Ebike shaking and rear hub motor making weird sounds.

[Jakolanternn]

Issue started today mid ride, I am a 5’11 180lb male. whenever i apply throttle the bike shudders and the motor appears to be making clicking sounds. If I turn the bike on it’s handlebars and seat it will run just fine. It is a 750w I believe on an ecotric bike. Any help would be appreciated as this is the bike I use to commute to and from work!

 

[markz]

Issue started today mid ride, I am a 5’11 180lb male. whenever i apply throttle the bike shudders and the motor appears to be making clicking sounds. If I turn the bike on it’s handlebars and seat it will run just fine. It is a 750w I believe on an ecotric bike. Any help would be appreciated as this is the bike I use to commute to and from work!

Clicking sound good be a loose hall sensor, broken spoke, something hitting the wheel while it turns like a rear derailleur. Could be something inside the motor. So you really need to pinpoint where the clicking sound is coming from.

Shuddering could be a loose connector, burnt windings, untrue wheel, mangled gears, misaligned hall sensors.

Unloaded (bike upside down) it runs fine you say, but sit on it it shudders, interesting. Perfect time to listen to where the clicking sound is coming from, notice if the wheel is lined up to the frame properly, r.d. or chain or wheel is all fine.

What motor do you have, direct drive, geared?
Whats the brand of the motor, or make?
How big is the motor diameter wise, can give an indication of 1st question.

 

[amberwolf]

Most likely one hall sensor wire is not connected. Wire could be broken at the axle exit from the motor, or a pin backed out of the connector while it's plugged in (but may look fine when unplugged).

Could also be a phase wire, same issues.


FWIW, often these particular types of issues are caused by physical damage, like crashing the scooter or falling on it's side, or if taking the wheel off to change a tire or fix a flat. So if there was any event in the past like this it may have contributed to the present problem.

 

[Jakolanternn]

Hey boss, I can’t really answer any of the motor questions besides that it is geared, as there aren’t any markings on it anywhere, besides shimano on the gears and ecotric as the bike brand lol. But what could it mean if the shuddering and noises only happen when the bike is powered on and using the motor. On assistance level 0 it is all good. Keep in mind this is also the case if motor is on and bike upside down. I also opened up what I believe to be the actual battery of the bike? (Separate from the actual battery I attach/detach to ride with) inside there was one wire not connected to anything. I left the cover off and just let it hang for 10-15 feet while I tested it and it worked perfectly there as well. But the shuddering and sounds all appear to be coming from there

 

[Jakolanternn]

Rescrewed that cover back on and the sounds and shuddering were instantly back that’s why I assume it’s from there.

 

[Jakolanternn]

I just found this forum so sorry for not quoting anything. Just realized you can do that. Does anyone know how much $$$ it would run to just take it to a shop to be fixed?

 

[Jakolanternn]

Most likely one hall sensor wire is not connected. Wire could be broken at the axle exit from the motor, or a pin backed out of the connector while it's plugged in (but may look fine when unplugged).

Could also be a phase wire, same issues.


FWIW, often these particular types of issues are caused by physical damage, like crashing the scooter or falling on it's side, or if taking the wheel off to change a tire or fix a flat. So if there was any event in the past like this it may have contributed to the present problem.

I’ve crashed on it once before when I first got the bike (first 15-20 miles) and it is now at 377 miles could that still be the cause?

 

[amberwolf]

If a wire to the motor was damaged, then yes.

Or the connector could just now be working itself loose at one of the pins, and be unrelated to the crash.

Or a solder joint to teh hall sensor inside the motor could've failed from poor soldering in manufacture.

Or a hall sensor could have actually failed, but that's not that common.

Lots of possible causes, but the problem you describe best fits a hall sensor or phase wire that is loose or disconnected.

 

[John in CR]

I doubt it's a hall sensor issue, because the problem would occur whether or not there's a load unless the controller switches to sensorless mode in the absence of one of the halls. Sensorless mode commonly has shuddering issues when starting from a stop with a load. You can test that theory by getting it rolling pretty good before applying the throttle. Like others mentioned a poor connection or partially broken wire could cause it.

Something loose in the motor or gear or clutch going bad might cause it too. Were you able to open it up far enough to see the gears and clutch to inspect them?

