Ebike suggestions

[h.letchworth]

Some background, I am in the military and have a 12 mile commute down the interstate. The main issue I am trying to over come is traffic, currently I have to be at work at 6am, which requires me leaving my house no later then 5:10 to beat the traffic at the gate. My preferred time to leave is 5AM, it give me a 18 minute drive in light traffic until I am 1-2 miles from base, then everything slows down due to ID checks which adds another 10 minutes on a good day. If I leave any later then 5:15 then it is heavy traffic though out the whole trip and gate traffic nearly triples, I have only done this once and it landed me at work at exactly 6 which is still a big no no. Using the google maps bicycle mode it sends me down side roads equaling 12.5 miles, also note it says mostly flat roads. With their calculations it would take me 1h 7m to get to work, that is averaging 11mph. I'd love to cut that in half for a 30 minute commute, it would allow me to leave the house later by avoiding traffic and being able to travel into base as a pedestrian and not waiting 30 minutes in line to have my ID checked. I like the idea of an ebike over a moped so I can still have some exercise and later this year my ship will move into the shipyards where, unless I can find an appropriate route I would have to drive my car, I have heard parking is insane and over a 1 mile walk isn't uncommon.

Skip to what I need.

minimum 12.5 mile distance, but a safe net would be 20 mile distance.
ability to maintain 25 mph speeds, a max speed would be great around 35 for emergencies but not required.

If I had a removable battery i would be able to charge inside of work. I do plan on peddling, but do not want to have to depend on it for my commute. I'd love to spend less then 1k, but the $500 range is where I want to be. I have no problem assembling, wiring, or dealing with the electronics. I will ride a pre built bike, or build my own from frame up, I assume building is the best route.


Any help is greatly appreciated, even if it is just links on information I couldn't find.

EDIT: My weight is 160lbs, my cargo would consist of a backpack with rain gear and my lunch.

 

[wesnewell]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-Electric-Bicycle-LCD-Display-26-Front-Rear-Wheel-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Hub-/291107275178
For 20miles at 25mph, you'll need 15ah of 12s lipo or equivalent. Top speed on 12s lipo will be ~28mph. Max of 15s lipo top speed would be ~35mph

 

[TotalConfusion]

Take a look at this site, http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=138 he has a great name on this site and if you look at his kits in maybe a Mac 8T with a 14s (50v) battery you will get very close to your speed and distance but with delivery you will be close to your 1k mark but great quality.

The Mac 8T geared hub motor on 36 volts hits around 24mph and with 50Volts you should see close to 30mph if not a little faster. His 14.35Ah battery should get you enough distance to have a little in reserve also and they are around the $500 mark just for the battery.

You will find the more you research and read on this site the better off you will be when buying your kit.

 

[TheBeastie]

I'd love to spend less then 1k, but the $500 range is where I want to be. I have no problem assembling, wiring, or dealing with the electronics. I will ride a pre built bike, or build my own from frame up, I assume building is the best route.


Any help is greatly appreciated, even if it is just links on information I couldn't find.

EDIT: My weight is 160lbs, my cargo would consist of a backpack with rain gear and my lunch.

If your going for a geared motor build (MAC motor) then I would recommend a 700c/29er style bike.

I don't know what kind of bike your considering but sounds like you need reliability to ensure you get there on time.
If your not going to just get a basic BSO type bike from Kmart etc then I suggest looking at the Trek DS series.
I would recommend you consider the DS 8.3.
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/town/dual_sport/ds_series/8_3_ds/#

I chosen this bike over a standard mountain bike for the reasons below..
Good thing about this bike is that is has a frame built to take large fat tires (hence being called "Dual Sport") even though its stock tires are pretty then. They don't show it off in any pics on the site but if you look at other bike frames theres no space to put wider style tires unless its a outright mountain bike and even then you should double check.
Also this bike is also built for speed as it has a large 48T crank, most mountain bike cranks are considerably smaller so you can't pedal assist as your going way to fast via the motor.

