E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[Kepler]

Thanks Sam.

My next door neighbour has a Leaf. Awesome car. He has let me drive it a few times. Feels like a 1.8l. They really have this car well sorted.

The rack needed a few extra brackets and Mods for the Fighter to fit. Nothing too difficult though. I will post some better pictures of the way its secured tomorrow.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Well that did not take long. Took a low speed spill last nite and cracked the handlebars, bent the crankshaft so much it can't make a full revolution. Probably a broken hand too.

Sucks...but at least the repairs should work. Let us know how it goes bending the crank back.

I had my first stack the other day to. Was going round a 90 Degree bend on a bike path in the wet and the front slid out on me. Thought I had bent my crank to...but it just so happens that the day before I had ordered some new pedals. Put em on today, and it turns out only the pedal was bent...phew. :lol:

My new pedals are SPD cleats. Had a quick go on them and they work really well. Glad I got em. As for the Schlumpf button...it isn't possible to hit it with the cleats in the full back position on my shoes, which is often the most comfortable position. I re-adjusted the cleats further forward and quickly retested without going for a ride, and it looks like it should be possible to still hit the button without having to clip out if I position them in the mid position on the shoe. Not the most comfortable, but I'm willing to compromise a little in order to use the Schlumpf still.

Even if I can't easily hit the button, it's no big drama, as I've now got a derailleur installed (thanks to Voicecoils @ Gloworm) so I can use it for most of my gear changes.

I've only had front brakes for the last week or so, since one of my rear brake pads fell out when the clip holding the pin disappeared and the pin worked it's way out. Haven't been riding much as a result, but when I have, I've noticed that the front brakes seem to be getting weaker. I can now pull the lever as hard as I possibly can without locking up the front when at speed.

Is that just cause I got the 'Standard' 4 pot Gator brakes? Or is there something I can adjust to improve braking force?

Cheers

 

[QMS]

Hey guys here's a vid I took a while ago a bit long winded but it has some good roads and some good dynamics. This ride is one of the reasons I changed to the hookworms from the crazybobs. They were a bit dodgy under hard cornering.
[youtube]Jvdjqdd4qp8[/youtube]

 

[Kepler]

Well the little BPM is officially toast.

At least I found the limit of the motor. I rode the bike as hard as I could which meant it spent the majority of its time on this ride at over 2000W.

One thing I love about these motors are that its so easy to remove the motor assembly out of the hub. No need to re lace the wheel, just slot in a new motor assembly. $200 and about an hours work in total and the bike is up and running again. I think I will leave the current limit where it is for now and just be a little kinder to the motor in future. Might look at adding a temp sensor too.

I thought the little 6FET controller would be the first thing to pop under these conditions but I am finding its hardly getting warm even under off road conditions. Having the frame as a huge heat sink is no doubt helping. 8)

 

[Kepler]

Well that did not take long. Took a low speed spill last nite and cracked the handlebars, bent the crankshaft so much it can't make a full revolution. Probably a broken hand too.

Sucks...but at least the repairs should work. Let us know how it goes bending the crank back.

I had my first stack the other day to. Was going round a 90 Degree bend on a bike path in the wet and the front slid out on me. Thought I had bent my crank to...but it just so happens that the day before I had ordered some new pedals. Put em on today, and it turns out only the pedal was bent...phew. :lol:

My new pedals are SPD cleats. Had a quick go on them and they work really well. Glad I got em. As for the Schlumpf button...it isn't possible to hit it with the cleats in the full back position on my shoes, which is often the most comfortable position. I re-adjusted the cleats further forward and quickly retested without going for a ride, and it looks like it should be possible to still hit the button without having to clip out if I position them in the mid position on the shoe. Not the most comfortable, but I'm willing to compromise a little in order to use the Schlumpf still.

Even if I can't easily hit the button, it's no big drama, as I've now got a derailleur installed (thanks to Voicecoils @ Gloworm) so I can use it for most of my gear changes.

