E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

19" MC wheel weights:
all based on my bathroom scale:

The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs

The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs

Im going to run a regular tube and vee rubber tire and Ill get back to ya'll about the weights of those vs the heavy duty tube and Duro. I laced up the rim and the spoke angles look really good. I'll take a couple of pics.
 
1abv said:
19" MC wheel weights:
all based on my bathroom scale:

The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs

The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs

Im going to run a regular tube and vee rubber tire and Ill get back to ya'll about the weights of those vs the heavy duty tube and Duro. I laced up the rim and the spoke angles look really good. I'll take a couple of pics.

7 lbs of rotating mass equals 1 hp in acceleration.
 
Theodore Voltaire said:
1abv said:
19" MC wheel weights:
all based on my bathroom scale:

The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs

The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs

Im going to run a regular tube and vee rubber tire and Ill get back to ya'll about the weights of those vs the heavy duty tube and Duro. I laced up the rim and the spoke angles look really good. I'll take a couple of pics.

7 lbs of rotating mass equals 1 hp in acceleration.

Sorry this is incorrectly stated. 7 lbs of rotating mass out by the rim, would be roughly equivalent to adding 50 lb total weight to the whole bike, as far as acceleration is concerned. That would probably equal less than 1/2 hp.
 
Theodore Voltaire said:
Theodore Voltaire said:
1abv said:
19" MC wheel weights:
all based on my bathroom scale:

The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs

The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs

Im going to run a regular tube and vee rubber tire and Ill get back to ya'll about the weights of those vs the heavy duty tube and Duro. I laced up the rim and the spoke angles look really good. I'll take a couple of pics.

7 lbs of rotating mass equals 1 hp in acceleration.

Sorry this is incorrectly stated. 7 lbs of rotating mass out by the rim, would be roughly equivalent to adding 50 lb total weight to the whole bike, as far as acceleration is concerned. That would probably equal less than 1/2 hp.

This is true TV, but you got to factor in the diameter of the wheel from the 24MTB to the 19MC dependent on tire, can fluctuate up to 7/8 inch decrease OD on the 19. Based on my experience, I believe some of that loss that is occuring from the increased rotational mass is also being equaled out by the decrease in tire OD. I couldn't tell any difference in accelration with the 19MC wheel running the 2.75-19 SR241 over the 24x3.00 Duro razorback. The SR241 was also exactly 1/2 inch smaller OD. Now I did loose 2 MPH top speed, and when running wot on the Bomber, with the razorback on the 5403, after I quite acclerating and was topped out, I was using 3500-3600 Wh avering 52-53MPH no pedaling. With the SR241, I was averaging right around 49-51 and using 3800wh. So that what the increased rotational mass of the MC wheel with the stock 5403 motor equated to at WOT, about 200wh more and 2mph less.
 
Yeah, I'm just throwing that out there for consideration, and to get people thinking about it. Outside diameter is a big part of the equation, and also the tire weight is big.

After extracting every last hp from my Sportster engine I turned my attention in that area, and lot Harley people couldn't understand how my bike was so fast. I changed the rear wheel on my Sportster from the heavy stock 16 incher, to a light weight spun aluminum 18 incher. On top of that, 16" Harley tires have a 90-100 aspect ratio, but the 18s I was able to use come as small as 60 to 70 aspect ratio. It's fun to start playing around with that stuff especially when you're done everything else.

In the end the stock wheel with a 130-16 was about 1/4 inch bigger dia, and something like 8 lbs heavier than a Shinko 150 18/60 on my fancy 18 inch wheels. The wheel only accounted for 2 lbs of the difference. The rest was all tire. The difference was quite noticeable. Even an Avon 150 18/70 which was slightly bigger dia than stock, and 2 lb heavier than the Shinko, was still faster accelerating than stock.

All I'm trying to say is tire weight can make a big difference, so everyone should pay close attention to it.
 