 

[Jakolanternn]

I doubt it's a hall sensor issue, because the problem would occur whether or not there's a load unless the controller switches to sensorless mode in the absence of one of the halls. Sensorless mode commonly has shuddering issues when starting from a stop with a load. You can test that theory by getting it rolling pretty good before applying the throttle. Like others mentioned a poor connection or partially broken wire could cause it.

Something loose in the motor or gear or clutch going bad might cause it too. Were you able to open it up far enough to see the gears and clutch to inspect them?

Hey john I wasn’t able to this morning as I had to head out for work, when I open it up what exactly will I be looking for to tell if they’re messed up? Thank you for your response!

 

[amberwolf]

I doubt it's a hall sensor issue, because the problem would occur whether or not there's a load unless the controller switches to sensorless mode in the absence of one of the halls.

Not necessarily. I've had a number of hall wiring problems over the years with hubmotors (bad connectors, damaged axle exit wires) that caused exactly these symptoms when under load, but offground would spin without the jerks/etc. Some controllers (none sensorless) would work better than others doing this, and some would not always start it spinning offground depending on wheel position, and some would do fine at that. (the grinfineon from last year has been the best at that, as it is documented to have a specific mode just for a missing hall signal).

Phase wires, same thing, whenever there's been a poor connection like a loose contact.



If it *is* a clutch or gear problem, you'll probably be able to feel it by hand if you flip the bike upside down, and manually rotate the wheel backwards. (forwards on a geared hub doesn't spin the motor and some of the other parts inside, but backwards does).

 

[markz]

Hey boss, I can’t really answer any of the motor questions besides that it is geared, as there aren’t any markings on it anywhere, besides shimano on the gears and ecotric as the bike brand lol. But what could it mean if the shuddering and noises only happen when the bike is powered on and using the motor. On assistance level 0 it is all good. Keep in mind this is also the case if motor is on and bike upside down. I also opened up what I believe to be the actual battery of the bike? (Separate from the actual battery I attach/detach to ride with) inside there was one wire not connected to anything. I left the cover off and just let it hang for 10-15 feet while I tested it and it worked perfectly there as well. But the shuddering and sounds all appear to be coming from there

Hey I like you already, calling me boss!
Gears, I meant a geared motor internal gears. If some teeth are broken on the gears could shutter, but would with load more so then no load. Noises only while motor is on, could be anything: a loose hall sensor, burnt windings, lamination seperation, loose magnet. Could be many things.
Everythings thats been mentioned, sensorless controller does it to.

You need to systematically go through everything from one end to the other. Start with the throttle, look at the wiring from the throttle to the controller, are the wires not cut or damaged. Does the throttle twist smoothly. Next, are all the wires on the controller in good shape. Wires properly routed, not hitting a tire. Next, flip the bike upside down, move the wheel with your hand only, listen. Look at the axle, look inside the axle are the wires not damaged. Twist the throttle a bit, listen. Do everything again, go over each wire. Smarten up the wire routing with zip ties if you need to. Spin the wheel with your hand, listen, how does it feel? Spin it fast, spin it slow...all by hand, no power. Get a friend to twist the throttle, listen carefully. Next, you will have to open up the motor so get an allen key, take both covers off then get back to us.

Edit - I would start off by grabbing a spare throttle and hooking that up. You should have a spare throttle anyways, get two spares from here, and a sensorless controller to match your battery voltage and the amp discharge you want, yes you should have a spare controller too
https://evfittinggreentime.aliexpress.com/store/313864

First, open up your motor!

 

[momus3]

It may indeed be a motor issue as others have said. But before you open it up, ck the bike out thoroughly all over. Look for loose spokes, loose bolts (especially on the axles and brake calipers), missing bolts or nuts, tire pressure, cracks on structural parts, all the things that probably wouldn't cause the problem that you describe, but might, especially if it's a combination of them. Also, try and think back to exactly when the bike started doing this, and what happened right before that, if anything.

"I also opened up what I believe to be the actual battery of the bike? (Separate from the actual battery I attach/detach to ride with) inside there was one wire not connected to anything. I left the cover off and just let it hang for 10-15 feet while I tested it and it worked perfectly there as well. But the shuddering and sounds all appear to be coming from there"

This part in your description has me baffled. It sounds like you opened up the cover for the controller? And the clicking noises come from there? If you could post some pictures, it wouldn't hurt.

