E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[Allex]

Also, looks like going to a slower wind you gain nothing if you use same controller settings.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64907
POWER is the same for the same sized WHEEL, spinning at the same SPEED with the same LOAD, for ALL WINDS.

 

[Rix]

Also, looks like going to a slower wind you gain nothing if you use same controller settings.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64907
POWER is the same for the same sized WHEEL, spinning at the same SPEED with the same LOAD, for ALL WINDS.

This is true, when the copper fill is the same in motors with different winds being compared. The copper fill on the 5404 is more than the 5403. The 5404 and 5403 both use the same diameter of copper wire, .083 thick. The 5404 has 4 turns vs the 5403 with 3 turns, so the potential for a stronger field can be generated with the 5404 due to higher copper content. Not the case with the 5404 and 5405 though. As I said, the 5405 has .083 thick wire with 4 turns on the wind, the 5405 has 5 turns, but is using .065 thick copper wire. The copper fill is almost identical. This was one of the things I wanted to comment on the tech thread but, since I lost the video footage for the drag racing, I didn't bother posting any comments. I plan on posting this data on the tech threadhttp://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64907 as those guys breaking this stuff down are way smarter than I.

On another note for the American Stealth Riders, Stealth has a Cranksgiving promotion which can be found at http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com/stealth-usa-getting-thanksgiving-cranking/ Submit some scenic/action shots to sales@stealthelectricbikes.com. and get a free set of crank arms. I am assuming this is for both the Fighter ATS overdrive and Bomber Vboxx depending on what the rider is piloting. I can always use an extra set of extra crank arms as I sometimes hit rocks and bend them hell out of mine.

 

[morati]

Allex, I think the 5404 would work well on your Bomber even for someone as light as you. With your MaxE controller able to deal with loads of 150a and your battery pack which doesn't sag on power applications, its my opinion that it would be a better match than the 5403. It ran alot cooler during the very brief time I had it mounted. The speed wasn't the problem for me. It was all about the weight of the wheel and I didn't like it. Have yet to flat on a Duro however and my stock rim is still in perfect condition.

 

[Allex]

54xx series are monsters. They are like extinct dinosaurs.
When I used a cromotor it was a lot better in every way during a short test. Lighter, better acceleration more efficient and less heat building up.

Looks like high turn count motor is worse when you want to hot rod:

What I have taken from the "myth" conversations is this:

A higher-turn (Lower Kv) motor like the MXUS 5T has the ability to provide the same torque as the 4T with ~20% less phase amps needed at a given voltage. The only advantage to this that I can see is the ability to run smaller phase wires to the motor. (The stock phase wires from MXUS are 2.5mm2 or ~13 AWG, so not very big.)
The lower Kv motor will also reach peak efficiency at a lower speed (given the same voltage) than the higher Kv motor. - So if you don't want to ride fast all the time, the 5T is perfectly acceptable.

What you DON"T want to do is run the same high Phase Current that you might with a 4T motor as you would with a 5T motor, since you are more likely to toast the windings in the 5T motor.

I think what John in CR is saying is that if you want to Hot-Rod a motor, it's better to choose a lower-turn (Higher Kv) motor, since it can handle more phase amps than a lower Kv motor, or conversely, you can get the same performance with a lower voltage and higher phase current with a high Kv motor as opposed to the low Kv motor.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63142&start=675#p978572

 

[biknut]

I just spent fing hours squeezing fing grease into the fing v fing boxx.... Note to self get a syringe with a bigger opening at the end.... Damn that took for-fing-ever!! Mine had a metal needle that was large for a syringe but it can be much bigger for this purpose. I was worried that the tip may break off in the v-boxx with all of the force needed topush the grease through. Did anyone have trouble getting the syringe into the top left hole? I'm wondering if this could be done with a brake line pump or for that matter an air compressor (low pressure setting) and a long tube.

Why so complicated? I just attached a plastic hose to my grease gun. The inside diameter of the hose is about the same size as the port. No need to stick it inside the VBoxx, I just press the hose up against the port, and squeeze in the grease.

 

[1abv]

I had a very small syringe at 5ml so it took half an hour to put it in:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23996&p=860330&hilit=super+lube#p860330
Left hole is a bit of a problem but you could use a silicone hose or similar, otherwise you have to lift up the bike, remove the shock and lift up the swing arm to get a better access.

Allex I was actually looking at that very post while I was doing mine. Thanks for the write up! The amount of dirty grease that came out was less than I expected. Next time i'll try a larger syringe or possible use a pump of some kind.