I've only had front brakes for the last week or so, since one of my rear brake pads fell out when the clip holding the pin disappeared and the pin worked it's way out. Haven't been riding much as a result, but when I have, I've noticed that the front brakes seem to be getting weaker. I can now pull the lever as hard as I possibly can without locking up the front when at speed.

Is that just cause I got the 'Standard' 4 pot Gator brakes? Or is there something I can adjust to improve braking force?

Cheers

I think its time to replace the brake pads all round on the bike. The stock 6 pot Gator's are plenty for the Fighter (and Bomber) I would say you have overheated the front brakes and the pads have glazed. You could try removing the front pads and de glazing them with sand paper. Needs to be reasonably corse, say 180 git. Place the sand paper on a nice flat surface like a sheet of glass and rub the pads on the sand paper in a lapping motion (figure 8). Not too much, just enough to get the shine off.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

I think its time to replace the brake pads all round on the bike. The stock 6 pot Gator's are plenty for the Fighter (and Bomber) I would say you have overheated the front brakes and the pads have glazed. You could try removing the front pads and de glazing them with sand paper. Needs to be reasonably corse, say 180 git. Place the sand paper on a nice flat surface like a sheet of glass and rub the pads on the sand paper in a lapping motion (figure 8). Not too much, just enough to get the shine off.

Really? I haven't even put 3000km on the bike yet. Never had Glazing mean a bike looses so much stopping power before. I had 180mm disc brakes on my Norco. The pads Glazed, but I never changed them in 5 years as they still had more than enough stopping power to lock up the wheels. Mind you it only weighed 20Kg.

How often have others with Stealth's had to change their brake pads so far?

Kepler, reckon it would be worth me upgrading to the 6 pot brakes if I'm overheating the 4 pots? Mine came standard with 4 Pots, not 6.

Cheers

 

[Kepler]

if you are thinking of upgrading your brakes, go with the Magura MT-2. You can pick them up on ebay for a good price. This is what I have on my Fighter. Best brakes I have used.

 

[QuaziModo]

Congratulations on the new bike. Sounds like its going great. Bonus on the top speed too. 8) 1400W sounds about right for FF on flat ground.

If the bike is being used more for commuting then off road, then the 40 tooth makes sense especially with your extra speed.

Post some picture of the new ride. Its sounds like you are in AUS by the fact you are talking kph. What state are you in?

Yeah I think a decrease in cadence from 36:14 to 40:14 gearing should be good. Actually I can't even remember if the rear is 14 I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm in Townsville North Queensland. Is anyone else in this part of the world?

 

[Paul_G]

I think its time to replace the brake pads all round on the bike. The stock 6 pot Gator's are plenty for the Fighter (and Bomber) I would say you have overheated the front brakes and the pads have glazed. You could try removing the front pads and de glazing them with sand paper. Needs to be reasonably corse, say 180 git. Place the sand paper on a nice flat surface like a sheet of glass and rub the pads on the sand paper in a lapping motion (figure 8). Not too much, just enough to get the shine off.

Really? I haven't even put 3000km on the bike yet. Never had Glazing mean a bike looses so much stopping power before. I had 180mm disc brakes on my Norco. The pads Glazed, but I never changed them in 5 years as they still had more than enough stopping power to lock up the wheels. Mind you it only weighed 20Kg.

How often have others with Stealth's had to change their brake pads so far?

Kepler, reckon it would be worth me upgrading to the 6 pot brakes if I'm overheating the 4 pots? Mine came standard with 4 Pots, not 6.

Cheers

OMG....3000 km?