 

[Jakolanternn]

Hey boss, I can’t really answer any of the motor questions besides that it is geared, as there aren’t any markings on it anywhere, besides shimano on the gears and ecotric as the bike brand lol. But what could it mean if the shuddering and noises only happen when the bike is powered on and using the motor. On assistance level 0 it is all good. Keep in mind this is also the case if motor is on and bike upside down. I also opened up what I believe to be the actual battery of the bike? (Separate from the actual battery I attach/detach to ride with) inside there was one wire not connected to anything. I left the cover off and just let it hang for 10-15 feet while I tested it and it worked perfectly there as well. But the shuddering and sounds all appear to be coming from there

Hey I like you already, calling me boss!
Gears, I meant a geared motor internal gears. If some teeth are broken on the gears could shutter, but would with load more so then no load. Noises only while motor is on, could be anything: a loose hall sensor, burnt windings, lamination seperation, loose magnet. Could be many things.
Everythings thats been mentioned, sensorless controller does it to.

You need to systematically go through everything from one end to the other. Start with the throttle, look at the wiring from the throttle to the controller, are the wires not cut or damaged. Does the throttle twist smoothly. Next, are all the wires on the controller in good shape. Wires properly routed, not hitting a tire. Next, flip the bike upside down, move the wheel with your hand only, listen. Look at the axle, look inside the axle are the wires not damaged. Twist the throttle a bit, listen. Do everything again, go over each wire. Smarten up the wire routing with zip ties if you need to. Spin the wheel with your hand, listen, how does it feel? Spin it fast, spin it slow...all by hand, no power. Get a friend to twist the throttle, listen carefully. Next, you will have to open up the motor so get an allen key, take both covers off then get back to us.

Edit - I would start off by grabbing a spare throttle and hooking that up. You should have a spare throttle anyways, get two spares from here, and a sensorless controller to match your battery voltage and the amp discharge you want, yes you should have a spare controller too
https://evfittinggreentime.aliexpress.com/store/313864

First, open up your motor!

Hello mark! I believe I found what is the issue, the rear derailleur has a cord going into it that appears to have frayed and has parts of the wire? Sticking out at the end now right where it goes in. Where would I find a fix for this? Thanks for all of your help by the way it is greatly appreciated

 

[Jakolanternn]

It may indeed be a motor issue as others have said. But before you open it up, ck the bike out thoroughly all over. Look for loose spokes, loose bolts (especially on the axles and brake calipers), missing bolts or nuts, tire pressure, cracks on structural parts, all the things that probably wouldn't cause the problem that you describe, but might, especially if it's a combination of them. Also, try and think back to exactly when the bike started doing this, and what happened right before that, if anything.

"I also opened up what I believe to be the actual battery of the bike? (Separate from the actual battery I attach/detach to ride with) inside there was one wire not connected to anything. I left the cover off and just let it hang for 10-15 feet while I tested it and it worked perfectly there as well. But the shuddering and sounds all appear to be coming from there"

This part in your description has me baffled. It sounds like you opened up the cover for the controller? And the clicking noises come from there? If you could post some pictures, it wouldn't hurt.

I had tried posting pictures before but it said they were all too big of a file size

 

[AngryBob]

This cover you removed, with the disconnected wire, on the actual battery but not the actual battery, when you did this thing that MADE THE PROBLEM GO AWAY, then you un-did whatever you did, and when you un-did it, THE PROBLEM RETURNED, How about you go into that in some detail?

Also, download paint.net, load your picture, follow the instructions required to post a picture, and re-size the image as necessary, this is very important, because from your description, I HAVE NO frocking CLUE WHAT THE HELL YOU ARE TRYING TO DESCRIBE.

Also, repeat that test while traveling more that 10-15 feet as it is highly likely this is a false positive and a total waste of time.

But, anytime you have a procedure which makes the problem go away, or at least appears to, that is absolutely worth looking into.

This "cord" sticking out, does it go directly into the axle, I mean the actual axle, you know, different from the other actual axle. Also, when you crashed, did it fall on the side the "cord" is on?