TV the reason why I didn't use a grease gun was the grease that I got did not come in grease gun cartridges. Also there is no way to accurately measure the amount of grease that you are putting into the VBoxx with a grease gun. Sure you can guess and say I used 1/2 of the cartridge but Im a bit more anal than that.

Here was what I used with a tape measure for scale. Got it on amazon but I would not recommend it. The only thing I can say is the syringe I got is pretty durable.

 

[Rix]

54xx series are monsters. They are like extinct dinosaurs.
When I used a cromotor it was a lot better in every way during a short test. Lighter, better acceleration more efficient and less heat building up.

Looks like high turn count motor is worse when you want to hot rod:

What I have taken from the "myth" conversations is this:

A higher-turn (Lower Kv) motor like the MXUS 5T has the ability to provide the same torque as the 4T with ~20% less phase amps needed at a given voltage. The only advantage to this that I can see is the ability to run smaller phase wires to the motor. (The stock phase wires from MXUS are 2.5mm2 or ~13 AWG, so not very big.)
The lower Kv motor will also reach peak efficiency at a lower speed (given the same voltage) than the higher Kv motor. - So if you don't want to ride fast all the time, the 5T is perfectly acceptable.

What you DON"T want to do is run the same high Phase Current that you might with a 4T motor as you would with a 5T motor, since you are more likely to toast the windings in the 5T motor.

I think what John in CR is saying is that if you want to Hot-Rod a motor, it's better to choose a lower-turn (Higher Kv) motor, since it can handle more phase amps than a lower Kv motor, or conversely, you can get the same performance with a lower voltage and higher phase current with a high Kv motor as opposed to the low Kv motor.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63142&start=675#p978572

I posted my comment in the form of a question on the other thread.http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64907&start=100. John in CR's reply indicated that I was partially correct. That thread is filled with a bunch of brains, and not all of them agree with each other. The part of the equation I wasn't accounting for, nor did I take into consideration was the inductance load factor. This affects motors of different winds and how much current they consume at a given work load from the controller. This is also why Morati didn't notice an acceleration difference between the 5404 and 5403, even though ABV1 and I did. He wasn't maxing out the inductance load thresh hold on the 5403 so the 5404 didn't do anything for him except run cooler and have a lower top speed. I experienced the same thing going from the 5404 to 5405. Same amount of work was getting done with the 5405, but drawing 5-6 less DC amps doing it, also at the price of less top speed. Still wrapping my head around all this, then I learned that this isn't affected all that much by the amount of copper fill. That was the part I wasn't correct about. Thus the learning continues.

 

[biknut]

TV the reason why I didn't use a grease gun was the grease that I got did not come in grease gun cartridges. Also there is no way to accurately measure the amount of grease that you are putting into the VBoxx with a grease gun. Sure you can guess and say I used 1/2 of the cartridge but Im a bit more anal than that.

Here was what I used with a tape measure for scale. Got it on amazon but I would not recommend it. The only thing I can say is the syringe I got is pretty durable.

I have a very accurate method of applying the correct amount of grease, whether talking about wheel bearings, or VBoxx's. When the grease gets up to your armpits, it's time to stop.

 

[Rix]

I have a very accurate method of applying the correct amount of grease, whether talking about wheel bearings, or VBoxx's. When the grease gets up to your armpits, it's time to stop.
Theodore Voltaire10 kW
Posts: 868Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:41 pmLocation: Dallas

Thats some precise scientific measurements there.

 

[biknut]

I have a very accurate method of applying the correct amount of grease, whether talking about wheel bearings, or VBoxx's. When the grease gets up to your armpits, it's time to stop.
Theodore Voltaire10 kW
Posts: 868Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:41 pmLocation: Dallas

Thats some precise scientific measurements there.

I'm a real whiz with silicone sealer too.

 

[proper159]

Also, looks like going to a slower wind you gain nothing if you use same controller settings.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64907
POWER is the same for the same sized WHEEL, spinning at the same SPEED with the same LOAD, for ALL WINDS.

What do you mean Allex regarding winds?

 

[boars]

My bike should be arriving late next week... going to have to re-read this thread to find all the bits I need to get done to it... such as waterproof and whatever else

Think I might write a list as I go through... kinda getting a bit big to have a casual flick through.

I could google if I knew what I was looking for but then if I knew what I was looking for I probably wouldn't need to look

 

[proper159]

I'm going to get my Fox 40s looked at later this morning (not responding at all).