Change the pads

 

[Rix]

Robohead,
Just watched your vid, doesn't look like much damage at all. Looking at your crank, I think it can be bent back with out to much concern for fatigue. After you straighten the crank, put your bike is 7th gear and mash on the pedals as hard as you can from stand still. As long as there is no flex, your good to go. Looking at some of the pics of damaged Vboxx cranks on this forum, I think they made a little soft/flexy. I'm betting that Suntour engineered the cranks to be flexy so the Vboxx case and tranny wouldn't get damaged in a spill. I would look at getting a different set of bars. Answer protaper DH bars can be had for 50 USD on ebay. The weigh about 340 grams (about 3/4 of a pound).

Kepler,
That is an awesome fighter transport vehicle and rack you have. 8) Let me guess, just in case you need to get to the trail head real fast? BTW, I was wondering, did your BMC's planatery gears show any signs of excessive wear? Looks like you can smell how smoked the stator is. Thats some real world R&D you did. Now you know much the BMC can handle. Yesterday I hit 57 MPH (91 kmh) WOT and pedaling my ass off down a slight pave decline. I gonna see if my friend can get a picture on his radar unit with me in the back ground going this fast.

Quazi,
Glad you are enjoying the fighter. At a body weight of 65kg, you could get rid of the rear break and be just fine with the regen. When I first got my bomber, I was at 118 kg (260#). I am down to 111kg now (245#). Seems like the more I lose, the faster my bomber gets! :lol:

 

[robohead]

Robohead,
Just watched your vid, doesn't look like much damage at all. Looking at your crank, I think it can be bent back with out to much concern for fatigue. After you straighten the crank, put your bike is 7th gear and mash on the pedals as hard as you can from stand still. As long as there is no flex, your good to go. Looking at some of the pics of damaged Vboxx cranks on this forum, I think they made a little soft/flexy. I'm betting that Suntour engineered the cranks to be flexy so the Vboxx case and tranny wouldn't get damaged in a spill. I would look at getting a different set of bars. Answer protaper DH bars can be had for 50 USD on ebay. The weigh about 340 grams (about 3/4 of a pound).

I'm about to go buy a vice now at the home depot, and see if I can straiten out the crank some. The caveman tactic of brute force with the hammer just makes a lot of noise with no results.
As for the handlebars I think I'm with you on replacing them. The vid does not really show the amount of damage there really is. If there is metal under that carbon, then it's bent. Taking a magnet to them does not show that's there any metal under the carbon. Tapping on them does not sound like there is any Al or other non magnetic metals under there either. Looks like Amazon beats ebays prices out again.
http://www.amazon.com/Answer-PROTAPER-780-BLACK-RISE/dp/B005Z28GH2 unless you were referring to the Carbon ones.

 

[robohead]

I'm about to go buy a vice now at the home depot, and see if I can straiten out the crank some. The caveman tactic of brute force with the hammer just makes a lot of noise with no results.

First attempt to straining them out looks to help a little, but with only one functional hand, it's proving a little tricky to get it aligned the way I need it to be for the bending process.. Guess I need to heal up a bit more first.

 

[Kepler]

Kepler,
That is an awesome fighter transport vehicle and rack you have. 8) Let me guess, just in case you need to get to the trail head real fast? BTW, I was wondering, did your BMC's planatery gears show any signs of excessive wear? Looks like you can smell how smoked the stator is. Thats some real world R&D you did. Now you know much the BMC can handle. Yesterday I hit 57 MPH (91 kmh) WOT and pedaling my ass off down a slight pave decline. I gonna see if my friend can get a picture on his radar unit with me in the back ground going this fast.

Thanks Rix. Both are nice toys. The car runs a 6.2l Corvette motor so it goes reasonably well too 8)

Gears in the BPM (different motor to a BMC but similar) are like brand new. Certainly now know how hard I can push the motor now and definitely still happy with the motor / bike combo After that last ride, it was the first time I could smell the motor so I knew it wasnt going to be good. :lol:

Your bike is faster then my modified Bomber. That's the highest speed I heard of on a Stealth Bike. 8)

 

[Kepler]

I'm about to go buy a vice now at the home depot, and see if I can straiten out the crank some. The caveman tactic of brute force with the hammer just makes a lot of noise with no results.