 

[markz]

the rear derailleur has a cord going into it that appears to have frayed and has parts of the wire? Sticking out at the end now right where it goes in.

Is it a gear cable?

Pictures speak a million words

I use this to resize pictures
https://www.irfanview.com/

Or try one of the many online picture resizers
This is one I found on a web search
https://resizeimage.net/

 

[Balmorhea]

Hello mark! I believe I found what is the issue, the rear derailleur has a cord going into it that appears to have frayed and has parts of the wire? Sticking out at the end now right where it goes in. Where would I find a fix for this? Thanks for all of your help by the way it is greatly appreciated

I would tell you to replace your shifter cable and adjust the derailleur, but I don't think you're there yet.

You should take your bike to a mechanic to have it checked over. Once the simple mechanical issues are out of the way, it will be easier to identify problems with the electric assist, if there are any.

I think it's best to be familiar with the normal operation and maintenance of a pedal bicycle before you use an electric assist version.

 

[AngryBob]

Which is a nice way of saying "If you don't know shit from Shinola, you should not be trying to polish your own shoes".

I think he crashed on the wire side of the hub, the cord he is talking about is the input wires thru the axle of the hub motor, and these are the problem. I think the "test" he did for 10-15 feet was with no power on. Wild guess that the cover he removed was for the controller, and the intermitantly shorting wires on the axle cause something inside the controller to make clicking noises.

I also think this case will remain one of the great mysteries in life. No one here now or in the future will benefit in any way from the thought and effort put in by many to try and help this poor soul with a problem he likely caused himself.

 

[Jakolanternn]

Which is a nice way of saying "If you don't know shit from Shinola, you should not be trying to polish your own shoes".

I think he crashed on the wire side of the hub, the cord he is talking about is the input wires thru the axle of the hub motor, and these are the problem. I think the "test" he did for 10-15 feet was with no power on. Wild guess that the cover he removed was for the controller, and the intermitantly shorting wires on the axle cause something inside the controller to make clicking noises.

I also think this case will remain one of the great mysteries in life. No one here now or in the future will benefit in any way from the thought and effort put in by many to try and help this poor soul with a problem he likely caused himself.

Alright since you want to be a dick, I know how a normal bicycle works and how to fix most problems with one. I just don’t know all the terminology. I don’t think it’s too far out of the norm for me to wonder/ not know how to instantly fix an electric version as it is my first ebike. The test was with power (don’t assume some dumb shit because you think you know everything)
Also I don’t doubt it was a problem caused by me as I’m the one riding the bike, lol you make 0 sense. It went nearly 400miles without an issue so I’m obviously not treating it like dirt. Now please and kindly frock off to another thread <3

 

[Jakolanternn]

the rear derailleur has a cord going into it that appears to have frayed and has parts of the wire? Sticking out at the end now right where it goes in.

Is it a gear cable?

Pictures speak a million words

I use this to resize pictures
https://www.irfanview.com/

Or try one of the many online picture resizers
This is one I found on a web search
https://resizeimage.net/

Hello mark! Here you go. Sorry I’ve been a little reluctant to really get into anything as I’m waiting on my buddy who owns tons of escooters/ebikes to come over and help me out!

 

[Jakolanternn]

the rear derailleur has a cord going into it that appears to have frayed and has parts of the wire? Sticking out at the end now right where it goes in.

Is it a gear cable?

Pictures speak a million words

I use this to resize pictures
https://www.irfanview.com/

Or try one of the many online picture resizers
This is one I found on a web search
https://resizeimage.net/

Hello mark! Here you go. Sorry I’ve been a little reluctant to really get into anything as I’m waiting on my buddy who owns tons of escooters/ebikes to come over and help me out!

Also bad pic because my phone camera is pretty old is I had to get really close for a good quality

 

[Jakolanternn]

 

[goatman]

which model do you have? heres the site

https://www.ecotric.com/

see the the + in middle of picture? look there for damage

 

[Jakolanternn]

which model do you have? heres the site

https://www.ecotric.com/

see the the + in middle of picture? look there for damage

Hello! I have the 26’ fat tire beach/snow model. And I just looked where you said that cord and area looks all good