Rix said:
This is true TV, but you got to factor in the diameter of the wheel from the 24MTB to the 19MC dependent on tire, can fluctuate up to 7/8 inch decrease OD on the 19. Based on my experience, I believe some of that loss that is occuring from the increased rotational mass is also being equaled out by the decrease in tire OD. I couldn't tell any difference in accelration with the 19MC wheel running the 2.75-19 SR241 over the 24x3.00 Duro razorback. The SR241 was also exactly 1/2 inch smaller OD. Now I did loose 2 MPH top speed, and when running wot on the Bomber, with the razorback on the 5403, after I quite acclerating and was topped out, I was using 3500-3600 Wh avering 52-53MPH no pedaling. With the SR241, I was averaging right around 49-51 and using 3800wh. So that what the increased rotational mass of the MC wheel with the stock 5403 motor equated to at WOT, about 200wh more and 2mph less.

Rix - I'm guessing you mean 200 watts not 200 watt hours ?

I just fitted my 17" x 2.5" SR241 to the rear. It replaced a really knobby tyre (much fewer more spaced out knobbs than SR241). The SR241 weighs 2.8kg - 500g heavier than the tyre it replaced. I thought the energy loos from the extra weight might be balanced out by the better rolling resistance, but no - I'd say the SR241 has increased my consumption by around 8%. That is significant. It's clear that rim, tube and tyre mass have a big impact on efficiency.

Does anyone know the weight of the stock Bomber 24" rim (without the motor)?
 
One thing I noticed about my bike is it seems somewhat able to make up for slight differences in tire dia. Those first low profile tires I was running last winter were a lot smaller dia than these big Thick Bricks I have now, but were only about 2 mph slower. The smaller tires definitely felt faster accelerating though. If that was the only consideration I'd still be running them, but they didn't fit our narrow rims very well, and my bike handled funky. I do think the motor got up to a little higher rpm with them though.
 
Sigmacom said:
Rix - I'm guessing you mean 200 watts not 200 watt hours ?

I just fitted my 17" x 2.5" SR241 to the rear. It replaced a really knobby tyre (much fewer more spaced out knobbs than SR241). The SR241 weighs 2.8kg - 500g heavier than the tyre it replaced. I thought the energy loos from the extra weight might be balanced out by the better rolling resistance, but no - I'd say the SR241 has increased my consumption by around 8%. That is significant. It's clear that rim, tube and tyre mass have a big impact on efficiency.

Does anyone know the weight of the stock Bomber 24" rim (without the motor)?

2.8kg is a lot of extra rotating weight in the worst possible location, but you also have to consider the difference in diameter, whatever that is, because it changes the gearing.

I usually only think in terms of acceleration, but with electric, power consumption is a big consideration too, since we covent range so much.

I didn't notice any difference in range when I changed from my low profile tires to my bigger tires, but I don't think there was a great difference in weight. I feel like rotating weight is the bigger killer.
 
Sigmacom said:
Does anyone know the weight of the stock Bomber 24" rim (without the motor)?

Features: • Use: Downhill / Freeride / MTN-Cross / All-Mountain / Disc • Width: 39mm • E.R.D: 476mm • Weight: 850g

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/se/en/sun-ringle-double-track-welded-disc-24-rim/rp-prod26253
 
Allex said:
Sigmacom said:
Does anyone know the weight of the stock Bomber 24" rim (without the motor)?

Features: • Use: Downhill / Freeride / MTN-Cross / All-Mountain / Disc • Width: 39mm • E.R.D: 476mm • Weight: 850g

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/se/en/sun-ringle-double-track-welded-disc-24-rim/rp-prod26253

That rim looks like a good replacement for a stock rim.
 
Sigmacom said:
Rix said:
This is true TV, but you got to factor in the diameter of the wheel from the 24MTB to the 19MC dependent on tire, can fluctuate up to 7/8 inch decrease OD on the 19. Based on my experience, I believe some of that loss that is occuring from the increased rotational mass is also being equaled out by the decrease in tire OD. I couldn't tell any difference in accelration with the 19MC wheel running the 2.75-19 SR241 over the 24x3.00 Duro razorback. The SR241 was also exactly 1/2 inch smaller OD. Now I did loose 2 MPH top speed, and when running wot on the Bomber, with the razorback on the 5403, after I quite acclerating and was topped out, I was using 3500-3600 Wh avering 52-53MPH no pedaling. With the SR241, I was averaging right around 49-51 and using 3800wh. So that what the increased rotational mass of the MC wheel with the stock 5403 motor equated to at WOT, about 200wh more and 2mph less.