First attempt to straining them out looks to help a little, but with only one functional hand, it's proving a little tricky to get it aligned the way I need it to be for the bending process.. Guess I need to heal up a bit more first.

The cranks are easy to straighten (even one handed) with the right tools.

Presuming you have a good sized vice, hold the bottom bracket end of the crank in the vise with soft jaws so as not to damage it. Get a 1 metre length of thick walled steel water pipe that slips over the end of the crank. Wrap some rag around the crank before you slip the pipe on so it doesn't get damaged. With all this leverage, it will be a piece of cake to then straighten the crank back up again.

 

[cruzxia]

Kepler
Bad luck with the BPM cooking.
When you get it going again, you may find that this helps with the motor temperature when riding off road, I found that limiting the power in the CA when riding off road, drastically drops the motor temperature.
On my bomber I ride a 3km loop at the local MTB area.

If the current is set at 65A the motor is quite hot at the end of the 3km loop
If the current is set to 40A I have to ride the 3km loop 3 times for the motor to get to the same temperature.

I don't ride the loop any slower at 40A as it is all slowish twisty riding.

What happens at 65A is that you cant keep the throttle steady, so it ends up with plenty of full current peaks that just heat up the motor without any gain.

I would try 22A on your BPM when next riding off road.

FYI the new CA v3 has the ability to monitor temperature, if you add a thermocouple to the motor. You can set it to wind back the power when the motor gets to warm. I just ordered one for my project bike, I will advise once tested.

Cruzxia

 

[voicecoils]

I'm about to go buy a vice now at the home depot, and see if I can straiten out the crank some. The caveman tactic of brute force with the hammer just makes a lot of noise with no results.

First attempt to straining them out looks to help a little, but with only one functional hand, it's proving a little tricky to get it aligned the way I need it to be for the bending process.. Guess I need to heal up a bit more first.

The cranks are easy to straighten (even one handed) with the right tools.

Presuming you have a good sized vice, hold the bottom bracket end of the crank in the vise with soft jaws so as not to damage it. Get a 1 metre length of thick walled steel water pipe that slips over the end of the crank. Wrap some rag around the crank before you slip the pipe on so it doesn't get damaged. With all this leverage, it will be a piece of cake to then straighten the crank back up again.

I think it's worth noting that both the Fighter and Bomber's crank arms are reasonably priced so simply replacing them should be considered.

When they are bent and twisted, it can be much trickier to bend back to the correct form. But, it's easy to test if they are straight again once on the bike - even if they're off by a tiny bit, peddling will feel seriously weird!

Bending aluminium alloys seriously weakens them, so take care if you choose to bend back vs replacing.

 

[Rix]

Kepler,
I was going down a slight hill WOT and pedaling in 9th gear with my cadence way over a hundred RPMs when I hit 57 mph/91kmh. On the flat no pedaling my bomber goes 52 mph/86kmh with me tucked out of the wind. There is deffinately something going on with breaking in batteries. My first couple of rides, I took it easy and only breifly went WOT. At around 1050 watts, my voltage would read about 78 and blipping the throttle showed my voltage drop to 71-72. Now after I have used over 1,300 watts, my ca still show about 77-78 volts sitting no load. Under full load at this point, my voltage only drops to 72-73 volts. Also, fresh charge my max current draw was almost 5 KW under load. This is the stock, I haven't touched nothing yet. I think I am going to vent the hub shells. Right after I been WOT, the shell is warm to the touch, but when I let it sit for a minute, the shell gets Hot! I'm thinking it would cool better if I cut the throttle back to 250 watts at 15mph while pedaling because of air flow. Last night I added 2oz of synthetic grease (lithium substitute) @ 1/2oz per hole to the Vboxx and went for a spin. Almost all of the noise in all gears has completely disappeared. 8th still has a very slight sound but thats all. Still ratchets normally in all gears except 1st when moving backwards. The I emailed Dlogic for advise about servicing and cable adjustment, but I am sold on QMS advise of adding some grease to the Vboxx. The tranny sounds happy now