Man oh man...rode 70 km with my new MX wheel I bought from Morati...the torque on rough off road terrain was awesome tonight. Worked like a champ in the snow and on very wet/icy conditions. Certain sections on the road were a bit messed up regarding not being able to get over 70 km which became a bit hectic as cars I usually out run were on my ass big time in long hilly sections (was okay until started to lose a lot of speed). Overall. ..the wider profile of tge shinko SR241 gave me a ton of control on turns and through rough pot holes as well as more stability with my heavier backpack. I can still use my old stock motor to build a complete 19 inch set up. Be a great solution for the summer. My challenge this year is to ride through the extreme winters we have over here.

Post a pic. Glad you like the 5404. I think the reason Morati couldn't tell much difference between the 5403 and 5404 was he is so light. Lucky guy. I could easily loose 50 pounds and still weigh 2 something.

Yep will post a pic tomorrow. Just got my Fox 40s fixed today (the rubber around the coils - there are three in the left stantion bunched up in between the coils so I had zero travel). With the new MX + 5404 setup my Bomber is a beast in the trails.

I'm still adjusting to the difference between tge 5404 vs 5403. I miss the "freight train" (as described by TV) that I would get with the stock motor, but conditions are icy and snowy now so I'm alright for now with a slower/high torque wheel.

I reduced the speed ceiling to 80 km/hr to get more torque off the start. Was definitely a difference on my ride home tonight. Any suggestions on the wheel size setting in CA as well as what amps I should set the CA to? I'm still hitting close to 70 km/hr if I shift properly. I got the stunted over revolutions feel a few times earlier in the day...and 2 stall outs after accelerating (I thought I regened by accident). On pure ice the rear wheel skidded out for the first time so full time winter riding is going to be a major hurdle. Bought some incredible MTB boots by 45NRTH and a Sugoi shell to put over my pants as I'm getting completely soaked on my rides. The boots the most comfortable and warmest riding boots I've ever worn with the right stiffness since I have to pedal a lot more with the slower motor.

 

[proper159]

My bike should be arriving late next week... going to have to re-read this thread to find all the bits I need to get done to it... such as waterproof and whatever else

Think I might write a list as I go through... kinda getting a bit big to have a casual flick through.

I could google if I knew what I was looking for but then if I knew what I was looking for I probably wouldn't need to look

Since your Stealth has newer improvements you won't have to worry about the key or the screen getting water damage as much as my Bomber.

For the time being tape up your Hal connector with electrical tape so water doesn't short out the electrical connection. Buy lots of Razorbacks because you'll wear out the back tire pretty quickly if you ride a lot.

Source out washers that match the diameter of the rear axle nuts, specifically with grooves on the washer. Get locktite, and zip ties along with screw driver tire irons to begin building your emergency kit, you might have to change out a flat tube 25 km away from your location. Even walking 7.5 km to your destination rolling a Bomber is a pain in the butt.

 

[1abv]

I have a very accurate method of applying the correct amount of grease, whether talking about wheel bearings, or VBoxx's. When the grease gets up to your armpits, it's time to stop.
Theodore Voltaire10 kW
Posts: 868Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:41 pmLocation: Dallas

Thats some precise scientific measurements there.

I'm a real whiz with silicone sealer too.

PITS DEEP!!!

 

[Rix]

I'm going to get my Fox 40s looked at later this morning (not responding at all).

Man oh man...rode 70 km with my new MX wheel I bought from Morati...the torque on rough off road terrain was awesome tonight. Worked like a champ in the snow and on very wet/icy conditions. Certain sections on the road were a bit messed up regarding not being able to get over 70 km which became a bit hectic as cars I usually out run were on my ass big time in long hilly sections (was okay until started to lose a lot of speed). Overall. ..the wider profile of tge shinko SR241 gave me a ton of control on turns and through rough pot holes as well as more stability with my heavier backpack. I can still use my old stock motor to build a complete 19 inch set up. Be a great solution for the summer. My challenge this year is to ride through the extreme winters we have over here.

Post a pic. Glad you like the 5404. I think the reason Morati couldn't tell much difference between the 5403 and 5404 was he is so light. Lucky guy. I could easily loose 50 pounds and still weigh 2 something.

Yep will post a pic tomorrow. Just got my Fox 40s fixed today (the rubber around the coils - there are three in the left stantion bunched up in between the coils so I had zero travel). With the new MX + 5404 setup my Bomber is a beast in the trails.

I'm still adjusting to the difference between tge 5404 vs 5403. I miss the "freight train" (as described by TV) that I would get with the stock motor, but conditions are icy and snowy now so I'm alright for now with a slower/high torque wheel.

