E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[CJonaBttlrckt]

Thanks Rix, found it over here.
Cheers

Hey Clinton, here is a good candidate for a 3.5-17 trials tire. Check it out. http://www.veerubber.co.th/2013/?p=643&cur-cat=motorcycle

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Very nicely done CD. look forward to hearing about your field testing and evaluation.

Thanks Rick. Yeah, testing to come of course, but the ultimate testing will be when it's in the hands of guy's like you.

CD,

Will your torque blocks work with at QS205?

I think the standard QS205 has a 16mm axle. I'll have a play with the sizing and let you know, but increasing the width much more may compromise it's performance for 1/2" axle motors. You could always increase the width of a standard one using a dremel or similar. It would not work with the 12mm flats QS205 axle as the flats on this torque block are 10mm.

CD,

Could you get them done in Hardox?

I would be interested in getting a set.

Thanks.

Hardox would be great, but I'm really trying to keep costs down so these are affordable for everyone. The design lends itself well to softer metals, and I could even get them made out of mild steel and they would work....but I won't as I want better quality than that.

Cheers

 

[Samd]

Clinton I didn't realise - couldve sold you an m16axle mxus instead of an m14 mxus but that new axle does look the goods. Some impressive machining.

CD I think hardox would be overkill. The replacement m16 torque blocks I fitted to Sundrives stealth seem to be holding up fine. I posted them a few pages back. They replace the standard tugs and you can mount extras internally.

If anyone wants the CAD let me know. I have been using these on all kinds of bikes now. The cutout on the narrow end takes an m6 bolt for the chain tug on a stealth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Thanks for the input Sam. Yeah, I'm thinking I will need to keep costs down to a minimum as with only 2 people interested so far, I can't really get the 30-50 made I was originally planning. Probably more like 10 is realistic.

Any tips on a local fab place I can get them CNC'd at?
I've been working with Applied Automation & Engineering, but the prices seem a little too high TBH.

Cheers

 

[Emmett]

CD, I'm interested in your torque blocks. To fit on the flats on my TC30 14mm axle inside the swingarm. Cheaper steel is fine. A good grade alum would be nice. Possible? Just one side would be ok I think.

Clinton, I'm interested in your 17" rim with 3.25 tyre. Where did you buy that rim from and how wide did you go for? With a 3.25" tyre at say 12 PSI on 17" rim I'm guessing you could hammer over just about anything. Also what does your V3 motor weigh (hub+axle)?

Last week I was riding with 18 PSI in my 2.75x19 VRM-021 trial tyre (1.6 wide rim) and I got a MC tube pinch flat so bad that it also cut the sidewall clean through. With Tubliss there is so much less risk of that. But also I could go for an 18" rim, and now you've gone 17!

More tyre is certainly the solution for fast+rough offroad riding and these 8kg hub motors.

Good to see you going for oil cooling. It's so simple and effective. I use 90ml of castor oil. No smell. Very easy to seal the axle slot and the side covers. My favorite sealant is now Permatex "Ultra Black" RTV sealant. It's a gasket type oil resistant silicone used. Despite the name, it's actually grey in colour.

With oil cooling and some of those hub fins for heat dissipation, I'm guessing I could get away with a lighter motor, maybe 6kg, and still pump bursts of 6500W through it.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

CD, I'm interested in your torque blocks. To fit on the flats on my TC30 14mm axle inside the swingarm. Cheaper steel is fine. A good grade alum would be nice. Possible? Just one side would be ok I think.

Good to know.
I'm in the process of getting the first prototypes made in steel. Cost is still pretty high, but a bit more reasonable. I did also get a quote for them in 7075 Aluminium, but they were only about $5 cheaper each, so not really worth it IMO.
If I go ahead with them in Steel, based on interest so far, I will only get 10 made. They will cost about $95 per side + shipping.

With oil cooling and some of those hub fins for heat dissipation, I'm guessing I could get away with a lighter motor, maybe 6kg, and still pump bursts of 6500W through it.

Indeed!
Before I blew my controller, I was pumping 7.8KW through my 7.2KG Leaf motor using forced air cooling and some hub heat-sinks attached. With my replacement controller on hand I will limit power to 6, maybe 7KW, to prevent another controller blow up.
A 6KG hub that can take 6.5KW is entirely possible, but I don't know of any that are made currently. The '1500W' 35mm Leaf is the closest I know of.