Rix

 

[Rix]

Cruzxia,

I have been carrying around an adjustible wrench because my axel nuts were coming loose while riding. I tried torqueing clear to 45# (65nm) and they still came loose. Didn't know what I was feeling at first when I would hit the regen and the felt a little slop before engagement. I tried to find 14mm by 1.5 thread flange nuts like the ones you made. Impossible. So, I found thicker nuts and wave washers. So far after one ride, they are holding. Time will tell.

Rix

 

[Kepler]

Kepler
Bad luck with the BPM cooking.
When you get it going again, you may find that this helps with the motor temperature when riding off road, I found that limiting the power in the CA when riding off road, drastically drops the motor temperature.
On my bomber I ride a 3km loop at the local MTB area.

If the current is set at 65A the motor is quite hot at the end of the 3km loop
If the current is set to 40A I have to ride the 3km loop 3 times for the motor to get to the same temperature.

I don't ride the loop any slower at 40A as it is all slowish twisty riding.

What happens at 65A is that you cant keep the throttle steady, so it ends up with plenty of full current peaks that just heat up the motor without any gain.

I would try 22A on your BPM when next riding off road.



FYI the new CA v3 has the ability to monitor temperature, if you add a thermocouple to the motor. You can set it to wind back the power when the motor gets to warm. I just ordered one for my project bike, I will advise once tested.

Cruzxia

I think I will back it off a little, say to 1800W and see how that feels. That's around 25A. Also have a 3 speed switch on the bike which helps keep the motor cooler. With the 3 speed switch it can still hit the controller current limit but the current tends to drop off quite quickly due to the lower set speed.

The new CA looks good. I have one on order.

 

[cruzxia]

Rix

The nuts come loose from the regen, because the axle moves a tiny bit when changing from power to regen. If you look in my photos of the nuts, you will see that I also developed a torque arm, that completely prevents any axle rotation.

I have warned about this in several posts.
If you exceed 50 ft lb with the nylock nut the threads on the axle will begin leaning, and if you have used the nut a few times the axle thread will begin to strip. This is what happened on my bike. That is why I made the nuts and then developed the torque arm.

I did not mention the torque arm before, as I was waiting to see if anyone noticed the addition, guess everyone just looked at the nuts.

I have sent John the photos of the torque arm.

Firstly it is just a bolt on item. It clamps the axle using the allen bolt, just like the forks are clamped by the triple clamp. Where the chain adjuster slides, the torque arm locates.

Taking a cross section, the original motor torque is contained by a distance of 7mm (half the axle thickness) with the new torque arm the axle torque is contained by a distance of 35mm from the centre of the axle. The clamp area is 20mm wide and extends under the sprocket. The unit is made from aluminum, to be light and for its high friction when clamping. I can post photos of the torque arm if anyone is interested.

cruzxia

 

[Kepler]

I did notice the torque arm and was going to ask John if this was a new addition . Looks like a good idea. Please post some pictures 8)

Strange though, personally I have never had an issue with the nuts coming loose and I have run full re gen for about a year now plus double the power of a stock Bomber. Go figure. Perhaps with my Bomber being an older model, the stock torque arms were made with a tighter tolerance.

 

[cruzxia]

Thease are the photos taken while making the torque arm.

Bottom view
View attachment 3

End view (arc in tab is for the chain adjuster)


View of axle clamp area, (large surface area)


View fitted to axle, here you can see the increase in the flat area preventing axle rotation.
It locates in the swingarm behind the chain adjuster plate.
View attachment 1

Finished version, painted and installed.