Also the Trek DS frame has a large triangle frame space, most mountain bikes have annoyingly small space in the triangle space so can't mount your battery in there. If your going to have to carry a backpack/lunch etc then it would be nice to leave your cargo for the back racks of the bike and place your battery in the middle of the frame.
Those are my core reasons why I selected this bike for my next ebike.

 

[dogman dan]

Just about any kit, and 48v 15 ah battery would do this job. 48v to have closer to 30 mph speed, so you have a solid 25 mph at all charge levels of the battery.

Some good options already pointed out, but staying under $500 including the battery and all the bits to charge it is not very likely.

Bear in mind, spending closer to $1200-1500 and having a very reliable no fuss battery can be quite worth it when your job is hanging by the thread of you make it there on time.

 

[wesnewell]

You can get a reliable setup for no more than ~$600 if you spend your money wisely. That would be a 48V 1000W DD kit with a 15ah battery pack capable of 20 miles at 25mph. Lower that to 20mph and you could knock ~$100 off that. Assumes you already have a 26" bike with steel dropouts.

 

[mlt34]

I also commuted to my base on ebike (finished my service a month ago) and I have to tell you it is amazing. Skipping traffic, jumping to the front of the line past cars for ID checks, not having to worry about popping the trunk, checking the undercarriage, etc. Plus as an officer I had even more wiggle room to slide through. "yea just let the officer on the 'bicycle' through, but make sure you scan those trucks behind him good!" etc etc. Plus it's great for getting around the base, depending where you're stationed. I was in a big base and it was awesome.

You are in for a life changing experience, my friend

 

[h.letchworth]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-Electric-Bicycle-LCD-Display-26-Front-Rear-Wheel-Motor-Kit-E-Bike-Hub-/291107275178
For 20miles at 25mph, you'll need 15ah of 12s lipo or equivalent. Top speed on 12s lipo will be ~28mph. Max of 15s lipo top speed would be ~35mph

Very nice suggestion, fits everything I need. Now to just find proper batteries. Would a 12s lipo go as far as 15s, just slower?

Take a look at this site, http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=138

That seems like a very good option with nice variety, could be a one stop shop when I am ready to buy.

I don't know what kind of bike your considering but sounds like you need reliability to ensure you get there on time.
If your not going to just get a basic BSO type bike from Kmart etc then I suggest looking at the Trek DS series.
I would recommend you consider the DS 8.3.
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/town/dual_sport/ds_series/8_3_ds/#

Love that bike and your ideas of reliability and storage space. Will keep it in mind for frame size and tire shape, my plan now is to buy a bike local since I can test ride and make sure it is the right one.

Just about any kit, and 48v 15 ah battery would do this job. 48v to have closer to 30 mph speed, so you have a solid 25 mph at all charge levels of the battery.

Some good options already pointed out, but staying under $500 including the battery and all the bits to charge it is not very likely.

Bear in mind, spending closer to $1200-1500 and having a very reliable no fuss battery can be quite worth it when your job is hanging by the thread of you make it there on time.

I could do $1200-1500 if it fit the top end of my requirements. Right on about my job, best believe If the bike failed for any reason I'd be peddling as hard as I could to make it on time.

I also commuted to my base on ebike (finished my service a month ago) and I have to tell you it is amazing.

You are in for a life changing experience, my friend

Check your PM's in just a few.



Thanks guys for all the help, loving the vibe of this community.

 

[wesnewell]

Very nice suggestion, fits everything I need. Now to just find proper batteries. Would a 12s lipo go as far as 15s, just slower?

If you rode wot, the distance would be about the same. Maybe even less on the 15s pack because the wind resistance would be greater. But at a given speed, there's more distance in a 15s pack simply because it would have more wh at the same ah. A 12s 10ah pack is 444wh. A 15s 10ah pack is 555wh. Nominal voltage times AH=WH (watt hours). 12s nominal voltage is 44.4V. 15s is 55.5V. Rc lipo from hobbyking .com is usually the best place to get rc lipo.

 

[mlt34]

Are you set on RC Lipo for the price? Are you familiar with how to use/charge them safely? When used properly, RC LiPos are great batteries, but they shouldn't be taken lightly. One accidental button press on the charger and you can have a house reduced to ashes. It's happened. I don't mean to be dramatic, but unless you have previous experience with RC LiPo batteries, you should either consider LiCoMn/LiFePO4 or do some really good reading up on LiPos to ensure you know exactly how to use them.