Cheers

 

[Emmett]

I'm in the process of getting the first prototypes made in steel. Cost is still pretty high, but a bit more reasonable. I did also get a quote for them in 7075 Aluminium, but they were only about $5 cheaper each, so not really worth it IMO.

Wow, 7075 alum is cheaper!? We wont shear one of those off. And your nice design would avoid freeplay and alum wear on the axle clamp part. Why don't we go for 7075? That material is great. I know the weight diff will be small. But it all adds up! Count me in for one part. Steel or alum. I'm trying to make my bike more rugged in every way possible.

Yeah I must get some of those hub ring fins. Will go search for more info. eg. width and cost and how best to bond them for best thermal transfer.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Wow, 7075 alum is cheaper!? We wont shear one of those off. And your nice design would avoid freeplay and alum wear on the axle clamp part. Why don't we go for 7075? That material is great. I know the weight diff will be small. But it all adds up! Count me in for one part. Steel or alum. I'm trying to make my bike more rugged in every way possible.

I considered 7075 alum, however I didn't want the hassle of steel on alum galvanic corrosion from the bolts and contact with the swing-arm. Even with anodising the amount of force/stress on those components could easily wear through.
I want these torque blocks to be solid and last a long time, so I'm going the steel route.
I would recommend getting 2 also because these torque blocks may transfer the reaction torque forces to different parts of the dropouts compared to the standard torque blocks. What I'm saying is, it's better to keep the forces even between both sides of the axle/drop outs rather than just one side taking most/more of the forces.

Yeah I must get some of those hub ring fins. Will go search for more info. eg. width and cost and how best to bond them for best thermal transfer.

You can buy them now:
https://hubsink.com/

Reports are that they work great. I would agree based on my own experience with the thermally epoxied heat sinks I added to my motors a while back.

If I were doing it again, for sure I would go the hubsink route, but they didn't exist when I first starting playing around with this approach.

Cheers

 

[CJonaBttlrckt]

Clinton, I'm interested in your 17" rim with 3.25 tyre. Where did you buy that rim from and how wide did you go for? With a 3.25" tyre at say 12 PSI on 17" rim I'm guessing you could hammer over just about anything. Also what does your V3 motor weigh (hub+axle)?

Last week I was riding with 18 PSI in my 2.75x19 VRM-021 trial tyre (1.6 wide rim) and I got a MC tube pinch flat so bad that it also cut the sidewall clean through. With Tubliss there is so much less risk of that. But also I could go for an 18" rim, and now you've gone 17!

More tyre is certainly the solution for fast+rough offroad riding and these 8kg hub motors.

Good to see you going for oil cooling. It's so simple and effective. I use 90ml of castor oil. No smell. Very easy to seal the axle slot and the side covers. My favorite sealant is now Permatex "Ultra Black" RTV sealant. It's a gasket type oil resistant silicone used. Despite the name, it's actually grey in colour.

With oil cooling and some of those hub fins for heat dissipation, I'm guessing I could get away with a lighter motor, maybe 6kg, and still pump bursts of 6500W through it.

Hi Emmett,
1.4 wide; the narrower the better to reduce risk of sidewall damage.
I am currently running 3.5x17 Kenda knobby in lieu of a 3.5 trials tyre, as the knobby is just too obtrusive (see original post re the MXUS setup) and I'm paranoid about attracting attention.
Unfortunately no Tubliss in 17". I nearly went 18" so I could use Tubliss again, though I'm glad I didn't, as I reckon I've squeezed in more tyre with 17" such that I've negated the need for another Tubliss.
I have to say with the std crystalite controller, even with castor oil it is getting hot. I am currently replacing the controller and have ordered a set of hubsinks to hopefully better control heat.
The rim and 8 gauge spokes I purchased through Chivo's (Doug) at Granville. He drilled the rim spot on ready for me to lace up.
I still haven't weighed the wheel setup (I will try do so when I swap to the trials tyre though I don't have scales). Suffice to say with the big tyre and the 5-6kg weight reduction, it's heaps better on rough rocky trails. It tracks so much straighter and cleaner over the rough.
Cheers,
Clinton

 

[1abv]

Have you fellas running 17" (Rick et al)….rims noticed any downfalls to it? As most of you know I ride 90% off road and dont really care to much about street. Is there anything bad about running 17" rim? I don't run tubeless so that wouldn't be an issue It seems that 17" would give me more torque, but if there is anything that Im missing be good to know. Thanks

On another note has anyone had issues with cleaning on those hubsinks? seems like it would be an issue with riding in dirt...