TESTED
I tested it with the nuts at 30 ft lb by accelerating to 60kmh then applying the regen. I did this about 60 times. at the end of testing I rechecked the torque on the nuts, and they were still at 30 ft lb.
Re-torqued to 45 after testing.

On the brake side I was getting about 1mm of axle slide, caused when braking hard over bumps. I filed some vertical grooves in the chain adjuster plate, to give it some friction with the swing arm, it never moved again. (The powder coated surface was to slick on both swing arm and chain adjuster)

The great part is that I don’t have to even think about the rear axle when riding, I know it won’t come loose, and I don’t need to carry a spanner anymore.

Cruzxia

 

[QuietRush]

Nice work Cruxzia, the torque arm looks like a good piece of work. Good to see you taking the initiative to improve an already good product.

For anyone that's interested, I've put up a new page at http://store.quietrush.com.au/for-the-rider.html to start building up a small merchandising presence for riders interested in getting their mugs up on a, err, mug! Maybe even your very own shirt..I know that any of you can take the steps to set this up yourself, I just thought I'd offer the option for those who just can't be bothered doing it themselves.

I've been watching the images coming in from people getting used to riding their bikes as they take delivery, now the opportunity is yours to be the next featured rider and for us all to have the chance to drink from a vessel with your image captured for eternity/posterity/ego-boosting. What I'm looking for are images of riders taking the bikes into their intended off-road habitat and getting some nice action shots - preferably in line with the intent of the IMBA 'Rules of the Trail' - see http://www.imba.com/about/rules-trail if you're not familiar with them, learn them off by heart so we can protect and preserve our riding options.

If I spot an image that looks tickety-boo, then you can expect me to PM you for details. Images that don't quite make the cut will likely make it into an upcoming 'for the riders' image gallery as part of a wiki I'm standing up in spare moments.

So who's gonna be the first?

 

[Rix]

Cruzxia,

I noticed the torque arm, just didn't recognize what I was looking at. I know what you mean with the threads rolling. I had to clean mine up with a die before putting on the new axel nuts and wave washers. Why would Clyte use a 1.5 thread pitch on a 14mm shaft? 10 and 12mm shafts normally come with a 1.75 pitch thread. Just like you said, the pitch isn't any different than an 8mm shaft. Dont think I damage them much though. I am thinking of welding the axel and then grind them flat to fit the swingarm prongs with very tight tolerances. This will solve my problems with the regen slop. If I go this route, I will post the pics. All depends on how the high tension wave washers hold up.

To all, I picked up 4 24"x2.75" arrow prime bite tires on ebay for $88.00 USD. Here is a pic mounted of the tire mounted on the front. The height profile is about 2/3 inch less than the Duro 24x3 Razorbacks. Anyway these tires are cheap and I am in the process of reviewing them for traction, handeling, and durabiltiy.

Rix

 

[Alan B]

Well the little BPM is officially toast.

At least I found the limit of the motor. I rode the bike as hard as I could which meant it spent the majority of its time on this ride at over 2000W.

One thing I love about these motors are that its so easy to remove the motor assembly out of the hub. No need to re lace the wheel, just slot in a new motor assembly. $200 and about an hours work in total and the bike is up and running again. I think I will leave the current limit where it is for now and just be a little kinder to the motor in future. Might look at adding a temp sensor too.

I thought the little 6FET controller would be the first thing to pop under these conditions but I am finding its hardly getting warm even under off road conditions. Having the frame as a huge heat sink is no doubt helping. 8)

Not sure how the BPM compares to the BMC but Ilia of ebikessf who sells a lot of BMC indicates 1500W is about the max for good reliability on the BMC. If the BPM is smaller it might handle even less. The real problem is that at low speeds the efficiency drops and the power handling is even less, so it is easy to toast them under the right conditions.

Temperature sensor is a great idea.

To make much temperature difference will require more than a 10% reduction in power. With a temperature gauge you could figure it out before making toast.