I reduced the speed ceiling to 80 km/hr to get more torque off the start. Was definitely a difference on my ride home tonight. Any suggestions on the wheel size setting in CA as well as what amps I should set the CA to? I'm still hitting close to 70 km/hr if I shift properly. I got the stunted over revolutions feel a few times earlier in the day...and 2 stall outs after accelerating (I thought I regened by accident). On pure ice the rear wheel skidded out for the first time so full time winter riding is going to be a major hurdle. Bought some incredible MTB boots by 45NRTH and a Sugoi shell to put over my pants as I'm getting completely soaked on my rides. The boots the most comfortable and warmest riding boots I've ever worn with the right stiffness since I have to pedal a lot more with the slower motor.

Set your CA @1940mm. That will give you a more accurate reading on velocity and distance. Formula is (OD) 24.2 x 3.141 (pie) x 25.4 (mm to inches) and you get about 1930mm. When I had that tire on my bike, 1930mm read just a hair short on a mile long calibration ride, talking about 30 feet short, bumping the mm of from 1930 to 1940 came out right on the dot for my one mile test ride. Calibration was done on the local high school track, after hours of course.

 

[Rix]

My bike should be arriving late next week... going to have to re-read this thread to find all the bits I need to get done to it... such as waterproof and whatever else

Think I might write a list as I go through... kinda getting a bit big to have a casual flick through.

I could google if I knew what I was looking for but then if I knew what I was looking for I probably wouldn't need to look

That's great Boars, what color did you get? Post some pics as well.

 

[Longshot]

Has anyone had trouble with the alignment of their sprockets? I took the rear off to fix a pinch flat. When I put it back on, i used a straight edge on the sprockets. It seems pretty off. I ordered an Eno 16T because the sprocket is worn a bit. Thats part of the problem. It seems like i need almost an extra 1/4 between the motor and the freewheels sprocket. Thats a lot. The outer face of my counter sprocket is wearing and none on the inside. Ill see where Im at when I get the Eno but is there any play in the VBOXX if I were to unbolt it and try to nudge it left. Now that I think of it, i did slam and bend the left crank a little. Maybe the vboxx moved? Any advice on how to go about the alignment? It sure doesnt look like there is any room for a freewheel spacer.

Also, my motor doesnt spin easily. It seems to have steps in it. When I spin my cromotor, its butter. Should it spin easier? I guess Ill pull it apart and check it out. Uhg.

 

[proper159]

I'm going to get my Fox 40s looked at later this morning (not responding at all).

Man oh man...rode 70 km with my new MX wheel I bought from Morati...the torque on rough off road terrain was awesome tonight. Worked like a champ in the snow and on very wet/icy conditions. Certain sections on the road were a bit messed up regarding not being able to get over 70 km which became a bit hectic as cars I usually out run were on my ass big time in long hilly sections (was okay until started to lose a lot of speed). Overall. ..the wider profile of tge shinko SR241 gave me a ton of control on turns and through rough pot holes as well as more stability with my heavier backpack. I can still use my old stock motor to build a complete 19 inch set up. Be a great solution for the summer. My challenge this year is to ride through the extreme winters we have over here.

Post a pic. Glad you like the 5404. I think the reason Morati couldn't tell much difference between the 5403 and 5404 was he is so light. Lucky guy. I could easily loose 50 pounds and still weigh 2 something.

Yep will post a pic tomorrow. Just got my Fox 40s fixed today (the rubber around the coils - there are three in the left stantion bunched up in between the coils so I had zero travel). With the new MX + 5404 setup my Bomber is a beast in the trails.

I'm still adjusting to the difference between tge 5404 vs 5403. I miss the "freight train" (as described by TV) that I would get with the stock motor, but conditions are icy and snowy now so I'm alright for now with a slower/high torque wheel.

I reduced the speed ceiling to 80 km/hr to get more torque off the start. Was definitely a difference on my ride home tonight. Any suggestions on the wheel size setting in CA as well as what amps I should set the CA to? I'm still hitting close to 70 km/hr if I shift properly. I got the stunted over revolutions feel a few times earlier in the day...and 2 stall outs after accelerating (I thought I regened by accident). On pure ice the rear wheel skidded out for the first time so full time winter riding is going to be a major hurdle. Bought some incredible MTB boots by 45NRTH and a Sugoi shell to put over my pants as I'm getting completely soaked on my rides. The boots the most comfortable and warmest riding boots I've ever worn with the right stiffness since I have to pedal a lot more with the slower motor.