 

[Cowardlyduck]

On another note has anyone had issues with cleaning on those hubsinks? seems like it would be an issue with riding in dirt...

I can't speak for the hubsinks directly, but on my shorter heat sinks it's not too bad.
I still haven't fully cleaned my bike since my very muddy ride the other week and I was looking over it today.

The heat sinks do have some dirt/mud on them, but it's minimal and nothing I can't easily wipe off with a brush and/or wet wipe.

I think because most dirt/mud is flung out from the wheel the heat sinks don't attract too much. If the mud made it 1/4 up your wheel you might find it hard to remove from the hubsinks, but then you've probably got other issues also.

Cheers

 

[CJonaBttlrckt]

Have you fellas running 17" (Rick et al)….rims noticed any downfalls to it? As most of you know I ride 90% off road and dont really care to much about street. Is there anything bad about running 17" rim? I don't run tubeless so that wouldn't be an issue It seems that 17" would give me more torque, but if there is anything that Im missing be good to know. Thanks

On another note has anyone had issues with cleaning on those hubsinks? seems like it would be an issue with riding in dirt...

So far no!
I was concerned the 17" rim would significantly reduce ground clearance and change the steering head angle, affecting steering. Obviously the latter can be addressed by lowering the triple crowns on the forks, though this will make any ground clearance issues worse.
In reality the 3.5" kenda knobby seems about 50mm smaller in circumference and about 15mm smaller in diameter than a new 2.75x19 shinko trials tyre I had on for a week, before I holed the sidewall on what didn't seem like much at the time.
The size reduction is not as much as I expected.
There is quite a difference between the 2.75x19 Shinko and another 3.00x17 tyre I have. The 3.00x17 is about 115mm smaller in circumference. It is markedly smaller in diameter when compared next to the 19" tyre.
In short I don't think there is much in it provided you go for a narrow 1.4" rim that will allow for maximum size/volume tyre, i.e 3.25" or ideally 3.5".
As I've stated previously the improvement of the bigger volume tyre in the rough is exactly what I was after, particularly combined with the reduced unsprung weight from the lighter hub.
See
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=55458&p=1237673&hilit=bicycle+mc+rim#p1237673

Re mud and cleaning the hubsinks.
If needed I will just give it a gentle hose as I'm pretty well sealed up everywhere.
As CD intimates, I suspect centrifugal force should sort it, if not when riding then on the stand at full thottle. This practice is recommended outside of course, as I suspect it would be similar in some ways to my flying dog feaces experience of some months ago in the shed, minus the odour of course!
Cheers

 

[Rix]

Have you fellas running 17" (Rick et al)….rims noticed any downfalls to it? As most of you know I ride 90% off road and dont really care to much about street. Is there anything bad about running 17" rim? I don't run tubeless so that wouldn't be an issue It seems that 17" would give me more torque, but if there is anything that Im missing be good to know. Thanks

On another note has anyone had issues with cleaning on those hubsinks? seems like it would be an issue with riding in dirt...

They only negative about running a 17MC wheel is aesthetics and a little un-suspended weight increase. Otherwise, its a win everywhere compared to a MTB wheel/tire combo.

 

[Emmett]

Clinton, Thanks for the insight on the 17" tyre option. I thought the spoke count would be an issue with a 17" "mini" rim.

As far as the cooling fins clogging up, I cannot imagine a problem. At riding speed mud will fling out. At end of ride I'll just wash it like I always do. Sealed hub so no issue. Just light water when it's hot, then give it a minute and blast it clean. Just like a real dirt bike. Too easy.