Rix - I'm guessing you mean 200 watts not 200 watt hours ?

I just fitted my 17" x 2.5" SR241 to the rear. It replaced a really knobby tyre (much fewer more spaced out knobbs than SR241). The SR241 weighs 2.8kg - 500g heavier than the tyre it replaced. I thought the energy loos from the extra weight might be balanced out by the better rolling resistance, but no - I'd say the SR241 has increased my consumption by around 8%. That is significant. It's clear that rim, tube and tyre mass have a big impact on efficiency.

Does anyone know the weight of the stock Bomber 24" rim (without the motor)?

Thats correct, 200 watts difference. I guess if I had enough battery capacity, and could run WOT for a full hour, it would consuem 200hw more. Which on a 1.3kw battery is a bit more than 8% capacity. :mrgreen: I know I know, I am being a wise ass. :lol: Stock Bomber rim weighs just over 1 pound on my bathroom scales. The prowheel racing rim 19x1.4 weigh just under 3 pounds on the same scale, guessing 2.55-2.75 based on the needle. Hope that helps.

After extracting every last hp from my Sportster engine I turned my attention in that area, and lot Harley people couldn't understand how my bike was so fast. I changed the rear wheel on my Sportster from the heavy stock 16 incher, to a light weight spun aluminum 18 incher. On top of that, 16" Harley tires have a 90-100 aspect ratio, but the 18s I was able to use come as small as 60 to 70 aspect ratio. It's fun to start playing around with that stuff especially when you're done everything else.

The truth TV, no matter what, lighter weight wheels/tires equal more power to the ground. No other way of putting it. I am only implying that the smaller diameter of the heaiver tire offsets some of this loss with the increase mechanical advantage.
 
Personally I was surprised when I first learned how much difference just the weight of tires alone can make. It's very easy to underestimate how much effect that can be.

That's why I always say, there's not perfect bike. Everything is about compromise. The stock wheels are nice and light, but you can only run bicycle tires on them, and they're easy to get flats riding off road. Motorcycle tires are a much better choice for preventing flats, but in most cases they weight more. Everyone has to decide what's the best compromise for their kind of riding.
 
Rix said:
Yah, Allex, thats how it went down. I got parts in the mail about a month before, built up a rolling chassis. Hauled the bikes and met up with Jay late in Yosemite. Log cabin room, Jay built the rest and we went riding.

Jay, as you can see, your Neutron Kit was relocated onto a Disco Volante free ride frame by me and pops one Saturday morning. Its really awesome handler and running on a 12s 24ah pack, using six 8000mAH 6s zippy's. This thing has some serious range now.



 
19" MC wheel weights:
all based on my bathroom scale:

The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs

The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs

Some pics of the holmes hobby wheel:

The spoke angles are pretty damn good. It was easy to lace and true just follow what the rim wants you do do as far as spoke angle.

16018822486_8fbb051590_z.jpg


The spokes are 11/12 (they taper) 127mm doing it again I would go 125mm so I don't have to grind the spokes as seen in the pic below.
The spokes weight about the same as stock.

15858548869_dcd25d3aa3_z.jpg


As soon as I get the vee rubber VRM 021 in im going to check the weight of that with a light tube and see what the diff is between that and the stock tire w HD MC tube.
 
Theodore Voltaire said:
Allex said:
Sigmacom said:
Does anyone know the weight of the stock Bomber 24" rim (without the motor)?

Features: • Use: Downhill / Freeride / MTN-Cross / All-Mountain / Disc • Width: 39mm • E.R.D: 476mm • Weight: 850g

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/se/en/sun-ringle-double-track-welded-disc-24-rim/rp-prod26253

That rim looks like a good replacement for a stock rim.