Set your CA @1940mm. That will give you a more accurate reading on velocity and distance. Formula is (OD) 24.2 x 3.141 (pie) x 25.4 (mm to inches) and you get about 1930mm. When I had that tire on my bike, 1930mm read just a hair short on a mile long calibration ride, talking about 30 feet short, bumping the mm of from 1930 to 1940 came out right on the dot for my one mile test ride. Calibration was done on the local high school track, after hours of course.

Thx Rix, is that for the 18 inch wheel + tire (I.e. 24.2)?

 

[1abv]

well I finally did it...Broke the 1am per mile barrier. I took the bomber out to a local hidden mx track today. Its been raining here for the past few days so the ground was really soft. It had a few mini ponds in some banked turns.. Wound up doing 12 miles used 16.8 amp hrs. chasing down my bud on his 350.. The track was small enough for me to keep up but damn what a fun way to burn some watts! He was shooting vid i'll see if I can grab it from him..

 

[biknut]

Has anyone had trouble with the alignment of their sprockets? I took the rear off to fix a pinch flat. When I put it back on, i used a straight edge on the sprockets. It seems pretty off. I ordered an Eno 16T because the sprocket is worn a bit. Thats part of the problem. It seems like i need almost an extra 1/4 between the motor and the freewheels sprocket. Thats a lot. The outer face of my counter sprocket is wearing and none on the inside. Ill see where Im at when I get the Eno but is there any play in the VBOXX if I were to unbolt it and try to nudge it left. Now that I think of it, i did slam and bend the left crank a little. Maybe the vboxx moved? Any advice on how to go about the alignment? It sure doesnt look like there is any room for a freewheel spacer.

Also, my motor doesnt spin easily. It seems to have steps in it. When I spin my cromotor, its butter. Should it spin easier? I guess Ill pull it apart and check it out. Uhg.

It's possible that your swing arm is not centered. I noticed when I replaced my swing arm bearings there's a lot of room on both sides to move the swing arm side to side on the pivots.

I think it's normal for our motors to have some magnetic drag that you can feel when turning the rear wheel by hand.

 

[boars]

My bike should be arriving late next week... going to have to re-read this thread to find all the bits I need to get done to it... such as waterproof and whatever else

Think I might write a list as I go through... kinda getting a bit big to have a casual flick through.

I could google if I knew what I was looking for but then if I knew what I was looking for I probably wouldn't need to look

That's great Boars, what color did you get? Post some pics as well.

Went with white, wanted to colour match the wheels... balked at the $600 it costs to do so... wanted to match the spring... $200? No thanks. Think I'd rather get some white moto rims and upgrade my wheels to something more durable and capable of putting on a nice half dirt/road kind of tyre? Also want to switch the front forks to something better (hopefully also white).

These will have to wait till I sell my EXC450... I'll miss her but there's just nowhere to ride anymore and none of my mates ride anymore so eh.

Getting pretty excited - although hoping I don't have any issues - I have to ride it home over 50km as it wont fit in my car.

I'm starting to see why it's called endless sphere... the spending... it'll never end. My wallet wishes it would

 

[proper159]

5404 definitely uses more power over a 55 km route I take everyday. I might have gone too hard during a 5 km road segment just so the cars wouldn't run me down.

Usually, the first 10 km I do about 3.5 Ah but hit 4.5 ah and even though I was pedaling and going 25 to 35 km/hr, my average per 10 km was suffering big time. Granted it's -1 celcius with a tough headwind. Luckily I found a gas station to get a 30 minute charge in to cover the last 10 km.

Later in the afternoon on my second and third leg of my daily commute (another 75 km), I raised the speed ceiling to 85 km/hr up from 80 km. It was pretty drastic h9w much more stable the motor felt. I also figured out the potential of full throttle while shifting into 9th gear and then blasting the throttle. The torque and acceleration definitely trump the 5403. I hit upwards of 70+ km/hr but it dies out in about 400 m or less. On longer hills, I saw my voltage drop down past 69 volts and the motor would have issues with a potential battery shut down just around the corner even though I was hovering around 77 to 79 volts when I lay off the throttle. Now I see why you need a stronger controller with this motor.

 

[Jimboyr6]

well I finally did it...Broke the 1am per mile barrier. I took the bomber out to a local hidden mx track today. Its been raining here for the past few days so the ground was really soft. It had a few mini ponds in some banked turns.. Wound up doing 12 miles used 16.8 amp hrs. chasing down my bud on his 350.. The track was small enough for me to keep up but damn what a fun way to burn some watts! He was shooting vid i'll see if I can grab it from him..

This is a video id like to see,just think if we could ride flat out like that for longer would b great

 

[Allex]

Proper it could be the cold that makes you consumption to go high. Not the motor.