Think of it like your weapon: an effective tool in the right hands, but you'd never give it to someone without the proper training.

 

[Drunkskunk]

EM3ev.com would be the place to go for the motor and battery. The 50V15Ah battery will get you there with enough power in reserve to handle just about anything (wind, storms, detours to avoid ex-hookup's angry husbands ) Many days, that may even get you back home. sometimes not, but always enough to make it to work.

Get a 2nd charger to keep at work.

Don't try saving cash on the battery, it's counter intuitive, but it's probably the single most critical part to get right on an e bike.

Trek 8.3 has an 8 speed rear. The most you can fit on the MAC is a 7 speed. Making that work is complicated, you either need to replace the shifter, or do something half assed to make it work.
Try the Trek 8.2 with it's 7 speed rear. Other option is a Trek 800 series, with it's steel frame.
But grab one used from Craig's list. Near a military base, good bikes go cheap when people suddenly have to ship out.

 

[h.letchworth]

Are you set on RC Lipo for the price? Are you familiar with how to use/charge them safely? When used properly, RC LiPos are great batteries, but they shouldn't be taken lightly. One accidental button press on the charger and you can have a house reduced to ashes. It's happened. I don't mean to be dramatic, but unless you have previous experience with RC LiPo batteries, you should either consider LiCoMn/LiFePO4 or do some really good reading up on LiPos to ensure you know exactly how to use them.

Think of it like your weapon: an effective tool in the right hands, but you'd never give it to someone without the proper training.

I'm not set on anything honestly. I do want best power per dollar, if that means delaying my purchase to read more I am comfortable with that. The only battery's I am familiar with are car batteries since I am pretty big into car audio and have over 200AH worth of battery in my car.

Considering the size of the lipo battery that isn't a deciding factor, I don't want a huge battery but it doesn't need to be as small as the lipo batteries listed.

 

[wesnewell]

If money and time are an issue, you need to look at the bottom line. You can get a 48V 1000W motor kit to your door in a week from a USA supplier for under $300. You can get 15 ah of 12s lipo in about the same time for ~$250 with shipping from the USA warehouse of hobbyking.com. Or you can order from some place in China and pay twice as much with shipping. Your choice. I'm done.

 

[TotalConfusion]

Yes Lipo would be great for someone just getting into Ebikes, Imagine him running late and just flogging his Battery to get to work and once there he can lock his bike up for the day and return to this.


Read this Thread before you consider Lipo Hobby king Batterys, http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56305

I wonder what would happen with a Lipo fire and a few cases of ammunition if they ever got to mixing

 

[wesnewell]

Caused by bulk charging unattended. WTF do you expect when you act like a moron. If your iq is 2 digit, don't use rc lipo. You'll likely start a fire. However, if you have half a brain and respect the power within rc lipo you won't have a problem. IOW's don't bulk charge unattended. Don't charge unattended period.

 

[h.letchworth]

If money and time are an issue, you need to look at the bottom line. You can get a 48V 1000W motor kit to your door in a week from a USA supplier for under $300. You can get 15 ah of 12s lipo in about the same time for ~$250 with shipping from the USA warehouse of hobbyking.com. Or you can order from some place in China and pay twice as much with shipping. Your choice. I'm done.

Like I said, I'd prefer to have it sooner then later. I have no problem getting a kit like that now, I just want to make sure it will be the best. So, if not lipo what battery is preferred I've seen LiCoMn and LiFePO4 mentioned.

So as I've been looking at kits I see the mid drive and have read they are better then the hub drive, yet everyone here is running hub drive. What is the best for a simple commuter?

 

[TotalConfusion]

If I had a removable battery i would be able to charge inside of work. I do plan on peddling, but do not want to have to depend on it for my commute.

Caused by bulk charging unattended. WTF do you expect when you act like a moron. If your iq is 2 digit, don't use rc lipo. You'll likely start a fire. However, if you have half a brain and respect the power within rc lipo you won't have a problem. IOW's don't bulk charge unattended. Don't charge unattended period.