Thats because it IS the stock rim, except added eyelets.
The Sunringle Doubletracks can be hard to find because they replaced it by Sunringle MTX39
Taken from Neighbour post
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61259&start=325#p984254
items.1401654430-5.b.jpg
 
1abv said:
19" MC wheel weights:
all based on my bathroom scale:

The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs

The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs

Some pics of the holmes hobby wheel:

The spoke angles are pretty damn good. It was easy to lace and true just follow what the rim wants you do do as far as spoke angle.

16018822486_8fbb051590_z.jpg


The spokes are 11/12 (they taper) 127mm doing it again I would go 125mm so I don't have to grind the spokes as seen in the pic below.
The spokes weight about the same as stock.

15858548869_dcd25d3aa3_z.jpg


As soon as I get the vee rubber VRM 021 in im going to check the weight of that with a light tube and see what the diff is between that and the stock tire w HD MC tube.

The reason I recommended 127mm long was its always better to be slightly long and need to dremmel a few then too short and sacricfise integrity of the wheel. BTW, how many spokes were too long like the one in the pic? Also, 11/12 or 2.6-2.9mm would need to be a hair shorter over a 3.6mm for lack of loss at the elbow bend. Talking a max of a mm difference and it looks like the spoke in the pic is a conservative 3mm too long. The other factor is, the ERD on the 19x1.6 Holmes Hobby could be different and less than the 19x1.4 Prowheel rim. Could you measure the ERD with your current spokes, and let me know what it is? I can remember now, but it seemd like I measured the Prowheel 19x1.4 with 18mm long nipples at either 477 or 479mm. Like I said, I cant remember though. I am guessing you have 16mm long nipples instead of 18mm like I use.
 
Rix said:
1abv said:
19" MC wheel weights:
all based on my bathroom scale:

The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs

The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs

Some pics of the holmes hobby wheel:

The spoke angles are pretty damn good. It was easy to lace and true just follow what the rim wants you do do as far as spoke angle.

The spokes are 11/12 (they taper) 127mm doing it again I would go 125mm so I don't have to grind the spokes as seen in the pic below.
The spokes weight about the same as stock.

As soon as I get the vee rubber VRM 021 in im going to check the weight of that with a light tube and see what the diff is between that and the stock tire w HD MC tube.

The reason I recommended 127mm long was its always better to be slightly long and need to dremmel a few then too short and sacricfise integrity of the wheel. BTW, how many spokes were too long like the one in the pic? Also, 11/12 or 2.6-2.9mm would need to be a hair shorter over a 3.6mm for lack of loss at the elbow bend. Talking a max of a mm difference and it looks like the spoke in the pic is a conservative 3mm too long. The other factor is, the ERD on the 19x1.6 Holmes Hobby could be different and less than the 19x1.4 Prowheel rim. Could you measure the ERD with your current spokes, and let me know what it is? I can remember now, but it seemd like I measured the Prowheel 19x1.4 with 18mm long nipples at either 477 or 479mm. Like I said, I cant remember though. I am guessing you have 16mm long nipples instead of 18mm like I use.

The wheel looks very good. I had resvations with 11/12g spokes however it looks strong enough and It also helps keep the weight down.


Keep in mind that the hub and rim is not always perfectly round and your spokes may not be cut exactly the same. As long as you did not run out of thread to tighten with and thread is not visable on the opposite side and its only few you need to touch up with a little grind, your spoke lengths are very good.
 
The reason I recommended 127mm long was its always better to be slightly long and need to dremmel a few then too short and sacricfise integrity of the wheel. BTW, how many spokes were too long like the one in the pic? Also, 11/12 or 2.6-2.9mm would need to be a hair shorter over a 3.6mm for lack of loss at the elbow bend. Talking a max of a mm difference and it looks like the spoke in the pic is a conservative 3mm too long. The other factor is, the ERD on the 19x1.6 Holmes Hobby could be different and less than the 19x1.4 Prowheel rim. Could you measure the ERD with your current spokes, and let me know what it is? I can remember now, but it seemd like I measured the Prowheel 19x1.4 with 18mm long nipples at either 477 or 479mm. Like I said, I cant remember though. I am guessing you have 16mm long nipples instead of 18mm like I use.


