going nuts up mountain trails, there are other ways - high speed motor & controller mods - though durability could still suffer regardless. Personally I think the warranty is more important than a few more kph's but of course I also understand the need for speed off-road, especially after the warranty period has expired.

My problem is that i use the bike on the street and buses following approaching me is my worst nighmare. These extra 10klmph, make the difference. I own an ebike that goes up to 50 and it not enough. I also have a bomber, it has more than enough power. If the fighter is much different than the bomber i would consider as a second option. I have seen videos of the fighter flying on jumps.

 

[Rix]

16S give you almost 67 volts hot off the charger and LVC would be around 58volts. The extra volts should be enoough for an extra 6mph or 10KPH. As I have learned, Lipos hot off the charger voltage doesn't settle like Lifepo4 and Li ion. 18s on a 4080 is good for 70KPH more or less so I guesstamated that 16S should get 60-65KPH pretty easily. But like Remf said, is 6mph (10kph) worth voiding your warranty? Maybe, but if you are going to void a warranty, I say void it big time. Go 20s lipo and you Figther will be as fast as the Bomber or realy close anyways.

Rick

 

[biknut]

Cheers

I'm really liking that headlight.

 

[Allex]

Hm... I would like to change the controller on the Bomber to get more oomph. The top speed is fine, but I would like to have a torque monster. Does anyone know what is the Amp limit on the BMS on stock battery?

 

[Rix]

Hm... I would like to change the controller on the Bomber to get more oomph. The top speed is fine, but I would like to have a torque monster. Does anyone know what is the Amp limit on the BMS on stock battery?

The stock controller should be limited to 65-70Ah. That being said, I have been told the battery is could for 4C capabilities. That means our stock batteries are rated for about 72Ah constant. Not sure if geting a controller rated for more Ah would be beneficial with the stock battery.

Rick

 

[Cowardlyduck]

In terms of speed, if you got a controller from Lyen, methods, or any EB3 type 18Fet+ controller you can use a 3 speed switch. With the programming capabilities of these controllers you can set the speed up to 120%.
I have one and set the speeds to 60, 100, 120% respectively.
Using the stock battery on my Fighter @48V with my HS4065 and in 120% speed mode I can hit 60kph vs the normal 50kph at 100%.
If you had the HS4080 the difference might be even greater, I'm not sure.

As for the amps output, I've tried running the stock Fighter battery above 65A a couple of times, and whilst it can do it, being a lower voltage battery it has no real need for more amps...at least with a HS4065 that is. My motor gets up to speed so quickly it's a struggle to get the motor to even need more than 50A most of the time at 48V. On an overage ride with the CA limiting Amps to 65 my max A draw is often less than this. When running my LiPo setup however it's a different story. The higher voltage also means it can pull more amps and for longer to get up to speed. I've seen 90A spikes when running my LiPo setup @75V hot off the charger.
So I think the question is dependent on what motor you have. If you have a higher speed wind, more amps will get you more torque, at the expense of heat. A higher torque wind motor will not benefit as much from more amps IMO.
Rix can comment on the differences in torque between the motor winds for the Bomber, but I think you might be better off sacrificing some top speed if you want more torque and swapping out the motor.

Cheers

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Stealth Fighter vs some BC Canada trailz
[youtube]rYDoaKvAO6g[/youtube]

 

[Rix]

In terms of speed, if you got a controller from Lyen, methods, or any EB3 type 18Fet+ controller you can use a 3 speed switch. With the programming capabilities of these controllers you can set the speed up to 120%.
I have one and set the speeds to 60, 100, 120% respectively.
Using the stock battery on my Fighter @48V with my HS4065 and in 120% speed mode I can hit 60kph vs the normal 50kph at 100%.
If you had the HS4080 the difference might be even greater, I'm not sure.

I think you might be better off sacrificing some top speed if you want more torque and swapping out the motor.

Cheers

I agree with you CD, running both the 5403 and 5404, the 5404 is by far the better option. I still get around 46MPH top speed with the 5404, 44MPH no pedaling. My 5405 is on its way, this winter, that will be laced up to a different size MC rim the ones I have tried so far. Giving the Bomber a makeover while the cold is keeping me indoors.