So if this guy chargers at work he will have to sit there and watch it is what your saying? Um im sorry but i dont think his boss will like that at all. Maybe he can take it with him on the ship and watch it charge from inside that. lol
All im saying is Lipo isnt a great choice for his situation, Especially in a Navy Base or inside a ship.

 

[USAEBIKECO]

Wow that lipo fire is crazy. That's for sharing the pic. I didn't know those zippy packs could so that much damage.

 

[h.letchworth]

If I had a removable battery i would be able to charge inside of work. I do plan on peddling, but do not want to have to depend on it for my commute.

Caused by bulk charging unattended. WTF do you expect when you act like a moron. If your iq is 2 digit, don't use rc lipo. You'll likely start a fire. However, if you have half a brain and respect the power within rc lipo you won't have a problem. IOW's don't bulk charge unattended. Don't charge unattended period.

So if this guy chargers at work he will have to sit there and watch it is what your saying? Um im sorry but i dont think his boss will like that at all. Maybe he can take it with him on the ship and watch it charge from inside that. lol
All im saying is Lipo isnt a great choice for his situation, Especially in a Navy Base or inside a ship.

Yeah, if lipo is as crazy as everyone says then I'm definitely not going to risk others lives for something like that. So I guess on that note Lipo should be crossed out, and replaced with something that is not as volatile.

 

[mlt34]

LiFePO4 and LiCoMn are basically going to do the same for you with the exception of LiFePO4 will be more expensive but last 2 or 3 times as long. There are some LiFePO4 makers, like A123, whose cells are more powerful, but you don't really need that extra power for the type of ebike you are looking at.

These types of aluminum case batteries would be good for you so you can easily remove it and bring into the base:

People run hubmotors instead of mid drive a) because hubmotors have been around forever and are tried and true, unlike the fairly recent new wave of mid drives (the old mid drives were crap) and b) they are simpler to set up and run, and c) they are more powerful. A standard bike chain shouldn't take more than about 1000W, and you'd have to let off the gas while shifting or risk breaking the chain (I learned that the hard way with a high power mid drive setup).

For your setup I'd recommend a hubmotor because of the ease of use, zero maintenance and cheap price (the new good mid drives, like the Bafang BBS02, are more expensive than hubmotors by about a factor of two, sometimes more).

 

[h.letchworth]

LiFePO4 and LiCoMn are basically going to do the same for you with the exception of LiFePO4 will be more expensive but last 2 or 3 times as long. There are some LiFePO4 makers, like A123, whose cells are more powerful, but you don't really need that extra power for the type of ebike you are looking at.

These types of aluminum case batteries would be good for you so you can easily remove it and bring into the base:
People run hubmotors instead of mid drive a) because hubmotors have been around forever and are tried and true, unlike the fairly recent new wave of mid drives (the old mid drives were crap) and b) they are simpler to set up and run, and c) they are more powerful. A standard bike chain shouldn't take more than about 1000W, and you'd have to let off the gas while shifting or risk breaking the chain (I learned that the hard way with a high power mid drive setup).

For your setup I'd recommend a hubmotor because of the ease of use, zero maintenance and cheap price (the new good mid drives, like the Bafang BBS02, are more expensive than hubmotors by about a factor of two, sometimes more).

I just took a quick peak is LiFEPO4 batteries, they are a bit more expensive but I love how some are in the cases like you posted. I'm not worried about bringing it into base since no one will have a clue what it is, and we have a hazmat processing area right above us and whatever battery I use will be put in my backpack for carrying it. I will look at the other battery soon.

How many AH should be looking at? My one way is 12.5 miles exact so I want to round up to 14 miles. So, should i get a battery with enough AH to go 28 miles, I will be able to charge at work every day. Honestly getting to work is the biggest part, if I a problem and I cant charge making me have to peddle alot more going home that is fine. Or would two separate batteries be better, I can leave one plugged in over night at work if needed. If only one battery my work day is 9 hours, sometimes 6 on Fridays.

Thanks for the info between hub and mid drive. I'm sure simpler would be much better for what I am trying to accomplish.