 

[Brute]

Been loving these after work rides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIiivBDB6pw

 

[Rix]

Been loving these after work rides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIiivBDB6pw

[youtube]mIiivBDB6pw[/youtube]

Neat video

 

[litespeed]

Nice video but for me I'd have to have two lights going riding when really dark. Loosing a light would make it really tuff to get out of the woods.

Tom

 

[Rix]

Nice video but for me I'd have to have two lights going riding when really dark. Loosing a light would make it really tuff to get out of the woods.

Tom

Funny you mentioned that Tom, I had intentions this year of doing some night riding on trails that are frequented by MTBrs during the day time. Never got around to it so I never purchased a dual bike light setup. Anywho, I rode my Fighter to work about a month ago and had a mount that I clamped my flashlight too on the handle bar. Well, it either burned out or the just plain broke on the ride home. In the city limits, there's enough street lightening to slowly ride. But outside, if no moon, its dark, like looking at black coffee. So there i am riding in the dark, going about 5MPH and can't see crap in front of me. So, to your point, dual lights is a good idea.

 

[Brute]

Nice video but for me I'd have to have two lights going riding when really dark. Loosing a light would make it really tuff to get out of the woods.

Tom

Very observant of you . I was spewin I left the battery for my helmet light at home .

 

[Emmett]

Night riding would open up some great options!

Any problems with one of these?

"Waterproof 12V-80V Universal Motorcycle E-bike LED Modified Headlight Lamp 20W" http://r.ebay.com/LkztwR

Just $10, including post from Honkers!

Plug it into my battery's frame mounted charge port and bam. Brightness!

What's the catch? Don't mention bad looks. It'd just be me out there. OK with lots of animals and the occasional sasquatch or alien.

 

[Emmett]

Thinking about charge plug/ports ...

What's the best frame mounted plug/port type option to replace the stock Fighter's XLR plug?

I don't like the XLR plug because I cannot solder fat 10 AWG wires onto those tiny pin legs without melting everything.

Or maybe someone knows of a high amp type male XLR plug?

I've only found variations of these shitty things http://r.ebay.com/TvpDKo

 

[Allex]

Why would you want to have 10AWG on the charging port?
The charger is rated at 6A so a 16AWG would be more than enough.

DIY guys in here uses Neutrik Speakon so they can charge with up to 30A it has 4 terminals so you can split your cable and use 2 terminal for each polarity.
This connector is really high quality and very sturdy,
Fake(low price):
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-x-4-Pole-Male-Speakon-Connector-Head-Line-Plug-for-Cable-NEUTRIK-NL4FC-/122100184597?hash=item1c6dbcf615:g:kU4AAOSw65FXvsWi
Genuine:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Genuine-Neutrik-Speakon-NL4FX-4-pin-Speaker-Connector-/311637444625?hash=item488f0a0811:g:a0QAAOSwImRYHQN~
Female:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Neutrik-NL4MP-4-pin-Speaker-Socket-Jack-/111473080548?hash=item19f45038e4:g:NywAAOSwal5YHQNt
Dust Cap:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Neutrik-SCD-W-Water-Resistant-Dust-Cap-Sealing-Gasket-for-D-Size-Panel-Sockets-/111888140743?hash=item1a0d0d89c7:g:ITsAAOSwnbZYHk5S

 

[Emmett]

Thanks Allex. They look great.

I use 10 AWG because my charge cable is 6m long and I often do stuff in the garage which could damage the cable despite trying to keep the cable out of harms way. So I wanted the thick insulation too. Also, I want something like this baby one day. To juice up the bike in a hurry. http://r.ebay.com/zgCepQ

 

[Allex]

You could use a regular AC cable with extra thick insulation for outdoor use
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-Blue-Mains-Arctic-Grade-Cable-3-Core-3-x-1-5mm-13A-240v-Outdoor-3183AG-/290781427425?hash=item43b3ec76e1:g:kLsAAOxySoJTS6mh

Regarding that PSU, Bomber battery is 18Ah and you don't want to charge faster than 9A(half of the capacity is a thumb rule) if you do you will shorten its lifespan

 

[Emmett]

Allex, Understood re fast charging and battery life. But I do want the option for rare needs and I'll only do it at around medium charge levels and when I know all cells are healthy. I'm using LiPo bricks in 18S with CD's wiring harness.