Dewd don't sweat it. No big deal you have never used this rim and neither have I. I gauged my wheel for lateral and radial truing. Came out pretty damn good.. Better than the bicycle rim...There are at 10 spokes that stick out to some extent. All of the other spoke are pretty damn close to the end of the nipples so there is a ton of thread in them.

125mm is what will do if for some reason I need to do another wheel.
 
1abv said:
The reason I recommended 127mm long was its always better to be slightly long and need to dremmel a few then too short and sacricfise integrity of the wheel. BTW, how many spokes were too long like the one in the pic? Also, 11/12 or 2.6-2.9mm would need to be a hair shorter over a 3.6mm for lack of loss at the elbow bend. Talking a max of a mm difference and it looks like the spoke in the pic is a conservative 3mm too long. The other factor is, the ERD on the 19x1.6 Holmes Hobby could be different and less than the 19x1.4 Prowheel rim. Could you measure the ERD with your current spokes, and let me know what it is? I can remember now, but it seemd like I measured the Prowheel 19x1.4 with 18mm long nipples at either 477 or 479mm. Like I said, I cant remember though. I am guessing you have 16mm long nipples instead of 18mm like I use.


Dewd don't sweat it. No big deal you have never used this rim and neither have I. I gauged my wheel for lateral and radial truing. Came out pretty damn good.. Better than the bicycle rim...There are at 10 spokes that stick out to some extent. All of the other spoke are pretty damn close to the end of the nipples so there is a ton of thread in them.

125mm is what will do if for some reason I need to do another wheel.

So 125mm if lacing a Holmes Hobby 19x1.6 to a 54xx. This is good to know. I get quite a bit of PMs from folks and want to give them the best info. Thanks for the info. I will pass it on as questions come in.
 
Rix said:
1abv said:
The reason I recommended 127mm long was its always better to be slightly long and need to dremmel a few then too short and sacricfise integrity of the wheel. BTW, how many spokes were too long like the one in the pic? Also, 11/12 or 2.6-2.9mm would need to be a hair shorter over a 3.6mm for lack of loss at the elbow bend. Talking a max of a mm difference and it looks like the spoke in the pic is a conservative 3mm too long. The other factor is, the ERD on the 19x1.6 Holmes Hobby could be different and less than the 19x1.4 Prowheel rim. Could you measure the ERD with your current spokes, and let me know what it is? I can remember now, but it seemd like I measured the Prowheel 19x1.4 with 18mm long nipples at either 477 or 479mm. Like I said, I cant remember though. I am guessing you have 16mm long nipples instead of 18mm like I use.


Dewd don't sweat it. No big deal you have never used this rim and neither have I. I gauged my wheel for lateral and radial truing. Came out pretty damn good.. Better than the bicycle rim...There are at 10 spokes that stick out to some extent. All of the other spoke are pretty damn close to the end of the nipples so there is a ton of thread in them.

125mm is what will do if for some reason I need to do another wheel.


So 125mm if lacing a Holmes Hobby 19x1.6 to a 54xx. This is good to know. I get quite a bit of PMs from folks and want to give them the best info. Thanks for the info. I will pass it on as questions come in.


Yup. Just went back out and checked. Every spoke is proud of where the screwdriver would bottom out on the nipple.Most are flush with the top of the head of the nipple...
 
Addendum:
19" MC wheel weights:
all based on my bathroom scale:

The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs

The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs

The stock Duro, MC HD tube, and MR. tuffy strip: 6.6 lbs

Vee Rubber in transit to me.
 
1abv said:
Addendum:
19" MC wheel weights:
all based on my bathroom scale:

The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs

The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs

The stock Duro, MC HD tube, and MR. tuffy strip: 6.6 lbs

Vee Rubber in transit to me.

Right before you install the wheel on the bike, be sure and let us know what the entire assembly weighs including everything.
 
actionobject said:
hi guys,

Does anyone know the dimensions of the battery in the Fighter?

You can ask that here, and maybe someone fro Stealth will give you an answer.

http://www.stealthelectricbikes.com/forums/forum/f-37-fighter/f-37-battery/

Of course I would tell you if I easily could. But I'm not near my bike this week, and I dont take the battery out very often.
 
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