 

[wesnewell]

So if this guy chargers at work he will have to sit there and watch it is what your saying? Um im sorry but i dont think his boss will like that at all. Maybe he can take it with him on the ship and watch it charge from inside that. lol
All im saying is Lipo isnt a great choice for his situation, Especially in a Navy Base or inside a ship.

No, you don't have to watch it continuously, but don't leave any battery charging without checking it periodically. I've been charging rc lipo for over 3 years now. I've bulk charged with a charger that would overcharge cells to 4.3V, but I never let them get that high. Most times I use an rc charger that will limit cell voltage to whatever I set it at, typically 4.2V. In all this time with hundreds of charges, I've never had even a puffed cell. And if he works on a ship, there's a lot more dangerous stuff around than rc lipo. As long as you use common sense precautions rc lipo is perfectly safe. Overcharge it to 5V and it might catch on fire. Over discharge it and it might start a fire. Drive a screwdriver through it and it might catch on fire. But this won't happen every time either.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27241

 

[mlt34]

you can get both LiFePO4 and NiMnCo in those aluminum cases, so that shouldn't affect your decision. The advantage of the case batteries that i mentioned for bringing them inside isn't so much the appearance as the fact that they are designed to be easily removable from the bike. You can batteries in shrink wrap (PingBattery for example, google it) that needs to go into a bag or box on the bike. The aluminum ones are just easier to mount and remove for charging purposes.

Personally I'd recommend planning enough battery for both ways. The days you can't charge you'll thank yourself. And you are saying you can pedal home now, but surely there will be some long days that you'll REALLY wish you had some battery left.

With most medium power setups 1000W or less I think 48V15AH should be enough. Once you have chosen your exact motor and controller (or kit) we can help you get a more exact estimation of precisely how far each battery can help you go. You can use the ebike simulator at ebikes.ca to do some rough calculations too. google it (running out the door and can't search the link)

 

[h.letchworth]

No, you don't have to watch it continuously, but don't leave any battery charging without checking it periodically. I've been charging rc lipo for over 3 years now. I've bulk charged with a charger that would overcharge cells to 4.3V, but I never let them get that high. Most times I use an rc charger that will limit cell voltage to whatever I set it at, typically 4.2V.

So having a charger that you can set the voltage is really the life saver here? When charging the lipo you'd set the voltage to charge at then wait for it to get to full capacity? I'd assume the charger would have a volt meter so you could see, or do you set up your own volt meter to monitor the cells?

you can get both LiFePO4 and NiMnCo in those aluminum cases, so that shouldn't affect your decision. The advantage of the case batteries that i mentioned for bringing them inside isn't so much the appearance as the fact that they are designed to be easily removable from the bike. You can batteries in shrink wrap (PingBattery for example, google it) that needs to go into a bag or box on the bike. The aluminum ones are just easier to mount and remove for charging purposes.

Personally I'd recommend planning enough battery for both ways. The days you can't charge you'll thank yourself. And you are saying you can pedal home now, but surely there will be some long days that you'll REALLY wish you had some battery left.

With most medium power setups 1000W or less I think 48V15AH should be enough. Once you have chosen your exact motor and controller (or kit) we can help you get a more exact estimation of precisely how far each battery can help you go. You can use the ebike simulator at ebikes.ca to do some rough calculations too. google it (running out the door and can't search the link)

If I was to get a battery that would last me round trip then removal and charging on the ship would be factored out, but could still be done if needed. That would also cut out any chances of the battery being left alone to charge. I would love to have a battery that was in the middle of the triangle but one that sits on a back rack is fine too.

As far as motor and controller, someone just point me to a reliable kit. Something that a few people use with good results and I will make that the one I will get.

 

[mlt34]

battery in the front triangle is my favorite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCW2dLrYaXg

Keeps the weight nice and centered.

It's a bit limiting on battery size though, since you'll need a big enough bag to hold it. The problem is even big triangle bags can't fit that big of a rectangle in them. Like in the video I made above, that 48V10AH ping barely squeezes in. That's LiFePO4 though. A LiCoMn type battery might get 48V15AH in that type of bag.