harrisonpatm said:
I'm wondering, if the situation involved a gas bike, would it be accompanied by hundreds of YouTube and reddit comments arguing with each other? Would the public be throwing blame at the buyer and seller and arguing about who was at fault, and what the buyer screwed up, and what the builder did fatally wrong?
Yes certainly. Happens all the time.
I am an " engine mechanic. "
We build hand built engines. The one we work on now is about 500K-800K$, final cost.
Trust me, it will work, for the buyer who has contracted our work... and we have business insurance to make sure the product of our labor is covered. Our insurance covers it. IF TOB had business liability insurance, they just might pay out. TOB certainly presented themselves as a business, with a product. When the sale was made. The product is the work, TOB does, on custom bikes.
One thing you really hate, as a mechanic.. is the dreaded " come back" where the customer comes back and you have to fix their problem cause they already paid and there is still a problem... I have a " come back" coming in this weekend, a water pump I replaced a year ago, and now the coolant temp sensor is bad ...or thermostat is stuck and they are comming in this weekend for me to check it out.. I will " check it out" for free,, but I will get paid to do the work because the car lasted well over a year since I last worked on it. An Xterra. They scheduled the appointment with a " you did my water pump last year? I think? " and if it is a bad water pump, again, its not my liability.. that Nissan was fine for a year.... IF she tries to say I did something wrong, or get free work now, i will have to lose a customer. See ya! Phone book is filled with other mechanics, maybe one of them can help her. Nothing I can do for someone who wants free work a year later. My insurance will not cover her problem. IF the problem had happend the day she took it a year ago... yes my insurance would look into covering her damages. However, here we are, a year later.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=business+liability+insurance
BUSINESS LIABILITY COVERAGE IS CHEAP AS SHIT!!!
I am insured for well over a million. I could straight up do a million dolla worth of damages to someone... and they would get the million dollars cause i paid my insurance premium. It is why it exists. So problems ( TOB bike burning) like this are.. settled. Lawyer Vampires live for this. Teh are retained by the company to fight whateveer might cost the company a dime. To settle, or to win, the damages . It is why they exsist.
Product liability insurance is different, and not as easy to get, I think . I dont know much there. I do know, I am liable, for the work I perform, on a customers item, and my business insurance covers this. IF I am contracted, for labor on an item, and I destroy that item, the " owner" of the work contract ( person paying me) will get the item replaced in full. My work is insured.
I do not know how a product insurance is acquired, or what it entails.
I am a member of a group on FB called " SINCE YOU REMAPPED MY CAR".... and it is an exact example of people trying to flame others online over poor work, and the tuner garage's response to it all. Hell yeah they go online and try try try! "IMMA GONNA SUE!"
"Oh you blew up my car!!"
" I can prove it!!!"
"Imma gonna git lawyers involved!!!"
IF it can be proven that the " tuner" blew up the car, put a piston in backwards, forgot to put a new seal on the oil pump pickup.... Started the car and gave it to the customer with zero oil in it.. something like that.... yes the business insurance can and will pay for the ( customers) damages the business caused.
Howeve, most take the car, drive it away, and come back months later when they blew up their car themselves and try to blame the engine builder or tuner. Nope. Not months later. Wont get a dime. Your fault you blew up YOUR engine.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/476249046596769
( ^^^ that group is funny a s***)
Would the public be throwing blame at the buyer and seller and arguing about who was at fault, and what the buyer screwed up, and what the builder did fatally wrong? HELL YEAH THEY DO IT ALL DAY!!!!
.....just cause you point your eyes toward electronic vehicles,.... does not mean.... What you are NOT looking today at does NOT exist. Just cause you cant see it, are not looking at it, does not mean it doesnt happen.
So people yell at these ICE tuners for " messing up the map inmy car" and they all take it online. Fight fight fight. I could show you ten examples of people trying to flame the DIY racecar ECU seller... Or the Tuner garage, for a bad product... but there are a few hundred thousand out there operation fine.... and racing cars... with fire breathing record setting race cars....
"Oh Megasquirt PnP blew up my 700hp Coyote!"
-----That was one hell of a lawsuit.
The makers of the MSNPNP won that one.
MsPnP has a hundred world records. Hundreds of thousands of working, on the road today... record setting, diy ECUs int he cars on the tracks. One Coyote blown up is nothing special to the engine tuning computer.
Now... if there was only 1 MSPNP in the world, the Coyote lawsuit might have been found differently. The product might have been found defective and damages awarded,, but the item was sold with zero warranty, expressed or implied, in writing. So the makers of the MsPnP were not liable. A court might find for damages, ... if this was teh one and only MsPnP in the world.. sold with a promise and warranty that it would work.
If it was worth enough for a suit. Hell a MS2 or MS3 kit cost like 300-400$. Lol. Built cheap and disposable. DIY kit. No liability.
If I ever have a product to sell, I am calling it a " diy kit" and absolving myself of responsibility. Easy as pie. I am not selling " a working durable good". I am not " liable for the purchased performance of the item".
Lets say the MsPnP blew up EVERY Coyote that the put on the ECu... then the Coyote owners could get together and win a class action lawsuit. IF the cost of the damages and or system was expensive enough to warrant a lawyer.
It is the concept of a " bonded contract"...
A contract bond is a guarantee the terms of a contract are fulfilled. If the contracted party fails to fulfill its duties according to the agreed upon terms, the contract “owner” can claim against the bond to recover financial losses or a stated default provision.
All contract bonds guarantee the performance and or payment of the obligations under contract.
Not a single thing is really built in the United states without a bonded contract. A city, municipality, private company, would be incredibly stupid to offer a contract without the requirement of a bond.
Its contract law. Well developed since well before the year 1000AD. Lol.
There are 10,000 or more DIY turnkey ebikes built by amateurs that worked fine and was no problem. Sold to other enthusiasts. Without problem.
Its when you try to get rich ( selling bikes for 6K$) and the you fug up... that you are to be held liable. Buyer did not get what he expected, and that was a working bike.
Seller should have just had buyer provide their own battery, and absolve himself of that liability.
